Banned Magic for City


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I'm currently designing a city for a campaign that I'm running, and recently started to think about the topic of magic. While magic is certainly a potent tool, many spells seem to have great potential to be abused for criminal activities. As such, I'm thinking about having the city imposed regulations on the production and use of certain types of magic. Naturally, this is a subject of heated debate among the citizens, with many desiring more/less restrictions.

As such my question is, What spells do you think that a reasonably lawful city would try to restrict in order to lessen crime?

Currently, the city does not ban merely knowing spells or having them listed in a spellbook. However, it does make it illegal to manufacture, own, or possess magic items capable of creating the spell's effects (potions, scrolls, wands, etc.) and adds an additional criminal charge for using banned magic to aid in illegal activity.

What I've currently thought as being banned in the city:
-Spells that prevent alignment detection (Undetectable Alignment, Misdirection, Nondetection)
-Spells that give the user invisibility (Vanish, Invisibility, Invisibility Sphere)
-Magical Compulsion (Charm Person, Suggestion, Dominate Person)
-Knock (restricted to law officials only)
-Secret Sign
-Vacuous Vessel


I'd go a different route - what specific spells are allowed? They might just go with a very small list of allowed magic instead of a very long list of banned magic. Healing magic, abjuration, conjuration(creation), and non-damaging cantrips are fine.

If you want to go the route of the banned list, I'd imagine the city banning basically all divination, necromancy, evocation, conjuration(summoning), enchantment, and illusion magic.


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MeanMutton wrote:

I'd go a different route - what specific spells are allowed? They might just go with a very small list of allowed magic instead of a very long list of banned magic. Healing magic, abjuration, conjuration(creation), and non-damaging cantrips are fine.

If you want to go the route of the banned list, I'd imagine the city banning basically all divination, necromancy, evocation, conjuration(summoning), enchantment, and illusion magic.

Was just thinking along those lines basically.

Also what you could do, is ban all magic unless the practitioner has a some sort of Writ from the local government that will expressly list the types of magic or specific spells. I think this would allow some of the "trusted" citizens to use some of the more destructive spells or divinations and the like.


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I agree with the list that you have so far, and would add:
- Damaging spells, specifically ones that have an AoE. A misused fireball could kill 20+ bystanders, easily. And given that a child could accidently set a wand of fireball off, doubly so.
- Exploding Runes, and other magical traps.
- Disguise Self, and other spells that hide your identity.
- Necromancy that creates non-mindless undead, at minimum. Especially if it creates a "spawning" undead: those would be treated like a bioweapon in modern times.
- Items that grant "Wish/Miracle" functions without requiring a necessary amount of magical power. Ring of Three Wishes, for example.
- Planar Binding, and it's derivatives.
- Create Mindscape, and it's derivatives.

Edit Very Ninja'd


You might also go the route of having magic being licensed. Practitioners who wish to be allowed to use their magic (usually for commercial purposes) must register themselves with the constabulary (which is full of spell casters dedicated to protecting the civic order). This registry could be so restrictive as to require anyone capable of spell casting to register, with different levels of licensing based on what they intend to do while in the city. The license should be represented as something obvious like a large and distinctive amulet which must be displayed at all times. Consequently, law abiding citizens who witness spell casting by someone not displaying the appropriate license would be highly likely to report to the constabulary.

A caster merely passing through would only have to pay a pittance, while a bard intending to perform and earn a living in the town would have to pay more. An adventurer planning on staying in the town, doing magical research, and creating a couple magic items would have to pay even more. (And, so on, of course.)

Failure to adhere to the restrictions required by the specific license purchased would have a range of penalties from fine to jail time.

There are a lot of interesting directions you could go with this. Obviously, this city would have to be very lawful. The city constabulary probably has at least one spell caster with every patrol. The jails probably have anti-magic zones or other things to restrict the ability of jailed spell casters. There is possibly even a "secret police" body that try to seek out illicit spell casting.

To the original question, there are lots of things that would probably be forbidden or restricted in the city.

Teleportation magic would likely be restricted to entrance and egress from specific locations so people aren't popping in and out from just anywhere, and also makes sure that licensing is properly paid.

Divination magic would probably be restricted to protect the privacy of the population (primarily the privacy of the rich and powerful).

Any destructive magic would likely have restrictions, maybe with allowances for self defense, but not providing protection from collateral damage. If you toss a fireball at a street gang, you won't get in trouble for using the fireball, but you will be liable for setting that building on fire, for example.

