Historical and Future Safety of Paizocon Attendees


PaizoCon General Discussion

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I am completely thrilled to be attending Paizo Convention this year. It will be my first year having done so, and as the winner of the Pathfinder Chronicler Fiction Contest 2015, plus having a fiction article in Wayfinder #15, I have a vested interest in attending. It saddens me to feel the need to bring something like this up, but it must be considered.

Today the illustrious Sean K. Reynolds posted an article on his website: "Tabletop Gaming has a Sexual Assault Problem" which includes a subset article "Tabletop Gaming has a White Male Terrorism Problem."

It is of course important to note that Paizocon is not mentioned in those articles, but these problems are just as likely to exist at any given Con. To ensure the utter success of Paizocon for all of its attendees, I would like to confirm three things.

1. Could somebody from Paizo please clearly and explicitly post their official stance on inappropriate behavior for all to see?

2. Have any of you previous Paizocon attendees ever felt like you weren't 100% completely safe while at the convention? Feel free to reply in a private message to me if you don't want it public. If you have ever felt harassed, assaulted, attacked, raped, threatened, sexism, racism, homophobia, or negligence, this means you.

3. What practices have been in place (or will be this year) to prevent this sort of thing from happening? Who can victims talk to to have their concern addressed? How can they be assured they won't be punished for talking about it? Will there be security or trained personnel equipped to handle an incident where an attendee's safety is concerned?

Again I would like to reiterate if anyone wants to send me a private message detailing their experience they are welcome. It is important the truth be known so we can make the Con as welcoming and safe as can be.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Please don't be offended by my questions, here.

Who are you and under what authority are you asking these questions and offering to speak to individuals via private message?

The concerns you raise seem reasonable and valid. However, without any sort of proof as to what aegis you operate under--you are apparently not from Paizo--I can't trust any of the information you've posted here without verification.

It's also adding more stress to my own trip plans to attend Paizocon for the first time, as if I needed any more.

Thank you very much for your time in advance.

Edit: The tone above may seem a bit paranoid, but having been in gaming for a good long while, I have seen several situations where things are supposedly 'to help people out' turn out to be horrific situations that cause more harm than good. I'm hoping for the best on this one, but please forgive my wariness?


I was not aware that asking questions about experiences at a convention required any particular authority to do so. I know if I was considering attending a convention which I had not previously attended, I would ask what it was like there.


You don't need to have 'authority' to ask questions about a convention. And offering to speak via private message instead of a public, world-readable message-board post seems like common courtesy.

As for the 'who are you', I'm taking at face value that they are who they say they are:
as the winner of the Pathfinder Chronicler Fiction Contest 2015, plus having a fiction article in Wayfinder #15, I have a vested interest in attending.

If you don't believe their public post, it's probably more useful to ask Piazo staff via email if they are really who they say they are. Questioning their bonafides here isn't likely to add any truthiness to their answers.

And thank you to Alayern for bringing this out of the shadows, where people had to know somebody personally in order to ask for that kind of information.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
RealAlchemy wrote:
I was not aware that asking questions about experiences at a convention required any particular authority to do so. I know if I was considering attending a convention which I had not previously attended, I would ask what it was like there.

It wasn't asking about 'what's the convention like' that got my hackles up, but the 'if something horrific has happened to one, just tell me in private' part, especially after reading the second linked article that had painful-to-read tales in it.

Do we need an awareness? Yes. Do things need to be done to ensure the safety and health of all attendees, mentally, physically, and socially? Yes. Does it need to be done for all conventions? Ideally, YES.

Could I be 'tone-deaf' on this and reading in meanings and allusions that aren't there? Entirely possible, I'm not perfect, and definitely don't claim to be by any means.

Truth in Text: Last year after Gen Con I put up a thread of my own asking about PaizoCon. I had gotten enough positive feedback on that thread that I was eager to attend.

Dark Archive

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It's a fairly common thing to expect conventions to have comprehensive anti-harassment policies these days. Hell, it's considered a best practice for conferences and convention spaces. That's just the first source for this that comes to mind; I'm loathe to link the dozens of articles calling for it to be a staple of convention policy or the many major events that have adopted comprehensive policies. I encourage folks to google this themselves if they want to know more.

