Help Bladebound / Kensai Magus


Advice


Hello Everyone

I have not played D&D since 2nd edition and getting back together with friends that have been. We are playing in a homebrew campaign and we are allowed Paizo books only and must be PFS legal. The DM did a lot of hack 'n' slash growing up, but now that he's an adult maybe we'll do more role play. I am running with an Invulnerable rager/ Urban Barbarian and a Guide/Skirmisher Ranger that will probably be optimized. Might have another join that will probably be a druid of some type. I am rolling a Bladebound/Kensai Magus because I want a Jedi, kind of. This is where I need the help, please. I have read the many guides and posts on similar builds (many thanks to all those that have posted); blows my mind how we got by in the 90's.

My only requirement is that I don't do the Dervish Dance cheese train. Other than that tear me a new one.

Race: Human
Class Bonus: +1/4 arcane pool
Traits: Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp), Seeker (for role-playing)

We rolled 4d6 drop 1's and my battletech headshot dice did not let me down. I actually rolled 18, 18, 18, 18, 17, 15, but the other guys felt bad so I had to give them some points to balance things out.

Str 18
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 18 + 2 (racial) = 20, +1 at levels 4/8/12/16
Wis 13, +1 at level 20
Cha 10

AC: 15 (10 + 3 dex + 1 uncanny dodge + 1 Silken Ceremonial Armor)
HP: 13

Weapons: Katana, light crossbow

Feats/Arcana:
1) Human: Toughness, Kensai: Weapon Focus (Katana), Arcane Strike
3) Power Attack, Black Blade
5) Magus: Intensified Spell, Elemental Spell
6) Arcana: Arcane Accuracy
7) Weapon Specialization (Katana)
9) Extra Arcana: Empower Spell
11) Magus: Greater Weapon Focus (Katana), Improved Critical (Katana)
12) Arcana: Maximized Spell
13) Quicken Spell
15) Spell Perfection, Arcana: Bane
17) Critical Focus, Critical Versatility
18) Arcana: quicken spell
19) Extra Arcana: Spell Blending (Heroism, Enervation?)

Spells:
0: Detect magic, Ray of Frost
1: Shocking Grasp, Shield

Questions:
1) Does this build meet the Paizo book and PFS legal requirements? I am getting a little confused. His example was summoner is in Paizo but not PFS legal so I couldn't be one. And I think that means even if a 3rd party book is allowed in PFS it is not allowed here.

2) Is the build correct as far as feat and arcana progression go? Did I meet all the requirements?

3) Have I tried to do too much trying to land critical feats and spell perfection?

Thanks in advance.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Magus guide, at your service.

In brief:

  • Rolling for stats isn't PFS legal, you need to use point buy for that.
  • Arcane strike is not a good choice for the Magus, because you have better things to spend your minor action on (the Magus has a lot of abilities using minor actions, not even counting items yet).
  • You'll get more mileage out of boosting your strength (with your racial and every fourth level) than your int.
  • Forget about the crossbow, you've got spells for that. If need be, a wand of magic missile will deal more average damage in your hands than any kind of bow.
  • And finally, while Bladebound is great at all levels, Kensai is not actually very good until level ten or so. If most of your campaign will play below that (like e.g. PFS), I recommend other archetypes instead.

HTH!


Arcane Mark is an excellent cantrip for a magus, better than Ray of Frost.

Personally, I would swap Flamboyant Arcana for Arcane Accuracy at 6. Being able to Parry will help with your survivability and Arcane Accuracy tends to be overkill.

I'd pass on Critical Versatility for Extra Arcane Pool. Not many of the critical feats are impressive. If you want to crit-fish I'd recommend dropping Critical Focus and Improved Critical for Combat Expertise and Butterfly Sting. This'll give you better control of landing your critical with your Spellstrike. Improved Critical is unnecessary because you can use your Arcane Pool to add Keen to your weapon. Critical Focus usually isn't necessary because, again, Magi don't really have a problem landing hits.


Ejderha wrote:

Questions:

1) Does this build meet the Paizo book and PFS legal requirements? I am getting a little confused. His example was summoner is in Paizo but not PFS legal so I couldn't be one. And I think that means even if a 3rd party book is allowed in PFS it is not allowed here.

Summoner has been PFS legal since it was invented, although the legal version has changed. First it was the playtest version, then the version from the Advanced Player's Guide, and now the Pathfinder Unchained version. Third party materials are never PFS legal. You can find a list of the allowed additional materials here.