The more I think about it, taken to the extreme, I can't think of any sort of spell casting that wouldn't have at least some sort of restrictions place upon it.


^Prestidigiatation?
^Cure and Heal?


You might be better to go with only registered and certified casters are allowed. Anyone else using magic is a criminal with harsh penalties.


The old Mystara setting had notes on banned spells, Night's Dark Terror - City of Kelvin(primarily wizards restricted), Mark of Amber(magocracy-primarily clerics restricted). I had not thought of those restrictions in a while now...


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Ultimate Intrigue has some spells to police the use of magic in your city, and hide from the police. Detect Magic, Greater lets you see spell signatures so that you can tell who cast a given spell/residue, and Magic Aura, Greater, let's you disguise a spell signature.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
You might be better to go with only registered and certified casters are allowed. Anyone else using magic is a criminal with harsh penalties.

If you think through how a society would eventually clamp down on these kind of things its the natural progression. At some point, its easier for governmental control to go 0 tolerance, and only "State Sanctioned" magic is allowed.

While not outlawed, the inn my group has taken up as their home-base is very non-tolerant of casting - its become a bit of a "schtick" the female owner tosses out. "You don't come in here with mud on them boots...and don't be doing any hocus-pocus either."

There are some real adventure and hook opportunities behind something like this. PCs could be either involved, become involved, or be asked to root out things like:

Underground guilds
Blackmarket components (selling, procuring, smuggling into the city)
Spell-books
Sorcerer disguises


Who's going to enforce it, and what kind of training do they have?


GM 1990 wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
You might be better to go with only registered and certified casters are allowed. Anyone else using magic is a criminal with harsh penalties.

If you think through how a society would eventually clamp down on these kind of things its the natural progression. At some point, its easier for governmental control to go 0 tolerance, and only "State Sanctioned" magic is allowed.

While not outlawed, the inn my group has taken up as their home-base is very non-tolerant of casting - its become a bit of a "schtick" the female owner tosses out. "You don't come in here with mud on them boots...and don't be doing any hocus-pocus either."

There are some real adventure and hook opportunities behind something like this. PCs could be either involved, become involved, or be asked to root out things like:

Underground guilds
Blackmarket components (selling, procuring, smuggling into the city)
Spell-books
Sorcerer disguises

I think we're on the same page. However, I generally have a problem with City/States that have a no magic policy. Quite frankly, if the offending caster is of sufficient level and the city/state has no magic of it's own then the city/state is screwed. Seriously. Level 20 mage (because why not) can easily level or conquer such a place. Gate in a few Balors then sit back and watch the fireworks.

It's more feasible if the city/state has it's own casters to help regulate magic as opposed to banning it.


Manly-man teapot wrote:
Who's going to enforce it, and what kind of training do they have?

Yeah, this is the key question. How many wizards want to die to (try to) prevent other wizards from casting spells on non-wizards?


Thank you all for the ideas so far.

While there is certainly the ability to go very restrictive with this, that is a route that I'm trying to avoid both for story/gameplay purposes.

The thing that most concerns the city's law officials is more subtle magic that allows one to either hide from the law, or commit crimes in a way that is harder to detect/punish. While there are certainly worries about something like a fireball going off - it is relatively easy to identify/punish and individual responsible, just like if a high-level Fighter pulled out their sword and started swinging at people.

Also, to put some perspective on why the city isn't being more restrictive - the developing city is located on a river trading route in a fairly undeveloped/dangerous region of the world. Banning too much magic would greatly limit the purchase/sale of magic items and keep many traders away - crippling the city's economy as a result. Adventurers and others who are able to wield dangerous magic are also highly useful to both help defend the city and to use the city as a base to explore the region and recover artifacts that they'll then sell through the city's markets (providing profit to the merchants as a result). Finally, there are powerful and influential groups in the city who are invested in the idea of having LESS magic restrictions (Mage Academy, Church worshipping Goddess of Illusions, etc.)

In all, the magic that the city bans is less of an ideal state for law officials and more of a compromise that tries to let them ban the more egregious examples of magic that can be used for crimes while still maintaining (relatively) good terms with influential organizations (merchants/churches/etc.) that wish for less restrictions.