There is a stated policy re: PaizoCon found here. but it doesn't fully answer Alayern's questions (especially re: procedure for making complaints, the process, etc.).

Otherwise, +1 on CrystalSeas' responses. Offering the option to talk about something private that, traditionally, publicly bringing up can lead to retaliation/further harassment is just common courtesy on the OP's part.

Dark Archive

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Hey there Alayern!

In my experience, PaizoCon is a very safe environment. The hotel is well lit and easy to navigate. One problem is that depending on where in the hotel your room is, you may have a long walk through some rather sparsely populated areas. Also, the back parking lot is not sooper well lit and abuts a wooded area. So if you find yerself taking the short cut through the parking lot, look for others doing the same or ask someone to walk with you; everyone in a blue Paizo shirt is approachable and willing to help in any manner possible.

Regarding people to whom one would bring attention of an event, Sara Marie, Liz, and Chris are almost always around the con space. You can locate the Organized Play Coordinator Tonya in the PFS room more often than not. If you don't know these fine folks, make a point of tracking them down and introducing yerself. Those four folks are awesome people in general and will always make the time to talk and/or get you the help/assistance you need.

I do not remember a police presence, but it is a hotel so there will be some kind of security personnel. Whether this is private or part of Seattle's finest, I do not know.

Look out for the feral cats. They were everywhere last year. :)

Last, I like to think that the peeps who attend Paizo Con are good people. I am not naive about there being ugliness in the world, and being a white male, I have certain privilege which I recognize. Still, I like to think any one of the volunteer Venture Corps will not hesitate to assist you if you ask for an escort to your room or report to PFS HQ table that someone made you uncomfortable while playing. It's one of our jobs to report and handle these issues and one all of us take very serious.

Paizo Con is a glorious mishmash of all kinds of people. I know Pazio has gone to great lengths to make everyone feel welcome and safe.

Let me know if you have any questions and I will be happy to answer them.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I can say that any security on site wouldn't be part of Seattle's Finest, unless they're working a side job off duty, since the hotel is in the city of Seatac, not Seattle proper.

Dark Archive

JoelF847 wrote:
I can say that any security on site wouldn't be part of Seattle's Finest, unless they're working a side job off duty, since the hotel is in the city of Seatac, not Seattle proper.

Ah, good call. I was using the term loosely to differentiate between public and private and forget the hotel is not in Seattle proper.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I cannot answer questions one or three, but as to two I have attended PaizoCon since 2012 and have never felt any concern for my well-being outside of the typical fatigue that attending a major convention incurs. It should be noted that I am in the demographic the linked articles refer to, which could have blinded me to instances in the past. I do promise to try and be vigilant this year.


I attended PaizoCon last year and had a great time. Paizo is pretty progressive as an organization and makes an effort to be aware and responsive to this sort of thing. My expectation is that they would take complaints about harassment seriously and eject anyone accused of causing trouble.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ring_of_Gyges wrote:
I attended PaizoCon last year and had a great time. Paizo is pretty progressive as an organization and makes an effort to be aware and responsive to this sort of thing. My expectation is that they would take complaints about harassment seriously and eject anyone accused of causing trouble.

Have to nit-pick here, apologies in advance.

Is just an accusation enough? If someone is harassing me or making my life miserable will my word be enough to have a person removed, or will it tie into the concern addressed by the original poster?

Alternatively, if someone 'just doesn't like me', can they make a false accusation and have me removed on the strength of said accusation?

I have faith in Paizo's ability to handle the situation, but there's also doubt that it would be that easy to remove someone from the convention, based on both OP's comments and personal experience and considerations.

No, I've never been in the position of being asked to leave a convention, nor have I ever put myself in any position like that, but I have seen individuals get their badges *yanked* at Gen Con after they had done something *exceedingly disruptive* in front of two Hall Captains back in Milwaukee...


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The PaizoCon event policy is the top of the PaizoCon FAQ. Specifically regarding conduct and harassment:

PaizoCon Event Policies wrote:

At Paizo, we believe that games are for everyone, and that a diverse community based on enthusiasm for games and mutual respect for other gamers benefits everyone involved. We are committed to fostering an inclusive, safe, and fun environment for newcomers and veteran gamers alike, regardless of age, body size, gender identity or gender expression, nationality or ethnicity, neurotypicality, physical ability, physical appearance, religious beliefs or background, sexual orientation, or other differences.

