What are the actual penalties for revealing your social identity as a Vigilante?


Rules Questions

51 to 58 of 58 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Oh, agreed. I was just complaining that, by the rules, Bruce Wayne can be better at Sense Motive than Batman. That seems wrong.

One explanation I can think of for that is the line about your two identities being as much a state of mind as disguise. When you're Batman, you simply aren't as good at picking up the fine nuances of social behavior, because you aren't in the right head to think about that. You have bad guys to punch and parkour to commit. Sort of like I am better at dealing with people when I'm at work versus when I'm at home, because I am more mentally prepared for my customer support role than when all I'm prepared to do is watch Netflix. Or how people recall information better if they replicate as much as possible the circumstances that they learned that information, or DON'T immediately remember things like faces if they see them in places they don't expect to find them.

All that said, I agree with you. It seems wrong, my explanation seems like a complete stretch, and I'd rather handwave the requirement.

Edit: The more I think about Vigilante, the more I wonder if, like others have said, they couldn't have done this via feats or archetypes with each class rather than one class that gets a suite of archetypes. Don't get me wrong, I like the vigilante class, but I might have also liked 4 or 5 pages of social talents and abilities, followed by a half to full page archetype for each core, base, and hybrid class that picked up those abilties, or just had a line saying "the vigilante ninja can choose to learn any social talent they qualify for in place of a ninja trick" or similar. Each class could have had its own spin on dual identities to address a wide variety of RP situations. Some would merely heighten or emphasize their already existing transformational abilities, like Mutagen or Rage, most would tack it on like the Bard and Investigator archetypes do, but would probably do so in varying ways. The Wildsoul might be a ranger or druid archeype, the Warlock a magus (frankly, the final version of the base Mystic Bolt ability could have been a Magus-only cantrip and not been overpowered), the Magical girl an unchained Synthethist with social talents instead of Summon Monster, and so on.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
The consequences of Peter Parker revealing his identity were covered in Civil War...and it's aftermath.

So, a Vigilante who reveals his identity has to sell his soul marriage to Asmodeus?


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Ventnor wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
The consequences of Peter Parker revealing his identity were covered in Civil War...and it's aftermath.
So, a Vigilante who reveals his identity has to sell his soul marriage to Asmodeus?

Asmodeus is a well known collector of contracts. why would he take your soul when he can take your sweet sweet documents?

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
AnimatedPaper wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Oh, agreed. I was just complaining that, by the rules, Bruce Wayne can be better at Sense Motive than Batman. That seems wrong.
One explanation I can think of for that is the line about your two identities being as much a state of mind as disguise. When you're Batman, you simply aren't as good at picking up the fine nuances of social behavior, because you aren't in the right head to think about that. You have bad guys to punch and parkour to commit. Sort of like I am better at dealing with people when I'm at work versus when I'm at home, because I am more mentally prepared for my customer support role than when all I'm prepared to do is watch Netflix. Or how people recall information better if they replicate as much as possible the circumstances that they learned that information, or DON'T immediately remember things like faces if they see them in places they don't expect to find them.

See, I'd already thought of that, and I can buy it for some skills on some Vigilantes, but I definitely feel there should be a way around it for people who don't have that problem.

AnimatedPaper wrote:
All that said, I agree with you. It seems wrong, my explanation seems like a complete stretch, and I'd rather handwave the requirement.

Yeah, my House Rules already include a way around that limitation.

AnimatedPaper wrote:
Edit: The more I think about Vigilante, the more I wonder if, like others have said, they couldn't have done this via feats or archetypes with each class rather than one class that gets a suite of archetypes. Don't get me wrong, I like the vigilante class, but I might have also liked 4 or 5 pages of social talents and abilities, followed by a half to full page archetype for each core, base, and hybrid class that picked up those abilties, or just had a line saying "the vigilante ninja can choose to learn any social talent they qualify for in place of a ninja trick" or similar. Each class could have had its own spin on dual identities to address a wide variety of RP situations. Some would merely heighten or emphasize their already existing transformational abilities, like Mutagen or Rage, most would tack it on like the Bard and Investigator archetypes do, but would probably do so in varying ways. The Wildsoul might be a ranger or druid archeype,...

Well, they have stated there'll be some options for non-Vigilantes to grab another identity in (IIRC) The Spymaster's Handbook. So...that should probably allow a fair bit of this one way or another.


Tacticslion wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
How will our daring heroine ever escape this dastardly deva of diabolic dooooooommm~! Tune in next time to find out! Same cat-time, same cat-channel~!
Freehold DM wrote:
I...I wanna see more....

Me, too, friend. Me, too. Perhaps, someday, the publisher will finally acquire the funds they need to continue!

!O.O!