GM 1990 wrote:

There are some real adventure and hook opportunities behind something like this. PCs could be either involved, become involved, or be asked to root out things like:

Underground guilds
Blackmarket components (selling, procuring, smuggling into the city)
Spell-books
Sorcerer disguises

Hit the nail on the head there. One of the things that inspired me to think about this was the result of planning out a Black Market that the PCs would be introduced to / deal with frequently and wondering what type of illegal things they'd be offering - which of course lead me to think about what the city would view as law-breaking and why.

Manly-man teapot wrote:
Who's going to enforce it, and what kind of training do they have?

Still fully deciding on this and am open to altering it depending on how the rest of my plans go.

Current ideas: depending on the area of the city - enforcement will primarily be done by city guards at various levels of training (better trained/more accomplished near the noble areas, less trained near the slums) and Paladins + Inquisitors from one of the city's more influential Churches. As far as wizards go - some of the better trained guards would have at least some magical training to help identify/combat spellcasters, but there would probably be rather few dedicated spellcasters among them [The city as a whole isn't large enough to have many people capable of throwing around the highest level of spells. The total amount of people capable of 4th-5th level spells is rather small.]


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Manly-man teapot wrote:
Who's going to enforce it, and what kind of training do they have?

An interesting way to go about it, is that the City in question is ancient and has magic's that help the local government enforce this law (and by this point long tradition) of monitoring magic use (think CCTV, but for magic in a city). Obviously this would be artifact level device and could be the hook for a number of possible adventures (removing, protecting or retrieving said device).

Ideally, that would then limit the number of wizards necessary to enforce the actual laws.

Seeing how this would likely be a Lawful city, it could have a major magic school/university. The School has an agreement that each Staff Member, student and employee capable of casting magic must spend X days/year (or pick a time frame) assisting in monitoring and working with the city guard to enforce the laws of the city. The city could also "Call Up" the School (or Particular members) in certain circumstances (say "Call Up" the Headmaster when a high level magic-user goes rogue).

For this to work, the school would obviously also need to get something out of this deal beyond just being in the City.

EDIT: OP Posted right before I did, figured I'd add my thoughts to my post.

Charon Onozuka wrote:
Finally, there are powerful and influential groups in the city who are invested in the idea of having LESS magic restrictions (Mage Academy, Church worshipping Goddess of Illusions, etc.)

I think that what some of those organizations would like is a more restrictive measure, but they are the few that can use magic within the community and that gives them standing, as the more freedom the organization is to use magic, the higher its standing is with the Local Government maybe.

As for the merchant and trade portion, most(in a generic Fantasy setting) of regular trade is mundane. Magic trade, while lucrative takes a lot of start-up capital and time so most merchants do not normally deal in magic.

Adventurers and the like could still be offered large bounties, luring them out to the city, but then when selling magical items might need to do it through one of the official magical organizations in the city.


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What I have done in the past:


  • Licenses for casters in general.
  • Self defense permits available.
    Self defense covers non-permanent "debuffs" or save or suck spells like sleep, color spray, blindness/deafness, and hold person. There is a court review afterward that tends to be mostly a formality (magical defense lawyers are about 10~1000 gold a case depending on the circumstances).
  • Comerical use of spells is a specialty permit with provisions by school, and use.
  • Magical item sales are tracked to the buyer through specialized use of arcane mark (specialty use of detect magic to read), items brought in are marked to you on entrance. Ownership is generally not an issue but usage has to stay within the above.
  • magic use is generally an aggravating circumstance for crimes.
  • research is generally allowed, but a research page with general outlines is submitted to the proper department and you are licensed.

When I need to do a flat ban I ban actions or outcomes instead of spells.


  • No creating undead without a specialized permit and the prior consent of the living creature/body's owner.
  • No spells of mass destruction or indiscriminate targeting.
  • The use of magic to compel another is forbidden.


Yeah, if I were in control of a lawful city I would simply say that all magic was illegal unless you had the proper license to practice it.

Spell casters would probably have to register themselves entering the city and could all be suspected if any crime is committed which used magic.


Manly-man teapot wrote:
Who's going to enforce it, and what kind of training do they have?

In an evil setting, it would be power hungry casters seeking to either protect or advance their position in the hierarchy. They demonstrate their competence and worth for a higher position by bringing magical criminals in for justice.

In a good setting, it would be similar, but the casters in question would be dedicated to protecting the populace in the means that seems the most appropriate to them.

