I haven't found a reference to 'named weapon' yet. Are you talking about unique magic weapons, like a Sun Blade? I think those fall under this rule:
Armor and Weapon Sizes: Armor and weapons that are found at random have a 30% chance of being Small (01–30), a 60% chance of being Medium (31–90), and a 10% chance of being any other size (91–100).
The only place size factors into magic weapons is for the base weapon cost -- a Large Sun Blade would be based on a 70gp Large bastard sword instead of a 35gp Medium one, so Amiri (swinging a Large) would have to drop more cash than Valeros or Lem.
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There are rules for cost and weight for weapons, use them.
There are no rules for using a ranged weapon not your size, at least I've never seen any.
Yeah, not directing this at ranged, though you do bring up a good point. Though there are rules for oversized thrown weapons. I think there's also a feat related to Large Crossbows, though I think that's directed at siege weapons.
So with a lack of size related rules, how does one handle size in PFS?
So, for example, in Core PFS, can I take a Large Shatterspike? I'd need the Fame, of course.
Shatterspike is a Longsword from the Core rulebook which does not list a size.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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So with a lack of size related rules, how does one handle size in PFS?
So, for example, in Core PFS, can I take a Large Shatterspike? I'd need the Fame, of course.
Pathfinder tells you what you can do. If you don't have an ability to use a ranged weapon other than your size, you can't.
PFS allows different sized normal items.
PCs purchasing equipment at sizes other than Small and Medium must adjust the prices per the existing weapon size rules (Core Rulebook 144).
But named items are not covered in those rules directly. The FAQ says you can't upgrade named items.
Your best bet is to go to the PFS general forum and ask there about Large Named Items. I don't think they are legal and I'd not allow one. But if you play with one and use it, having a forum post by leadership or other 5 star GM saying it is ok is a good way to alter my mind.
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PFS allows different sized normal items.
PCs purchasing equipment at sizes other than Small and Medium must adjust the prices per the existing weapon size rules (Core Rulebook 144).But named items are not covered in those rules directly. The FAQ says you can't upgrade named items.
Your best bet is to go to the PFS general forum and ask there about Large Named Items. I don't think they are legal and I'd not allow one. But if you play with one and use it, having a forum post by leadership or other 5 star GM saying it is ok is a good way to alter my mind.
I know you can't upgrade them, but that isn't the subject, as a small character getting a small version of a named item is just as uncovered as a medium character getting a large one.
Though regarding ranged weapons, I did find an interesting bit for bows in the Core Rulebook, no less:
At almost 5 feet in height, a longbow is made up of one solid piece of carefully curved wood. You need two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. A longbow can't be used while mounted. If you have a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when you use a longbow. You can apply your Strength modifier to damage rolls when you use a composite longbow, but not a regular longbow. A longbow fires arrows.
So I think over/undersize longbows are legal, though they'd all require 2-hands, with appropriate over or undersized penalties.
The shortbow includes similar wording.
Rules do exist for thrown light, one-handed, and two-handed weapons. So I don't over/undersize rules change there.
Unclear with crossbows and slings, though I certainly lean towards their hands required not changing by size decreases (smaller crossbows would not require any less hands). Totally undecided with larger versions.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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So I think over/undersize longbows are legal, though they'd all require 2-hands, with appropriate over or undersized penalties.
This isn't the first time that has been suggested, and this is a very contentious issue. There are many on both sides that simply won't entertain the concept of the other side.
The Inappropriately Sized Weapons section only covers melee weapons:
If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.
So if you could use a Colossal Longbow as a Diminutive bat, then you wouldn't be taking a -2 penalty or similar. Because there are no rules for using a ranged weapon not of your size.
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So I think over/undersize longbows are legal, though they'd all require 2-hands, with appropriate over or undersized penalties.This isn't the first time that has been suggested, and this is a very contentious issue. There are many on both sides that simply won't entertain the concept of the other side.
The Inappropriately Sized Weapons section only covers melee weapons:
If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.So if you could use a Colossal Longbow as a Diminutive bat, then you wouldn't be taking a -2 penalty or similar. Because there are no rules for using a ranged weapon not of your size.
I never use bows, so I really don't care much on this point. Was mostly looking it up for your benefit, since it seemed like you wanted to know about that.
I'll certainly give to your opinion on how bows should or shouldn't be allowed as oversized weapons. I just really don't care on that point.
Though regarding ranged attacks, it is very notable that melee weapons can still be thrown, so those oversized weapon penalties should at least apply to thrown ranged attacks.
I'm pretty sure I've seen references to crossbows and firearms being affected by the size rules. I don't remember where tho. Can't imagine bows not being affected by the same, although it seems they're always two-handers.
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There is a continuing discussion among many threads about the whole Enlarge Person/Reduce Person "nerf" where the least damage is done when projectile weapons (along with thrown weapons) are used. (Reduced for Enlarge, staying the same for Reduce)
It is an error turned cannon in the Cut n' Paste of the 3.5 rules to the Core book. A phrase was left out of Enlarge Person.