We pride ourselves on having one of the best communities in gaming, and invite all volunteers, vendors, speakers, attendees, media representatives, and other participants to help us ensure PaizoCon is a positive experience for everyone. The policies below are ones we expect all attendees to observe:

  • Treat each other with respect and follow common sense rules for public behavior, personal interaction, basic courtesy, personal hygiene, and respect for people's persons and property. Harassment, bullying, and related inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated. If someone asks you to stop a behavior directed at him or her, or leave him or her alone, do so immediately.

...

  • Feel free to take photographs and record video during Paizocon. Please note, however, that any attendee may request that you not record or photograph his or her event (panel, seminar, private game, etc.) and that you must comply with that request. Have fun taking pictures and recording the show, but be respectful of others when doing so.

...

If you have any questions or concerns about these policies, please contact paizocon@paizo.com.

Community & Digital Content Director

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At PaizoCon, we strive to create a welcoming, fun, and friendly environment for attendees, staff, volunteers, and others who may be in the convention vicinity. Similarly to our policy for our online forum community, we reserve the right to remove any individual or group as necessary.

Our Community team, which I manage, strives to be an open ear for any community member, at any time, for any reason. We also work incredibly closely with Sara Marie, our Customer Service Manager (who manages many of the logistics for PaizoCon). If you're familiar with the tone and interactions with both of these teams via email, phone, or our forums, we hope that folks understand that our approach to support involves treating folks on an individual level as best as we can manage.

We hope that if people have questions, comments or concerns regarding PaizoCon, such as experiences that occurred at previous conventions, that they would contact either our Community team at community@paizo.com, one of the Community team members, or the convention organizers directly (Paizo COO Jeff Alvarez, Customer Service Manager Sara Marie, Community and Digital Content Director Chris Lambertz, or Community Manager Liz Courts). We are sensitive to the privacy of our community members and the experience of folks at PaizoCon is incredibly important to us.

Our specific policy regarding how we expect the community and our staff to behave at PaizoCon is outline in our program book as well online under the PaizoCon tab labeled "Policies & FAQ."

PaizoCon Event Policies wrote:

At Paizo, we believe that games are for everyone, and that a diverse community based on enthusiasm for games and mutual respect for other gamers benefits everyone involved. We are committed to fostering an inclusive, safe, and fun environment for newcomers and veteran gamers alike, regardless of age, body size, gender identity or gender expression, nationality or ethnicity, neurotypicality, physical ability, physical appearance, religious beliefs or background, sexual orientation, or other differences.

We pride ourselves on having one of the best communities in gaming, and invite all volunteers, vendors, speakers, attendees, media representatives, and other participants to help us ensure PaizoCon is a positive experience for everyone. The policies below are ones we expect all attendees to observe:

  • Treat each other with respect and follow common sense rules for public behavior, personal interaction, basic courtesy, personal hygiene, and respect for people's persons and property. Harassment, bullying, and related inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated. If someone asks you to stop a behavior directed at him or her, or leave him or her alone, do so immediately.
  • Be considerate and respectful toward other hotel guests, and comply with their requests to keep noise down in and around hotel rooms, etc.
  • Feel free to take photographs and record video during Paizocon. Please note, however, that any attendee may request that you not record or photograph his or her event (panel, seminar, private game, etc.) and that you must comply with that request. Have fun taking pictures and recording the show, but be respectful of others when doing so.
  • Weapons are prohibited. It is the hotel's policy that no weapons whatsoever be allowed on the premises, and Paizo supports that policy. Additionally, items that appear to be weapons are also not allowed. This includes costume weapons and self-defense items such as pepper spray, Tasers, and knives, but also extends to BB guns, cap guns, water guns, paintball guns, Airsoft weapons, and so on. We do not allow any of these items at the show even if it is legal to carry them.
  • Outside alcohol is prohibited. It is the hotel's policy that outside alcohol is not permitted in meeting spaces and public spaces.

If you have any questions or concerns about these policies, please contact paizocon@paizo.com.