In either case, this type of city would need a very strong and highly organized (not to mention large) group of casters of all stripes (not merely wizards). To be successful in any meaningful way, this magical constabulary would have to be an organization of such strength that no single (or even small group) of outlaw casters could hope to meaningfully oppose. It would be an organization of such strength that only their own principals would stand between the organization and regional domination.

(Literature has plenty of examples of this type of thing. The Jedi weren't the Republic's government, but policed use of the force. In the Recluce series of novels, one of the nations required all users of what passed for magic in that world to work for the government or be killed/sentenced to life at hard labor. Etc.)


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Even within lawful there is a range. From everything not prohibited is compulsory to heavy regulation and licensing for most activities to robust yet sensible prohibition on certain actives, possibly with increased penalties for particular methods.

I suspect if you want to build a city your players will want to interact with for an extended period of time, instead of their primary goal being to try to get away from it, the last option will serve you best.

In the case of magic, certain spells such as mind control and (if the city is also good) things like animate dead would be banned entirely. Basically, any magic that would by its nature be only used to commit a crime would be banned. That list, outside of enchantments and necromancy, would probably be pretty small.

Most magic though would just cause an increased penalty if used to commit a crime as you mentioned. Having the magic, whether a spell or an item wouldn't be illegal, and even using it in many cases wouldn't, but if you use it for an illegal action, you a going to be penalized quite a bit.

If a character goes invisible to walk down the street, no harm no foul. But if he uses it to break into a house or be a peeping tom, in addition to the penalty for the crime itself, their will be additional penalties for the use of magic.

From a slightly meta perspective, this will help with keeping things a bit more even for everyone. If owning a potion of invisibility (or even buying one) isn't a crime than the fighter can have the potential to break in invisibly without just having that potential be a crime, just like the wizard could in your original supposition (where it isn't a crime to know a spell, just to use it.) The poor fighter already has to pay to have such an ability, adding it be a crime on top of it that really isn't fair.

Secondly, it makes the city a far more attractive base for adventuring outside of it. If the alchemist can brew some potions while at his home in the city, to use when he is exploring the dungeon of death a couple days away, he is much more likely to want to live in that city than if he can't.

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It's best not to think of specific spells and go towards specific effects.

Evocation spells are nasty, but highly visible, unsubtle, easy to fight and blame.

THe spells that cause real trouble are those that are intrigue based. These include many divinations, any form of dimensional travel, summonings, and enchantment/charm magic.

Divinations allow things to be found out which you don't want others to know. This includes both noble and state secrets. Thus, blocking divination spells over level 1 is highly advisable for any city. that allows detection of evil, magic, disease, poison, and a bunch of useful effects, without allowing esp and scrying in any form.

Precedent: 1e Censer of Thaumaturgy, within its area of effect, if lit by a non-caster, no magic that cannot be cast by a level caster can take effect.

Dimensional magicks are military disasters waiting to happen. From alien beings summoning in helpers, to criminals teleporting away to escape justice, to lack of border controls and awareness, to infiltration by ethereal spies and incorporeal foes, to dimensional containers hiding goods to aid smuggling and avoid taxes, dimensional magic is a total headache.

Precedent: The Weirdstone from 2e's Volo's guide to all things magical made dimensional spells and magic impossible within the 1 mile area of effect. Extend it to magic items and you have an ideal city-wide protection. Forbiddance and Proofs against teleportation also exist as spells.
keeping out supernatural creatures can be done with something as simple as a Circle of Protection executed around the city, making entry in the city nigh impossible.

Flying magic would basically render conventional protections irrelevant. The amount of powerful monsters that can fly would be as dangerous as those that can teleport. Magic that stops unnatural flight would by a by word for defense on any township...and if they are serious, against any creature with burrowing or earthglide, as well.

Wingbind and other spells have existed which brought down flying creatures. Make them lower level spells, and you're good.

Enchantment/Charm spells will destroy a society from within, especially if used against the leaders and wealthy of a society. A citywide Prot/Evil variant would effectively neutralize all charms magic and effectively prevent them from manifesting. Simply banning the entire school of magic via city wide wards will likely not get much opposition.

Illusions themselves are not immediately harmful, but fall into misusable spells. The best defense against them is simple mass area spells which react to active magic, as such are buff spells and rely on durations. If all active spells are effectively surrounded by a faint faerie fire, ala Continual Faerie Fire, the usefulness of invisibility, illusions and transformative spells to misdirect and be abused is severely curtailed, and someone walking around under the aegis of multiple spells is going to stand out like a lightbulb.

