GM 7thGate |
That sounds good to me! Before I create a character, who all is in on the defensive table, what teamwork feats are we going for, and how do we intend to get access to them (do we all take them, or are there some we just want to share via class features like tactician)?
Shake it Off, Shield Wall and Lastwall Phalanx look like a solid core of defensive feats that Anthys mentioned. Are we all looking to take those? That is a good amount of durability if we stay clustered together.
Other possibilities I would be interested in hearing opinions on;
Lookout, combined with a bodyguard animal companion/Divination Wizard/Divine Strategist -- everyone always gets to act in the surprise round and may get full round actions in the surprise round.
Aid Another Subtheme:
Covering Fire -- Can aid another AC for everyone with the feat. There are a lot of things that can boost aid another, which can start to get pretty strong.
Harrying Partners -- For later, lets AC/tohit increases stay for the whole round, instead of vs. 1 attack.
Bodyguard (not teamwork)-- Aid to AC on ally being attacked.
Swift Aid (not teamwork)-- Aid another at +1 instead of +2 as swift action
Benevolent Armor -- 2000 GP armor enhancement, add enhancement bonus to Aid to AC.
Ring of Tactical Precision: Item for the mid levels, which we all probably want on this team. Would be effective +2 AC/Saves due to shake it off/shield wall/lastwall phalanx, but also gives effective +2 for all aid another actions, which could end up with crazy boosts when combined with Harrying Partners and swift aid.
Takes longer to really get rolling, but offers the possibility to stack huge AC and to hit boosts in the middle to late levels. I think I probably want to try and go down this path to some extent, and would be interested in if anyone else would like to either do an aid other focus as well or have room in their prospective build to take covering fire/harrying partners. EDIT: It probably makes more sense for me to share covering fire via tactician for most people, since it has a prerequisite feat.
Anthys |
@ElterAgo, Tundra: I think an arcane caster would be very useful. Our martial capabilities are quite good but we lack skills (especially Knowledge) and spells.
@Nikolaus: great to see some teamwork feats boosting skills. If the other table ends up with two hunters they might be a good fit. Anthys is too clanky at low levels (Stealth would be a net -1). But he could invest in shadow armor later on.
@7thGate: those are some good options. Covering Fire might seem to offer diminishing returns for Anthys, but would be great if the party gets divided or if there are low-AC party members like mages who can use all the help they can get. Lookout sounds fantastic on paper but my cavalier got very little use out of it in actual PFS, retraining it out for Escape Route. Not sure why, there just weren't that many surprise rounds. Maybe GMs were doing things wrong? Harrying Partners sounds like a great mid-level feat.
Anthys is looking at taking Shake it Off at 2 (shareable), Lastwall Phalanx at 3 (not), Barroom Brawler at 4 (to pick up some teamwork feats on the fly) and Fighter's Tactics at 5. Can dump Fast Learner and Improvisation if we get a skillmonkey, freeing up two general feat slots.
Bozmir the Rather-Pretty |
I think I'll keep Shield Wall for now (or pay to retrain into Stealth Synergy). However, in the long term, I will only gain teamwork feats from the Battle Scion's Battle Prowess class feature so I can share them when playing this character at other tables (and to others who don't have them at this table - But people are getting Escape Route, right?).
For regular feats I will go with my first plan of the Dazzling Display and Intimidating Confidence build and not sharing that through Battle Prowess. If someone thinks they're missing out on a combat feat chain they want - just shout.
Vindlér Far-seer |
I really like the sound of Lookout as well, but in concept as well as in flavor, since it pretty much perfectly fits Vindlér's backstory (not that that's the focus of this experiment, but it's still pretty nice). I originally had a really convoluted plan to take several levels in Cavalier to get Tactician and a decent mount that would synergize with other mounted folks, like Qiote. But it kinda seems like his TW feats are more about him and his mount than mixing with other PCs like Anthys and I have done. For the time being, Shake it Off is probably my go-to for level 3.
I like the aid theme GM7G is describing, and I could pick up Combat Expertise at the same time to help set up for feats like Swift Aid or Gang Up at later levels. As far as table set up, I at least am dependent on having at least one other person with Shield Wall at the table for it to have any effect until 3rd level. So I'll either need to stick with Anthys for a while longer or with someone else who is starting out on the defensive route.
GM 7thGate |
I'm playing around with a few different possible builds, trying to see if I can come up with a character I like to match the mechanics. I'm thinking about possibly making an Investigator, to take advantage of their Effortless Aid talent and to help provide a broader skill focus for the team. Thinking about playing a butler, a man like Alfred, kept as kind of a general purpose support and problem solver for a mysterious noble benefactor, who has detached him to serve the pathfinder society for secretive reasons.
At this point, I discovered the Majordomo archetype, and briefly got really excited until I checked the PFS additional resources and saw it is banned :(.
May still go this route, splashing in a few levels of drill sergeant to fill out the needed combat feats and get the ability to grant covering fire.