In the program book we also list out the contact numbers for convention emergencies, the number to get in touch with hotel security, local non-emergecy and emergency law enforcement, and the King County Sexual Assault Resource Center.

PaizoCon is not a "large" show; we do not have official security walking the floor, however, all of our employees should be aware of and able to assist with finding the appropriate channels for escalation. If you need to report a past incident, please let community@paizo.com or paizocon@paizo.com know about it, so that our staff can be aware of the issue.


Last year at Paizocon I was a witness to how quickly and appropriately Paizo employees to inappropriate behavior from a guy at a game I played in last year. That and the community was pretty great, aside from that one incident I didn't witness any gross behavior from people.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Large Text Post Responding to Everyone:

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Please don't be offended by my questions, here.

Who are you and under what authority are you asking these questions and offering to speak to individuals via private message?

The concerns you raise seem reasonable and valid. However, without any sort of proof as to what aegis you operate under--you are apparently not from Paizo--I can't trust any of the information you've posted here without verification.

It's also adding more stress to my own trip plans to attend Paizocon for the first time, as if I needed any more.

Thank you very much for your time in advance.

Edit: The tone above may seem a bit paranoid, but having been in gaming for a good long while, I have seen several situations where things are supposedly 'to help people out' turn out to be horrific situations that cause more harm than good. I'm hoping for the best on this one, but please forgive my wariness?

Wei-Jei the Learner's concerns have been replied to in a PM. As a side note, he was right to be wary of "some internet person" given I've provided little to assure anyone of my intentions. Please, for the duration of the thread, I hope you will interpret them in the positive spirit of the original post.

CrystalSeas wrote:

...

And thank you to Alayern for bringing this out of the shadows, where people had to know somebody personally in order to ask for that kind of information.

Awareness of a situation is the first step to solving it. The more people who know what is expected of us, the easier it is to hold each other accountable. I eagerly await the day where intolerance of reprehensible behavior is the norm, and not the experiences mentioned in the subset article in the original post. I've heard way too many stories of people being treated maliciously due to hostile prejudices.

Leg o' Lamb wrote:

Hey there Alayern!

In my experience, PaizoCon is a very safe environment. The hotel is well lit and easy to navigate. One problem is that depending on where in the hotel your room is, you may have a long walk through some rather sparsely populated areas. Also, the back parking lot is not sooper well lit and abuts a wooded area. So if you find yerself taking the short cut through the parking lot, look for others doing the same or ask someone to walk with you; everyone in a blue Paizo shirt is approachable and willing to help in any manner possible.

Regarding people to whom one would bring attention of an event, Sara Marie, Liz, and Chris are almost always around the con space. You can locate the Organized Play Coordinator Tonya in the PFS room more often than not. If you don't know these fine folks, make a point of tracking them down and introducing yerself. Those four folks are awesome people in general and will always make the time to talk and/or get you the help/assistance you need.

I do not remember a police presence, but it is a hotel so there will be some kind of security personnel. Whether this is private or part of Seattle's finest, I do not know.

Look out for the feral cats. They were everywhere last year. :)

Last, I like to think that the peeps who attend Paizo Con are good people. I am not naive about there being ugliness in the world, and being a white male, I have certain privilege which I recognize. Still, I like to think any one of the volunteer Venture Corps will not hesitate to assist you if you ask for an escort to your room or report to PFS HQ table that someone made you uncomfortable while playing. It's one of our jobs to report and handle these issues and one all of us take very serious.

Paizo Con is a glorious mishmash of all kinds of people. I know Pazio has gone to great lengths to make everyone feel welcome and safe.

Let me know if you have any questions and I will be happy to answer them.

I've bolded important people's names for easier reference. Thank you for your endorsement of Paizocon and its staff. I am greatly anticipating it to be the best con I've ever attended, and this is right in line with that. So long as everyone gets the same chance as you have there, I'll have no complaints.

TriOmegaZero wrote:
I cannot answer questions one or three, but as to two I have attended PaizoCon since 2012 and have never felt any concern for my well-being outside of the typical fatigue that attending a major convention incurs. It should be noted that I am in the demographic the linked articles refer to, which could have blinded me to instances in the past. I do promise to try and be vigilant this year.

Thank you for your honesty. Vigilance is the key to ensuring evil never has a chance to appear.