Necromantic spells will probably simply be outlawed, and those who mess with the dead hunted like dogs. However, the best defense against these is simply to make easy and free complete disposal of bodies. This could be anything from a permanent wall of fire to a disintegration bin that doubles as the city's junkyard and sewage disposal. With no corpses, legions of undead aren't going to be made, and necromantic attack spells are no worse then evocations when it comes down to it (if creepier).

The option of complete non-casting except in the hands of permitted individuals is also entirely possible. The 1/2E spell Spell Engine did exactly this. Within its area of effect, no spellcasting or magic item activation was possible, and the spell was permanent unless the center was hit by a magical item, destroying both. It cost nothing to set up and had a wide area of effect. Casting multiples of them to blanket the town basically shuts down all spellcasters...and even has the nice side effect of helping people sleep and regain spells more easily.
Couple this with a magic item attuned to each spell engine that, for instance, generates 12 rings every day which can be worn to give immunity to that Engine's effects, and last until the next morning. You have basically a thief-proof system of only allowing permitted casters to wield magic in specific Engine zones.

Lastly, you have the Faerun alternative of a citywide dead magic or anti-magic zone, effectively turning most of the place into a caster-free zone, and keeping many non-magical creatures at bay. Like PF's Alkenstar, this would spur alchemical and technological solutions to things that are normally solved by magic. It would also have the odd effect that only non-casters could make magic items via the Magical Artisan feat, since they don't actually have to be able to cast spells to make magic items.

Note that in a town with no casters, non-casting classes with high skills will wield great power. Rogues, for example, will come into their own, and martial classes will definitely prosper. Feats that have damaging spells do subdual damage will be VERY popular to get around damage to civilians.

There is precedent for magical items that forbid certain schools of magic activating in areas. FR had an artifact that did this on a very wide scale, sundered into multiple parts. Wardspells could deny the functioning of certain spells in their area of effect, as well (from the Complete Volo's series).

==Aelryinth


Have people willingly accept Abadar's Truthtelling on all important business transactions. If you won't agree to not lie, you don't get business.

This makes it so you can't cheat other people anyway, as long as there's willing to be a church of Abadar serving as arbiter in the city's economic matters. Theft is another matter.....that Abadar despises. Honestly, this city sounds like a great place for Abadar to have a lot of power in, considering it's a city that's trying to civilize/grow out of the wilderness.

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Abadar's faith also includes those who like taking advantage of the law and using it against enemies, and who compete in business against rivals, not just those helping business get started. Note that putting a church at the center of all important business transactions gives immense power and prestige to that church, and could likely cause immense resentment. After all, why can't Saranrae and Asmodeus guarantee contracts, too?

You probably need a LG church as a guarantor for the REALLY important contracts, to make sure everything is truly above board. There might even be a LG sub-cult of Adabar's church whose sole function is to ensure honorable execution of contracts.

==Aelryinth


Well, if you manage to get a loophole through Abadar's Truthtelling, that's certainly the other party's fault!

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well, the spell doesn't guard against not telling everything, or being evasive. Which is basically an excuse for lawyers going to work, no? Plus you get a save against it. Note you'd have to pay for the spell to be cast twice, once on each party.

And it's not the other party's fault. It's a contest of bluff and sense motive getting around the spell.

You'd be better off with a permanent zone of truth which did the symbol display thing, to reduce costs and spell consumption.

==Aelryinth


Probably, but if you save you don't get the little symbol - you'd have to willingly accept it (fail the save on purpose.)

And it'd just be a part of how the city was run - huge NPC orgs don't really have to track their gold expenditures, the Church probably just bills the city treasury a certain amount per year for market-purposes.

It makes stuff like "You, anyone affiliated with you, or anyone working in or against your interest, to the best of your knowledge, has not or has had no intention of casting magic to manipulate this deal"... which is what the city is concerned about, Charm Person and the like.. if someone's evasive to that, it's rather suspicious :P

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Meh, Charm Person is best dealt with by a circle of protection from evil.

For contracts, you're worried about timing, competition, delivery for unforeseen events, payment on time, that sort of thing. For instance, obligating a party to deliver goods you intend to ambush on the road, so they have to re-acquire them at ruinous prices to sell to you, or causing a price drop of a shipment coming in so they have to accept less then the cost of the original material, etc.

i.e. cut and thrust mercantile politics.