Thanks for the advice. I'll look into your comments. As far as PFS rules go, I don't really know what's going on I just do what I'm told.


Ejderha wrote:

Apparently, asking too many questions and using the message board was against the rules and the DM rage quit. Never fear we have a new DM. After reading Kurald's Magus Guide, Str Ranger's Hex guide, and Walter's Magus Guide, again, I decided to drop Kensai for Hexcrafter. Here's the new build:

Bladebound/Hexcrafter Magus
Race: Human
Class Bonus: +1/4 arcane pool
Traits: Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp), Reactionary

25 point buy, after racials 1 score min 8/negative modifier and 1 score max 20, start with 150 gp

Str 14
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 17 + 2 (racial) = 19, +1 at levels 4/8/12/16/20
Wis 12
Cha 8

AC: 15 (10 + 1 dex + 4 Chain Shirt)
HP: 13

Weapons: Longsword (I know this is not optimal, but I still can't stand the idea of scimitar or dervish dance)

Feats/Arcana:
1) Human: Toughness, Combat Reflexes (for flamboyant arcana)
3) Power Attack, Black Blade
4) Hex: Slumber
5) Magus: Intensified Spell, Extra Arcana: Hex: Flight
6) Arcana: Flamboyant Arcana (Thinking about switching this out for Shield Spell and then changing combat reflexes for something else.)
7) Extra Arcana: Arcane Accuracy (to mitigate power attack)
9) Weapon Focus, Arcana: Empower Magic
11) Dazing Spell, Improved Critical (To save arcane pool)
12) Hex: Ice Tomb
13) Quicken Spell, Arcana: Maximized Magic
15) Spell Perfection, Arcana: Bane
17) Greater Weapon Focus, Extra Arcana: Quicken Magic
18) Arcana: Hex: Summon Spirit
19) Spell Penetration

Spells:
0: Detect magic, Ray of Frost, Light
1: Shocking Grasp, Shield

I'll grab Arcane Mark when I get Level 2 when it has a purpose.

Anything you see bad or wrong?


Ejderha wrote:
Anything you see bad or wrong?

Technically if it's PFS legal, I don't think you can stack Hexcrafter & Bladebound.

I recently found this out Here.

A lot of people are totally ok with these 2 stacking though, so check with your DM.

Grand Lodge

Johnnycat93 wrote:

Arcane Mark is an excellent cantrip for a magus, better than Ray of Frost.

Personally, I would swap Flamboyant Arcana for Arcane Accuracy at 6. Being able to Parry will help with your survivability and Arcane Accuracy tends to be overkill.

I'd pass on Critical Versatility for Extra Arcane Pool. Not many of the critical feats are impressive. If you want to crit-fish I'd recommend dropping Critical Focus and Improved Critical for Combat Expertise and Butterfly Sting. This'll give you better control of landing your critical with your Spellstrike. Improved Critical is unnecessary because you can use your Arcane Pool to add Keen to your weapon. Critical Focus usually isn't necessary because, again, Magi don't really have a problem landing hits.

Only swashbucklers can parry. Flamboyant arcana no longer grants that ability.


MrCharisma wrote:
Ejderha wrote:
Anything you see bad or wrong?

Technically if it's PFS legal, I don't think you can stack Hexcrafter & Bladebound.

I recently found this out Here.

A lot of people are totally ok with these 2 stacking though, so check with your DM.

Crap....I'll check with the DM.


claudekennilol wrote:
Johnnycat93 wrote:

Arcane Mark is an excellent cantrip for a magus, better than Ray of Frost.

Personally, I would swap Flamboyant Arcana for Arcane Accuracy at 6. Being able to Parry will help with your survivability and Arcane Accuracy tends to be overkill.

I'd pass on Critical Versatility for Extra Arcane Pool. Not many of the critical feats are impressive. If you want to crit-fish I'd recommend dropping Critical Focus and Improved Critical for Combat Expertise and Butterfly Sting. This'll give you better control of landing your critical with your Spellstrike. Improved Critical is unnecessary because you can use your Arcane Pool to add Keen to your weapon. Critical Focus usually isn't necessary because, again, Magi don't really have a problem landing hits.

Only swashbucklers can parry. Flamboyant arcana no longer grants that ability.

Would you go with Shield Spell instead? That seems to be the alternative.


claudekennilol wrote:
Johnnycat93 wrote:

Arcane Mark is an excellent cantrip for a magus, better than Ray of Frost.