Ring_of_Gyges wrote:
I attended PaizoCon last year and had a great time. Paizo is pretty progressive as an organization and makes an effort to be aware and responsive to this sort of thing. My expectation is that they would take complaints about harassment seriously and eject anyone accused of causing trouble.

Paizo's social awareness and progressive mindset is actually what endears them most to me. Deliberately creating representations of the world's cultures in their products and not just whitewashing it speaks well of them. I share your expectations, but as any Chelaxian knows, it's better to have it in writing.

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

The PaizoCon event policy is the top of the PaizoCon FAQ. Specifically regarding conduct and harassment:

...Goes on to state the Paizocon Event Policy...

Of course it would have been wise of me to include the already existing event policy, but as bdk86 pointed out, it isn't as comprehensive as I would have liked. It is a solid policy but there are some things that still need to be addressed.

Chris Lambertz wrote:

At PaizoCon, we strive to create a welcoming, fun, and friendly environment for attendees, staff, volunteers, and others who may be in the convention vicinity. Similarly to our policy for our online forum community, we reserve the right to remove any individual or group as necessary.

Our Community team, which I manage, strives to be an open ear for any community member, at any time, for any reason. We also work incredibly closely with Sara Marie, our Customer Service Manager (who manages many of the logistics for PaizoCon). If you're familiar with the tone and interactions with both of these teams via email, phone, or our forums, we hope that folks understand that our approach to support involves treating folks on an individual level as best as we can manage.

We hope that if people have questions, comments or concerns regarding PaizoCon, such as experiences that occurred at previous conventions, that they would contact either our Community team at community@paizo.com, one of the Community team members, or the convention organizers directly (Paizo COO Jeff Alvarez, Customer Service Manager Sara Marie, Community and Digital Content Director Chris Lambertz, or Community Manager Liz Courts). We are sensitive to the privacy of our community members and the experience of folks at PaizoCon is incredibly important to us.

Our specific policy regarding how we expect the community and our staff to behave at PaizoCon is outline in our program book as well online under the PaizoCon tab labeled "Policies & FAQ."

...Goes on to state the Paizocon Event Policy...

In the program book we also list out the contact numbers for convention emergencies, the number to get in touch with hotel security, local non-emergecy and emergency law enforcement, and the King County Sexual Assault Resource Center.

PaizoCon is not a "large" show; we do not have official security walking the floor, however, all of our employees should be aware of and able to assist with finding the appropriate channels for escalation. If you need to report a past incident, please let community@paizo.com or paizocon@paizo.com know about it, so that our staff can be aware of the issue.

Thank you for your prompt reply Chris.

I am in fact familiar with the tone the community team uses. It is at once professional and sympathetic, which is an admirable combination, and I haven't seen such an interaction in which I did not approve of Paizo's handling of the subject. All of the social progress displayed in the company's products is wholesale enforced in the community team's presentation and rhetoric. They're good people, and if anyone has anything they believe should be addressed, direct it to them.

I've bolded what I consider the most important part of Chris' post. In hindsight, it seems obvious that I should have referred people to the community team first, and not I, some unknown (and apparently self-absorbed) internet entity. In the end it is Paizo's Con, and it is utterly in their interest (as well everyone else's) to ensure everyone has a safe and fun Con.

Bahbrahb wrote:
Last year at Paizocon I was a witness to how quickly and appropriately Paizo employees to inappropriate behavior from a guy at a game I played in last year. That and the community was pretty great, aside from that one incident I didn't witness any gross behavior from people.

This is a good sign. Paizo being quick and effective in tense situations is exactly what people need to hear. It is the ultimate reassurance that the staff is a source of safety.

To Wrap This Text-Wall Up:
Thank you everyone for your opinions, concerns, testimonies and clarifications. Special Shout-Out to Chris Lambertz for giving everyone the info they need to know. As a personal footnote: While it is not Paizo's responsibility to educate people on social behaviors, I personally think having an itemized list of what constitutes "harassment" and "bullying" would be helpful. Things are easier to identify the simpler they are.

Thanks again to all who have posted, If anyone feels like contributing more, by all means go right ahead.