==Aelryinth


Honestly, I'm imagining a city built with an antimagic/deead magic zone that houses the majority of the city with areas that allow magic outside.

Magic is impossible inside and all the important things, aside from magic, take place inside.

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remember the difference between anti-magic and dead magic zones.

Anti magic shuts down ALL magic.

Dead magic just stops spellcasting and activated magical abilities. magical items, such as weapons and armor, work just fine.

The latter is immensely preferable to the former.

==Aelryinth


Indeed, but I'm not sure you can control choose.

I mean, you can as a GM but people within the world wouldn't have much of a choice.

Edit: Nevermind. That's not true.

Quote:
Dead Magic: These planes have no magic at all. A plane with the dead magic trait functions in all respects like an antimagic field spell. Divination spells cannot detect subjects within a dead magic plane, nor can a spellcaster use teleport or another spell to move in or out. The only exception to the "no magic" rule is permanent planar portals, which still function normally.

However, there are limited magic planes. Theoretically you could attempt to create a plane with limited magic that is limited to a certain subset of school of magic/magic descriptors and black list everything else.

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Note that's a plane, not a zone. The zone would draw from Faerun/FR rules, which were what I stated, unless they've changed those as well. I think Alkenstar has information on dead magic zones...and magic still works there, just really poorly.

==Aelryinth


Abraham spalding wrote:

What I have done in the past:


  • Licenses for casters in general.
  • Self defense permits available.
    Self defense covers non-permanent "debuffs" or save or suck spells like sleep, color spray, blindness/deafness, and hold person. There is a court review afterward that tends to be mostly a formality (magical defense lawyers are about 10~1000 gold a case depending on the circumstances).
  • Comerical use of spells is a specialty permit with provisions by school, and use.
  • Magical item sales are tracked to the buyer through specialized use of arcane mark (specialty use of detect magic to read), items brought in are marked to you on entrance. Ownership is generally not an issue but usage has to stay within the above.
  • magic use is generally an aggravating circumstance for crimes.
  • research is generally allowed, but a research page with general outlines is submitted to the proper department and you are licensed.

When I need to do a flat ban I ban actions or outcomes instead of spells.


  • No creating undead without a specialized permit and the prior consent of the living creature/body's owner.
  • No spells of mass destruction or indiscriminate targeting.
  • The use of magic to compel another is forbidden.

I like this. A list motivated by intent and result may also be better maintainable via the city, as more magic is uncovered and developed (read: more expansions are published). The courts can set precedent and hash out the details. For example, a court case might decide Porro's Soup is not a prank, but is instead classified to cause harm because no one needs that level of explosive diarrhea.


There are of course no Faerun/FR rules for Pathfinder. Obviously in a custom world the GM can do what they want.

In Pathfinder, the only rules I know of for a magic dead zone is from the planar environments, although I seem to recall mentions of it somewhere that imply at least that these zone could be just part of a plane, including the material one. In the Mana Wastes there are magic dead zones (which I think follow the ruels above) and primal magic areas, basically wild magic.


Aelryinth wrote:

Note that's a plane, not a zone. The zone would draw from Faerun/FR rules, which were what I stated, unless they've changed those as well. I think Alkenstar has information on dead magic zones...and magic still works there, just really poorly.

==Aelryinth

I've not seen or don't remember rules for a dead magic zone, nor have I seen rules for the Mana Wastes.


dotting for later


Some points I left out the first time:

The general license is all but free. As such it is only a slight inconvenience to register.

The license is a stamp that a caster channels a cantrip through to basically "sign" on stuff. Casting without your license is generally a small fine or day in jail the first time and then the penalties go up. Self defense if done with restraint is the most common way people get caught. Generally it is lack of restraint that gets people in trouble more than the use of magic.

The authorities would rather find you defended yourself with sleep or color spray than having stapped someone with a sword.

The lingering aspects of cast magic can be matched to a casters aura if caught soon enough. The town police have what amounts to magical photo paper they can use for this. There are ways to fool it (such as multiple powerful spells from different sources, et al).


Anything you ban will be available just outside the gates. How will you deal with that?

It is easier to do some form of license, cost based on what could be cast. Don't ban spells, but fine unlawful spell usage. A spell is a tool. Using a hammer to build a house is good. Using that same hammer to kill someone is bad. Therefore, if a crime is committed and a spell is used to aid that crime, a fine is levied. Incarceration is based on the crime, not on spell use.