Personally, I would swap Flamboyant Arcana for Arcane Accuracy at 6. Being able to Parry will help with your survivability and Arcane Accuracy tends to be overkill.

I'd pass on Critical Versatility for Extra Arcane Pool. Not many of the critical feats are impressive. If you want to crit-fish I'd recommend dropping Critical Focus and Improved Critical for Combat Expertise and Butterfly Sting. This'll give you better control of landing your critical with your Spellstrike. Improved Critical is unnecessary because you can use your Arcane Pool to add Keen to your weapon. Critical Focus usually isn't necessary because, again, Magi don't really have a problem landing hits.

Only swashbucklers can parry. Flamboyant arcana no longer grants that ability.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sk9u?So-now-that-precise-strike-is-off-the-tab le

WHAT?!?!


Ejderha wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
Johnnycat93 wrote:

Arcane Mark is an excellent cantrip for a magus, better than Ray of Frost.

Personally, I would swap Flamboyant Arcana for Arcane Accuracy at 6. Being able to Parry will help with your survivability and Arcane Accuracy tends to be overkill.

I'd pass on Critical Versatility for Extra Arcane Pool. Not many of the critical feats are impressive. If you want to crit-fish I'd recommend dropping Critical Focus and Improved Critical for Combat Expertise and Butterfly Sting. This'll give you better control of landing your critical with your Spellstrike. Improved Critical is unnecessary because you can use your Arcane Pool to add Keen to your weapon. Critical Focus usually isn't necessary because, again, Magi don't really have a problem landing hits.

Only swashbucklers can parry. Flamboyant arcana no longer grants that ability.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sk9u?So-now-that-precise-strike-is-off-the-tab le

WHAT?!?!

They were changed in the 2nd edition of the ACG.


With the new GM does everything still have to be PFS legal?


claudekennilol wrote:
Only swashbucklers can parry. Flamboyant arcana no longer grants that ability.

Just wanted to double check - My reading is that a magus with Flamboyant Arcana can still Parry, but can't Riposte. Am I missing something?

(I know it's a LOT less useful without the Riposte, I just wanted to check I wasn't missing something)


Ejderha wrote:

11) Dazing Spell, Improved Critical (To save arcane pool)

Anything you see bad or wrong?

Just noticed this as well. I don't know what you mean "to save arcane pool".

Just to make sure you're doing it correctly, a lvl 11 Magus spends 1 arcane pool point to get a +3 bonus to their weapon.

This bonus can be spent as:
- a +3 enhancement;
- a +2 enhancement and a special ability (such as keen) which is worth a +1 enhancement;
- a +1 enhancement, and 1 or 2 special abilities with a total enhancement of +2 (such as flaming+keen, or flaming-burst);
- (or if the weapon already has a +1 enhancement) spent as 1, 2 or 3 special abilities with a total worth of +3 enhancement bonuses (such as flaming+shocking+keen, or flaming burst+keen, or speed).

Also (if you do manage to get the bladebound-hexcrafter) a black blade should automatically have a +3 enhancement bonus by level 11, which means (since you can't enhance your weapon past +5) you can spend 1 arcane point and end up with a +5 keen weapon (+3 Black blade, Arcane pool for +2 & keen).

Improved critical isn't a bad feat at all, but unless there's another ability you want to use, this is a class that doesn't really need it.

Sorry this post is way longer than I intended =P

Edit: Edited to add examples. Sorry if it comes off as patronising, I just wanted to make sure I'm 100% clear.


MrCharisma wrote:
Ejderha wrote:

11) Dazing Spell, Improved Critical (To save arcane pool)

Anything you see bad or wrong?

Just noticed this as well. I don't know what you mean "to save arcane pool".

Just to make sure you're doing it correctly, a lvl 11 Magus spends 1 arcane pool point to get a +3 bonus to their weapon.

This bonus can be spent as:
- a +3 enhancement;
- a +2 enhancement and a special ability (such as keen) which is worth a +1 enhancement;
- a +1 enhancement, and 1 or 2 special abilities with a total enhancement of +2 (such as flaming+keen, or flaming-burst);
- (or if the weapon already has a +1 enhancement) spent as 1, 2 or 3 special abilities with a total worth of +3 enhancement bonuses (such as flaming+shocking+keen, or flaming burst+keen, or speed).