;D

EDIT: I hear they have more surprises and unexpected turns in store! :D

Good news, everyone! They've been funded! :D

(Now to see if they're legitimate artists, just ordinary sell-outs, or forgetful. I'm betting the latter...)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Has anyone compared a Vigilante like V from V for Vendetta against the class? That character strikes me as s great example of someone with merged personas, even if it was a forced approach due to his disfigurement. As V he possessed intimidation and combat prowess but was also able to persuade and socialize (albeit in small select groups.)he could not openly go out but still had access to both pools of skills in his single guise. The downside to his merged approach was solely due to the campaign he was in. To those who want to play as outed Vigilantes i would assume the same rules apply, in some games there will be repercussions but in the majority of games they would just come across as more dramatically inclined murder-hobos.

Certainly in a lot of groups their angst over secret identities would come across as prudent self defense as the rest of their party is capable of Fantastic Four level events and the Vigilante is still Street Level in power. Otherwise they are something like a more capable fighter who has come up with a fancy title for themselves as a form of bravado to show that off.


Pizza Lord wrote:

I'd say the penalties are hard to define since they likely depend on the character and his actions. How he's treated others, how he's acted, how much he shared, etc.

In the case of Peter Parker (depending on the time-line), if J. Jonah Jameson found out he was Spider-man all of sudden, he's probably lost his job. He's never selling a photograph of the web-slinger again. I mean, the guy would rightly feel betrayed and used (despite how illogical his aversion to Spider-man might seem to us). Ultimately, without a regular freelance job from the Daily Bugle, Peter might not have been able to stay in school, might have had to start turning to crime or 'confiscation' of things like drug money or such (obviously not a problem in DnD where the modus operandi is
to loot everything a person owns.) Regardless, now that's a lot (literal) bad press and everyone is going to view Peter Parker the same way.

That was exactly what happened in Civil War comics: except Confiscating money, only Scarlet Spider did that, Iron Man funded Spidery when he went public since losing his job.

Quote:


In fact, we can all agree that Spider-man has practically never done anything even remotely bad, but that never stopped people from questioning whether he was a 'Threat or a menace?' Even if Parker sells a photo of Spider-man fighting off a bunch of super-villians, J. Jonah Jameson probably ran the caption 'Spider-man attacks Trick-or Treaters!' Sure, Spider-man can try suing for libel but he'll probably be open to tons of lawsuits from property damage, accidental injury, etc., especially now that there's an address and identity linked to him.

All of sudden, everyone he works with knows he was lying to them. Now they understand how Peter Parker was able to get all those photos of Spider-man when no one else could. Any respect they had for his photography skill is lost because now they think he's just a narcissist taking pictures of himself.

Actually he was sued for deception: what if the photos he got were faked as he was Spiderman after all.


Starbuck_II wrote:
Pizza Lord wrote:

I'd say the penalties are hard to define since they likely depend on the character and his actions. How he's treated others, how he's acted, how much he shared, etc.

In the case of Peter Parker (depending on the time-line), if J. Jonah Jameson found out he was Spider-man all of sudden, he's probably lost his job. He's never selling a photograph of the web-slinger again. I mean, the guy would rightly feel betrayed and used (despite how illogical his aversion to Spider-man might seem to us). Ultimately, without a regular freelance job from the Daily Bugle, Peter might not have been able to stay in school, might have had to start turning to crime or 'confiscation' of things like drug money or such (obviously not a problem in DnD where the modus operandi is
to loot everything a person owns.) Regardless, now that's a lot (literal) bad press and everyone is going to view Peter Parker the same way.

That was exactly what happened in Civil War comics: except Confiscating money, only Scarlet Spider did that, Iron Man funded Spidery when he went public since losing his job.

Quote:


In fact, we can all agree that Spider-man has practically never done anything even remotely bad, but that never stopped people from questioning whether he was a 'Threat or a menace?' Even if Parker sells a photo of Spider-man fighting off a bunch of super-villians, J. Jonah Jameson probably ran the caption 'Spider-man attacks Trick-or Treaters!' Sure, Spider-man can try suing for libel but he'll probably be open to tons of lawsuits from property damage, accidental injury, etc., especially now that there's an address and identity linked to him.

All of sudden, everyone he works with knows he was lying to them. Now they understand how Peter Parker was able to get all those photos of Spider-man when no one else could. Any respect they had for his photography skill is lost because now they think he's just a narcissist taking pictures of himself.

Actually he was sued for deception: what if...

Didnt Civil War also have at least a few lines about someone trying to sue Spider-Man after getting hurt while attacking him? Still all social backlash based on the campaign. Why throw shade at the outed Vigilante when friggin Gandalf over there was dropping fireballs in the sewer all day every day all last week?

51 to 58 of 58 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / What are the actual penalties for revealing your social identity as a Vigilante? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.