Community Manager

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Alayern, if there are specific things that we do not address in our Event Policy that you would like to talk about, please email community@paizo.com—we'd be happy to discuss it.

As one of the organizers of the very first unofficial PaizoCon, along with Tim Nightengale, I am very much invested in making sure that everyone has a safe and fun convention that captures the convivial nature of that first gathering and is respectful of all attendees, no matter their background, no matter where they are from, no matter their skill level and familiarity with games. I want to sit down at a table and roll the dice with new folks, and I want people coming to PaizoCon to be able to do so as well in a safe space. Our guidelines at the show will be the same ones that guide our interactions on the forums, and we expect our attendees to follow them.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Liz Courts wrote:

Alayern, if there are specific things that we do not address in our Event Policy that you would like to talk about, please email community@paizo.com—we'd be happy to discuss it.

As one of the organizers of the very first unofficial PaizoCon, along with Tim Nightengale, I am very much invested in making sure that everyone has a safe and fun convention that captures the convivial nature of that first gathering and is respectful of all attendees, no matter their background, no matter where they are from, no matter their skill level and familiarity with games. I want to sit down at a table and roll the dice with new folks, and I want people coming to PaizoCon to be able to do so as well in a safe space. Our guidelines at the show will be the same ones that guide our interactions on the forums, and we expect our attendees to follow them.

This is most reassuring.

With all the recent posts appearing on social media about problems with going to conventions, and this thread, and designers I know making dedications on social media about being safe at their table, I had started to question whether going to a con was safe at all anymore.

I have always wanted to attend a US game convention once in my life, a bucket list item. It has taken me to being 54 years old to fight my fears and my aspergers to book the trip and the one convention I thought I could manage was Paizocon due to a perceived "family" aspect of the con in all that I have read and seen over the years about it.

This is why, my one US convention is Paizocon and not GenCon - because everything I have read and seen tells me it is both safe for and understanding of people like myself.

I would like to think that the vast majority of Paizocon attendees are going for the game, to meet like minded individuals, to chat to designers and 3pps, and to meet their gaming stars (and maybe snag some autographs), that's why I am going.

For someone being 7,500 miles away from home in a strange land with different customs and is getting more nervous with every passing day and that impending flight, I truly appreciated your reassuring post.

Thank you Liz.


Anthony Adam wrote:

...and the one convention I thought I could manage was Paizocon due to a perceived "family" aspect of the con in all that I have read and seen over the years about it.

This is why, my one US convention is Paizocon and not GenCon - because everything I have read and seen tells me it is both safe for and understanding of people like myself.

I would like to think that the vast majority of Paizocon attendees are going for the game, to meet like minded individuals, to chat to designers and 3pps, and to meet their gaming stars (and maybe snag some autographs), that's why I am going.

I know you've read a lot about PaizoCon already, to get to the point of deciding it's the con for you, but I want to very strongly agree with your perception of it as a safe, 'family' sort of event. This year will be my fourth year attending, and every year I have been there with my son, who was 11 at his first PaizoCon, so I've kept an eye out for any causes for concern with having a young kid there. Everyone - players, GMs, Paizo staff - contribute to make it a fun, welcoming, very easy-going experience, where you can enjoy the very things you mention in your post. I think you've chosen very well.

The Exchange

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Frankly, I am disappointed that, in asking such a simple question about convention policies, the OP decided to refer to an article with such an "inclusive" title as "Tabletop Gaming has a White Male Terrorism Problem." I even more disappointed that SKR, a former employee of Paizo if I am not mistaken, apparently affiliated himself with such an offensively-titled article. If someone behaves in a boorish fashion during a tabletop game or during a convention, what does it matter what their gender or skin color is?

As a side note, if just about any other group were substituted for "white males" in that article, the hue and cry would have been deafening. If you want to preach tolerance, then practice what you preach.

Liberty's Edge Developer

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Mystic Madness wrote:

Frankly, I am disappointed that, in asking such a simple question about convention policies, the OP decided to refer to an article with such an "inclusive" title as "Tabletop Gaming has a White Male Terrorism Problem." I even more disappointed that SKR, a former employee of Paizo if I am not mistaken, apparently affiliated himself with such an offensively-titled article. If someone behaves in a boorish fashion during a tabletop game or during a convention, what does it matter what their gender or skin color is?