Also (if you do manage to get the bladebound-hexcrafter) a black blade should automatically have a +3 enhancement bonus by level 11, which means (since you can't enhance your weapon past +5) you can spend 1 arcane point and end up with a +5 keen weapon (+3 Black blade, Arcane pool for +2 & keen).

Improved critical isn't a bad feat at all, but unless there's another ability you want to use, this is a class that doesn't really need it.

Sorry this post is way longer than I intended =P

Edit: Edited to add examples. Sorry if it comes off as patronising, I just wanted to make sure I'm 100% clear.

I must have completely read the ability wrong. I thought you had to se 3 arcane points to get a +3 weapon. Thanks. Will sub this out for a new feat.

And no worries about being patronising. It's the internet. You can't read emotion so I try not to read too much into things.


Ejderha wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:
Ejderha wrote:
Anything you see bad or wrong?

Technically if it's PFS legal, I don't think you can stack Hexcrafter & Bladebound.

I recently found this out Here.

A lot of people are totally ok with these 2 stacking though, so check with your DM.

Crap....I'll check with the DM.

Looks like the DM will let me go ahead with Bladebound/Hexcrafter because it adds an ability and doesn't really change the ability.


WombattheDaniel wrote:
With the new GM does everything still have to be PFS legal?

He seems to be going on a case by case basis, but I'm going to try to stay as legal as possible. I did get permission to keep my Bladebound/Hexcrafter build though.


MrCharisma wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
Only swashbucklers can parry. Flamboyant arcana no longer grants that ability.

Just wanted to double check - My reading is that a magus with Flamboyant Arcana can still Parry, but can't Riposte. Am I missing something?

(I know it's a LOT less useful without the Riposte, I just wanted to check I wasn't missing something)

Flamboyant Arcana still lets you use both Parry and Riposte. They altered it so that you can't use it to regain "Panache" or get more from other sources like Amateur Swashbuckler. So you are spending precious Arcane Pool points with no way to get them back. This makes it too expensive to use in most circumstances.

Arcane Deed, the Arcana that follows Flamboyant Arcana got altered so that Precise Strike no longer works. For this Arcana, you don't count as having at least one point of
Panache and your Swashbuckler level is considered to be zero. (Note that this language was not present in Flambuoyant Arcana so Riposte gained with F.A. still works.) these changes mean that you can only benefit from a few Deeds. Precise Strike was the big loss here.


Gisher wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
Only swashbucklers can parry. Flamboyant arcana no longer grants that ability.

Just wanted to double check - My reading is that a magus with Flamboyant Arcana can still Parry, but can't Riposte. Am I missing something?

(I know it's a LOT less useful without the Riposte, I just wanted to check I wasn't missing something)

Flamboyant Arcana still lets you use both Parry and Riposte. They altered it so that you can't use it to regain "Panache" or get more from other sources like Amateur Swashbuckler. So you are spending precious Arcane Pool points with no way to get them back. This makes it too expensive to use in most circumstances.

Arcane Deed, the Arcana that follows Flamboyant Arcana got altered so that Precise Strike no longer works. For this Arcana, you don't count as having at least one point of
Panache and your Swashbuckler level is considered to be zero. (Note that this language was not present in Flambuoyant Arcana so Riposte gained with F.A. still works.) these changes mean that you can only benefit from a few Deeds. Precise Strike was the big loss here.

Looks like you're right. I was remembering text from somewhere saying the magus was considered to have 0 panache points. Either they changed it or I'm just remembering it wrong. Good to know =)


MrCharisma wrote:
Looks like you're right. I was remembering text from somewhere saying the magus was considered to have 0 panache points. Either they changed it or I'm just remembering it wrong. Good to know =)

You're thinking of the language from Arcane Deed.

Quote:
Arcane Deed (Ex): When a magus takes this arcana, he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler's deeds class feature, as long as that deed can be used by a swashbuckler of his magus level. The magus can use that deed by using points from his arcane pool as the panache points required for that deed. Even if he gains a panache pool through another means, the magus is not considered to have at least 1 point in his panache pool for the purpose of deeds selected with arcane deed, and his effective swashbuckler level for determining such a deed's effect is 0. A magus can take this arcana multiple times, each time gaining a new deed. The magus must have flamboyant arcana (see below) to select this arcana.

Flamboyant Arcana lacks such language. They changed so many things at once that it is hard to keep track. I've gotten them confused a few times.

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