For monitoring, have a dedicated watch that routinely uses detect magic all over the place. They don't care what spell was cast, only that it was cast. They summon superiors who determine if a crime was committed. Minimum crime is casting a spell without a license.

Using the bureaucratic method gives you a lawful plan of control That it does not prevent casting is not important. Rather it punishes wrongful casting. Mage schools have a suitable license that covers the school property, and have a large retainer in case something spills over. Temples are similar, but with a lower retainer, since their spells tend to do less damage.

/cevah


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Cevah wrote:

Anything you ban will be available just outside the gates. How will you deal with that?

/cevah

Don't. Say that the laws extend to the borders, make the borders past the walls of the city, and apply to the surrounding country side. then, the fact that it's not readily enforceable outside the city walls makes for story hooks.

I"m sure the politicians of the city would start blaming neighboring cities for empowering people to use destructive and immoral magic, and then sending them into their city. Then trying to force neighboring cities to adopt their laws.

EDIT: Be warned, if anyone in your gaming group is involved in 2nd amendment politics, this might get them riled up. Might make for some interesting plot developments in your game.


Cevah wrote:

Anything you ban will be available just outside the gates. How will you deal with that?

/cevah

The same way real world governments deal with things they make illegal, like guns and illicit drugs. Merely possessing them is a crime without appropriate government authorization.

There are plenty of examples of how this exists in the real world that can be adapted to a fantasy world. Arguably, the fantasy world would do it better when the government could have a de facto monopoly on magic.

Obviously, these sort of policies would lead to the existence of a black market, but participating in that market would carry risks.

There is an interesting novel called "Among Thieves" by Douglas Hulick. In that novel, lower powered magic is allowed in the general populace, but the highest levels of magic was the sole property of the Emperor. Any non-Imperial in possession of "Imperial glimmer" would find him or herself the target of a very concerted hunt by the powerful minions of the Emperor. This is just one example of how this type of magical restriction could be done in a fantasy setting.


Manly-man teapot wrote:
Who's going to enforce it, and what kind of training do they have?

In the Realms Nation of Cormyr, any spellcaster of 4th level and higher had to register with the War Wizards. They were also the ones who enforced that law. So the answer is...enough training that you simply couldn't flout the law with impunity.


See also "Wizards of High Sorcery" from the Dragon Lance setting.


In both literature and fantasy RPG setting history, there are MANY different examples of magical policing groups.

Heck, it even exists in Harry Potter.

Having a force in place to enforce laws an the use and possession of magical abilities or items would be no more difficult in a fantasy world than organizations enforcing gun laws in the modern world. (And before people chime in with gun issues in the USA, how many people outside of government groups own fully automatic machine guns, artillery, tanks, missiles, grenades, etc? What would happen to a group that tried to amass such?)

Scarab Sages

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Charon Onozuka wrote:

What I've currently thought as being banned in the city:

-Spells that prevent alignment detection (Undetectable Alignment, Misdirection, Nondetection)
-Spells that give the user invisibility (Vanish, Invisibility, Invisibility Sphere)
-Magical Compulsion (Charm Person, Suggestion, Dominate Person)
-Knock (restricted to law officials only)
-Secret Sign
-Vacuous Vessel

Okay, so while you could ban these on paper, the main issue is that these are all rather subtle spells where you'd be unlikely to know if they were working or not. Not to mention, the city guards would require heavy spellcraft training in order identify the specific spells being cast, since your laws pertain to specific spells. This would require better trained, and therefore more expensive guards. It's a highly unrealistic approach.

For realistic approaches:

City has a single guild for magic users.
This one functions along the lines of peer pressure and gang mentality. Basically, people that don't join the magic guild (or are kicked out) can't use magic in the city. This is policed by the guild members themselves.

City has laws against obvious magic use
If it looks or sounds like magic, it's against the law. Simple guards can do this job, though some mix-ups are bound to happen (like flashy non-magic being mistaken for magic). This one is an easy law for the guards to undertake, though it offers no real protection from competent magic use.

City invests in (or innately has) some sort of anti-magic option
Either by natural effect of the city's location, or by intention, magic use is actually harder in the city. Making magic more difficult serves to discourage would be magic users. This can be accomplished by making SR common, increasing saves against magic, or by making it hard to concentrate within the city.