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Oh, side note, I did get a ruling on this for PFS:
Basically, the idea is that weapons can be upgraded to Named items, they just can't take further upgrades or be altered once made into named items. This is in, but very well hidden in, the PFS FAQ for named weapons.
Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions.
So if I start with a masterwork large weapon, then upgrade it into a Named weapon, I can have a large named weapon. Likewise with a small named weapon. Cost and weight are adjusted as normal for making a weapon with the large or small property. PFS players still can't get larger than large, or smaller than small weapons, unless a chronicle sheet says otherwise (because PFS requires items to have a listed cost).
My example Shatterspike would be:
Large Longsword (30gp) + masterwork (300gp) + enhancements (4000gp) = 4,330gp
Mind you, all this must be bought with Fame. Chronicle sheet weapons are assumed to be of the size they specify, or of the same size as the character.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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So if I start with a masterwork large weapon, then upgrade it into a Named weapon
I was aware of that FAQ in this post.
I don't think that is remotely what the named FAQ is saying.
Can you link to the thread where you got the reply? I think they answered "can I upgrade a masterwork item to a named item" and you can.
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So if I start with a masterwork large weapon, then upgrade it into a Named weaponI was aware of that FAQ in this post.
I don't think that is remotely what the named FAQ is saying.
Can you link to the thread where you got the reply? I think they answered "can I upgrade a masterwork item to a named item" and you can.
Exact same thread name, just in the general PFS section. Here
But, yeah, wasn't my conclusion either. Still, that is the easiest solution that works within the rules provided.
By the way, by "ruling" I didn't I got an official response, just that I got it explained in a manner that makes enough sense within the rules.
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So if I start with a masterwork large weapon, then upgrade it into a Named weaponI was aware of that FAQ in this post.
I don't think that is remotely what the named FAQ is saying.
Can you link to the thread where you got the reply? I think they answered "can I upgrade a masterwork item to a named item" and you can.
Anyway, that named weapon FAQ covers a lot of things.
Can I Upgrade a Named Magic Item?
(1)Named magic items—including specific armor and specific weapons—are not upgradeable. (2)Non-magic specific armor and specific weapons may be upgraded normally. (3)Magic armor and weapons may be upgraded to named versions if they are the same basic material and shape as, and meet but do not exceed the enhancement bonuses of the named versions. (4)Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
(5)Upgraded versions of named magic items may appear on Chronicle sheets.
(6)Intelligent magic items are not available for purchase unless they appear on a Chronicle sheet or are provided as part of a class or archetype (such as the black blade magus archetype).
Numbers are mine.
1: Clarifies that further upgrades cannot be give to named magic items. They explain that this encompasses magical specific armor and magical specific weapons.
2: Permits upgrading non-magical specific armor and specific weapons.
3: Says existing magic armor and weapons may become named versions providing they are the same basic material and shape and that they don't have better improvements than the item they are becoming.
4: Clarifies that Wonderous items which have +x values can upgrade into improved versions of +x items of the same name.
5: Allows chronicle sheets to completely ignore the above and provide items which would otherwise be illegal.
6: Disallows non-chronicle and non-class based intelligent items.
Should really be in a list format, as I think the paragraph is confusing - each point is addressing an independent issue.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Murdock, I'm aware of that FAQ.
We differ on whether or not it matters.
I absolutely don't see that known thing (upgrading to a named item) as a way to upgrade from something that isn't the base of the named item to be the named item altered.
If you can do a Large Longsword -> Shatterspike via named upgrade, then you can also do a steak knife -> Shatterspike.
To clarify, I think you should be permitted to do so. I just don't know a rule allowing you to do so. So any GM allowing it may be found to deviate policy later.
So I think over/undersize longbows are legal, though they'd all require 2-hands, with appropriate over or undersized penalties.This isn't the first time that has been suggested, and this is a very contentious issue. There are many on both sides that simply won't entertain the concept of the other side.
The Inappropriately Sized Weapons section only covers melee weapons:
If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.So if you could use a Colossal Longbow as a Diminutive bat, then you wouldn't be taking a -2 penalty or similar. Because there are no rules for using a ranged weapon not of your size.
Actually there are. Large bows are ruled out by the rule that says a character simply can not use a two handed weapon for a size larger than they are. Smaller bows simply impose the wrong size penalty.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Wait for one of the next parts of the current AP, the iconic evil duergar uses an oversized crossbow - although I'm not sure whether there's a different rule for crossbows, it's late here.
There are AP's that have you cast Wall of Force then cast spells through the wall at the PCs so they can't cast back at you.
So just because an AP or monster stat block does something, doesn't mean that is following the rules.
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Actually there are. Large bows are ruled out by the rule that says a character simply can not use a two handed weapon for a size larger than they are. Smaller bows simply impose the wrong size penalty.
James has it right. The issue is that the oversize/undersize penalty rules are a subset of the light, one-handed, and two-handed weapon rules (CRB). It's not addressed for ranged weapons (other than thrown weapons).
Even describing bows as being two-handed weapons is rather iffy from the rules stance, despite them requiring two hands in order to use.