Should hopefully have something decided in the next few days. When were we planning on getting started, again?
Anthys |
I'd love to have Marcus Volso in my group (who is 7th Gate's character); I just found a teamwork feat from Inner Sea Races that works for humans of Chelaxian or Taldan ethnicity and helps with just about everything 1/round.
Scion of the Lost Empire
Maybe even better for Marcus than Shake It Off, since Anthys will be able to share the latter and this one helps with skill checks and attack rolls.
Also, you forgot Helikon; his hunter might be fun to put in Dulomak's group.
Marcus Volso |
That looks good to me! That Scion feat is interesting; I note that you need to be Human (Chelaxian or Taldan) as a prereq, but to use it you just need to be next to a Chelish or Taldan ally. Maybe that would be a good feat to share out via tactician? Is Anthys one of the two ethnicities?
My current plan for my first few levels is something like:
Investigator 1: Point Blank Shot, Shake it Off
Drill Sergeant 2:Quick Draw
Drill Sergeant 3:Covering Fire [Tactician], Lastwall Phalanx, Shield Wall
Then two more Investigator levels for the effortless aid investigator talent.
I am considering going for covering defense after that point; Shield Wall boosts the shield bonus, which in turn boosts the cover bonus from Covering Defense. Could also get more teamwork feats though, if there are extra things we want. Level 5 is a ways away though.
Anthys |
Tactician is, at low levels, a boss-fight ability. Once per day for four rounds, costing a standard action. Scion I saw as a great skill-boosting ability for all-day use. Anthys is ethnically Taldan (aside from his halfling great-grandmother).
Marcus won't qualify for Lastwall Phalanx at 3, because his BAB will only be +2 then. Same as Vindlér, so I was thinking of retraining my Tactician feat to that at 3rd. Otherwise it would be level 5 at the earliest to get that one online.
1: Shield Wall, Fast Learner (?), Improvisation (?)
2: Weapon Focus, Shake it Off (Tactician)
3: Retrain Tactician feat to Lastwall Phalanx; Shake it Off as general feat
Covering Defense requires BAB +6 and taking total defense. Not sure I see that many cases where it would be useful. Maybe a good thing to remember for Barroom Brawler or other forms of martial flexibility.
Marcus Volso |
Hm, good catch on Lastwall Defense. I can rearrange to get it at 4, or just wait until level 5. Waiting until 5 makes more sense if I go with the Scion feat in place of covering defense.
Shake it Off is pretty strong if we all take it; as long as we stay clustered, it will usually be a +3 or +4 bonus to all saves for everyone. Same with Lastwall Phalanx; the two of those together should give us all very good saving throws once they're online. I think we should try to make sure everyone has those two feats at least, when possible.
Covering defense would come online at level 7, and lets me spend a standard action to give myself +6 AC (from the total defense), while also giving somewhere between +5 and +12 AC to one of my adjacent companions (probably starting at +6 or +7 and ramping up as I can afford better shield enchantments/rings of tactical precision). I will be able to move action Aid Another at that point, so could Aid+Covering Defense to stack AC boosts up quite a bit. That might not be strictly necessary though, maybe taking the Scion feat for additional immediate utility would be better? Hm...I would be ok going either way with that. Anthys, if you think Scion+another teamwork feat will be more helpful than eventually picking up covering defense and want to get it with me at level 1, I'll go ahead and get it.
Anthys |
Good points on Covering Defense combined with the Aid Another.
I like Scion for its flexibility. Attacks, saves, ability checks, or skills. The latter of which are very important to many scenarios.
So Anthys will drop Improvisation, and pick up Scion. It's almost like a constant passive Aid Another.
Could also drop Fast Learner if Nikolaus or Qioté had teamwork feats they wanted Anthys to take.
GM Fez |
That's not actually the way it works. You can play in both, but not at the same time. It's to prevent weird things from happening with chronicles, for example you finish the AP before you finish an adventure here. Now you've leveled and change the effective level of the group here, which may cause the subtier to raise, making gold and challenges weird.
Although you can have more than one active character
in the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, you can
play only one of your characters during a specific
adventure session.
GM Fez |
Against my better judgement we'll see how this turns out. So Helikon you'll be with the table of three.
Dulomak
Bozmir
Dissa
Helikon
Jump over to this thread, and dot in the gameplay and we'll get started shortly.
Anthys
Vindler
Qiote
Marcus Volso
Jump over to this thread, and dot in the gameplay and we'll get started shortly.
GM Fez |
Currently have a team building towards AC teamwork stuff, that's Anthys, Vindler, Qiote, and Marcus, and a team building towards AoO teamwork stuff, Dulomak, Bozmir, Dissa, and Helikon.
Right now I'd prefer if you jumped into the former table as Dulomak and Helikon are both running hunters, and more people would make that more crowded. So head over here and jump right in, we're just getting to briefing stuff.