Dot


If the world is as high magic as is generally assumed in the typical Pathfinder campaign, there will be plenty enough spell casters out there to serve as at least Warrant Officers in the constabulary. The rules in the Game Mastery Guide for settlements, the average village of 60 people has 3rd to 4th level casters of every type available (2nd level spells are available for purchase in towns this small).

If spell casters are that common in a town that doesn't even have it's own sustainable gene pool, how common would casters be in a city of 100,000? 500,000? (Pathfinder dramatically underestimates the sizes of towns, btw. The major capital cities of the 14th to 15th century world, to include the early black powder era, were well more than the 25,000 metropolis size listed as largest category in the GMG. Moscow had 200,000 people in that time, Beijing had 400,000, Cairo 350,000, Delhi 125,000, etc. There really should be a larger category to address those truly massive cities.)


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Charon Onozuka wrote:

I'm currently designing a city for a campaign that I'm running, and recently started to think about the topic of magic. While magic is certainly a potent tool, many spells seem to have great potential to be abused for criminal activities. As such, I'm thinking about having the city imposed regulations on the production and use of certain types of magic. Naturally, this is a subject of heated debate among the citizens, with many desiring more/less restrictions.

As such my question is, What spells do you think that a reasonably lawful city would try to restrict in order to lessen crime?

Something to remember is that a "reasonably lawful" city is likely to have a lot of laws, and the laws are likely to be quite complex, because they're supposed to be able to provide guidance under all sorts of subtlely different circumstances.

A chaotic country might simply have a "no unlicensed spellcasters" rule and let it go at that. By contrast, the US tax code is about 3,000 pages long, because it's not simply a "give me your money" rule, but a set of rules designed to improve and enforce a reasonable public policy. If there's a behavior we want to encourage, we put a tax break on it -- if there's a behavior we want to discourage, we tax it more heavily.

It would not surprise me to see that at some point in the past, a staff member had gone through every spell in the CRB and made individual recommendations about each one, just like the US government does with drugs. (There are six pages of individual chemicals listed as "schedule I.")

There may be some spells that will be illegal to know (or to have in your spell book); there will be others that are illegal to cast in all circumstances, and others that can be cast only with specific license. There will probably be others that you can get a general cast-at-will license but that are illegal for unlicensed, and yet another spell list that's basically over-the-counter and anyone who can cast them is allowed.

In this regard, it's not that much different from how physicians have to behave in the US today. There are some drugs that they need special licenses to prescribe, others that they can prescribe just on the basic of a license to practice, and still others that can be picked up at the corner QuickMart. If you want to practice, you are expected to learn those rules, and if you're not allowed to practice (say, you're a physician from Italy on vacation here), you're expected not to practice medicine on your trip.


I would suggest banning certain schools and subschools. Necromancy is an obvious choice for this list. I would ban Illusion as well, because it is used to trick people, and Enchantment is basically about manipulating. Conjuration should be fine, as long as you don't summon something that will kill people. Abjuration is all about defense, so that seems okay too. I wouldn't ban Divination as a whole, but Scrying is used to invade privacy and things like that. Of course, people high up the chain of command might be allowed; that's up to you. I think I would ban Evocation, because that is mostly offensive and damage-related, except for harmless ones like light. Transmutation is tricky, but I think it should be allowed, as long as you don't use it to commit crimes.


Manly-man teapot wrote:
Who's going to enforce it, and what kind of training do they have?

it sounds like you need a MageHunter. I guess divine magic might be a no no but my profile is a sample magehunter.


In Golarion, your perfect enforcers would be specially trained maguses. (magi?) backed by an inquisitor.


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Manly-man teapot wrote:
Who's going to enforce it, and what kind of training do they have?

The simple answer is people that are focused around countering magic. I would suggest Inquisitors, especially of the Spellbreaker and Witch Hunter archetypes, as well as abjuration-focused Wizards and School Savant Arcanists. Occultists with the Tome Eater archetype (of 6th level or higher) would be useful because they can literally eat spells. Spells like dispel magic, antimagic field, and spellcrash would be useful among these enforcers.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Having a living enforcement arm just means using the magic is permissible as long as you don't leave witnesses. That means evil guys have all the edge, and heroes sucketh.

If you want to ban magic, then simply put up wards that prevent active use of magical abilities you don't want functioning. This evens the scale and makes the players come up with other solutions to stuff they could formerly fix easily with magic.

If that barred magic is available outside the city walls, make it illegal THERE. Then it becomes adventure fodder.

===Aelryinth

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