Grippli, mounted tradition and mammoth rider


Pathfinder Society

Grand Lodge 3/5

My question is can the Mounted Tradition Boon allow a grippli character to have a giant frog as a Steed?

Grand Lodge 3/5

Assuming it works my plan is

Hunter (divine hunter)4, Vigilante(Mounted fury)3, mammoth rider X

Huge celestial giant Frog.

Scarab Sages 5/5

No.

Mammoth rider lists what animal companions or mounts it specifically works with. Unfortunately, giant frog is not one of them.

Grand Lodge 3/5

True but the Mounted tradition boon alters the list

Silver Crusade 4/5

What is the wording on the Mounted Tradition boon?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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Boon:
"If you have the divine bond or mount class feature, instead of choosing an animal companion from the list provided in the class description, you may instead call a mount from the list below so long as you are a member of the corresponding race. You must actually be a member of the listed race"

Class:
"This steed functions as a druid’s animal companion, replacing any animal companion or mount gained from another class."

I kinda see the contradiction, but I'd call the boon "specific trumping the general"

Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Humphry B ManWitch wrote:

Assuming it works my plan is

Hunter (divine hunter)4, Vigilante(Mounted fury)3, mammoth rider X

Huge celestial giant Frog.

Even if the boon changes the list, that levelbreakdown won't work.

Mammoth Rider requires 9 ranks in ride and handle animal. There is no way that I know off that lets you have 9 ranks at level 8.

Because skills get chosen after class, you need at least 9 levels of other classes before you can enter Mammoth Rider.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

The boon does not apply.

Why?

It only applies to the Divine Bond or Mount class features.

The Mammoth Rider does not have either of those class features. Instead, it has the "Steed" class feature, so the boon does not apply, and you must choose from the listed options.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

"This steed functions as a druid’s animal companion"

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I'm not sure what you're saying, Muser. The boon does not apply to a Mammoth Rider because it has neither of the specific class features cited. And the sentence you quote, "This steed functions as a druid's animal companion, replacing any animal companion or mount gained from another class" basically clarifies that whatever you had before (i.e. Boon frog), it's replaced by the Steed-specific option for Mammoth Riders (which we established the boon does not alter).

Shadow Lodge 4/5

edit: nvm. It'd be one of those back'n'forths.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

There's three things going on here:

1) you must have at least 9 levels in other classes before becoming a Mammoth Rider (9 ranks in ride and handle animal)

2) Sammy T is suggesting that because the Mammoth Rider class feature is called "steed" instead of "divine bond" or "mount" you can't use the boon for its granted companion. I think that's a very narrow reading of the boon, however it is important to note that the boon deliberately excludes Druids and other classes that get an Animal Companion (that may or may not be ridden) that isn't specifically called a mount. Excluding Mammoth Rider may indeed have been intended.

3) The Mammoth Rider chooses from a specific list of size Large animals which is then immediately grown to Huge. The specific mechanical changes for that advancement are listed. However, a giant frog is normally size Medium. How do you advance it?

Barring an answer from the campaign staff I would have to go with NO because there's too much ambiguity. My interpretation is that you could use the boon and that the advancement to Huge would get only the bonuses and penalties listed in the Mammoth Rider class ability (no bonuses for the change from medium to large). However there are plenty of other valid interpretations as well.

And on the Personal Opinion side...:
Using my interpretation this isn't a particularly powerful class feature. I don't think it would upset the power curve to have a Huge frog with some very minor stat increases.

However I don't think it at all fits with the lore of the Mammoth Rider. Most of the classes from Paths of Prestige are specific to an organization or location. The list of animals that you choose from replaces your previous creature with one very location-specific. If you had a snake for 9 levels of Druid, it doesn't matter. You have to replace it. While expanding the list of mounts available to classes found around Golarion (Mounted Tradition boon) is one thing, adding a frog to the Realm of the Mammoth Lords doesn't make much sense.

Again, personal opinion

Grand Lodge 3/5

Thanks for your responses. I will have to plead to the game designers then.

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