As a side note, if just about any other group were substituted for "white males" in that article, the hue and cry would have been deafening. If you want to preach tolerance, then practice what you preach.

Just because you can't see a problem doesn't mean that problem doesn't exist. Almost every woman I know who works in the industry reblogged or commented on that article and has similar stories to tell.

In the case of this article, the race and sex mention because that particular combination isn't held responsible for their actions despite the vast majority of women gamers I know having stories along those lines.

Project Manager

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Crystal Frasier wrote:
Mystic Madness wrote:

Frankly, I am disappointed that, in asking such a simple question about convention policies, the OP decided to refer to an article with such an "inclusive" title as "Tabletop Gaming has a White Male Terrorism Problem." I even more disappointed that SKR, a former employee of Paizo if I am not mistaken, apparently affiliated himself with such an offensively-titled article. If someone behaves in a boorish fashion during a tabletop game or during a convention, what does it matter what their gender or skin color is?

As a side note, if just about any other group were substituted for "white males" in that article, the hue and cry would have been deafening. If you want to preach tolerance, then practice what you preach.

Just because you can't see a problem doesn't mean that problem doesn't exist. Almost every woman I know who works in the industry reblogged or commented on that article and has similar stories to tell.

In the case of this article, the race and sex mention because that particular combination isn't held responsible for their actions despite the vast majority of women gamers I know having stories along those lines.

I reblogged that article. Almost every woman I know who works in tabletop reblogged/commented on it as well. (And no few of our male colleagues reblogged/commented on it as well, because they know it's true.)

Because most of us have lived at least parts of it.

Game companies and conventions can only do so much. The only way this changes is people refusing to protect people who harass, threaten, and assault, and the only way that happens is if the victims can talk publicly about their experiences. The only way this changes is the community changing.

If you're not harassing/assaulting/threatening women/people of color in games, not trying to prevent us from speaking, not trying to protect the people who do harass/assault/threaten, the discussion isn't about you, so I'm not sure why you're trying to make it about you.

Liberty's Edge

Starfinder Superscriber

As a white male, I don't have the problems shoved in my face, so I may not know about it.

My perception, however, is that in the roleplaying games hobby, the problem is not nearly as bad as it is in the video games hobby.

This may be colored by all the press that "gamergate" got, by the fact that the people I play with tend to have a pretty good gender mix (although, I must admit, there are only a couple of non-whites amongst my regular PFS crew). Also by the fact that PaizoCon is the major con I go to, which seems to be a very friendly Con run by a woman-owned company with a famously gender-diverse staff (although, again, I can't think of any non-white Paizo employees off of the top of my head).

I also play RPGs with other people more than video games. (Video games I tend more often to enjoy on my own.) Sometimes when I do get in a multiplayer video game environment with randomly chosen people, I hear really awful stuff (often from people whose voices make it clear that they're less than 15 years old). I don't tend to hear that in RPG environments.

I'm not denying that it's out there -- I'm not the sort of person who would be forced to come across it. I'm just guessing that things are worse for video gamers than they are for RPG gamers, based on what I have observed.

Liberty's Edge

Starfinder Superscriber
Jessica Price wrote:
If you're not harassing/assaulting/threatening women/people of color in games, not trying to prevent us from speaking, not trying to protect the people who do harass/assault/threaten, the discussion isn't about you, so I'm not sure why you're trying to make it about you.

To be fair to the person who objected to the title -- if you look at the biggest global terrorism problem we have right now, it would be reasonable to describe it as "the world has a Muslim terrorist problem". This is very different from saying "the world has a Muslim problem" or "all Muslims are terrorists", but a large number of people, including very prominent presidential candidates, have made exactly that connection. It's a logical fallacy, but people in general, especially in large groups, are not terribly good at logic.

However, if you see that people who start with "there are problems with Muslim terrorists" go to "there are problems with Muslims in general", it's not too hard to fear that people who start with "there is a White Male terrorism problem" will get to "white males are the problem".

I'm not saying that's what the people calling out racist/sexist behavior in gamers are doing, but given the use of the word "terrorism" and seeing what the loudest people decrying world terrorism are doing, it's not completely impossible to understand why people might hear more into it than was intended.

The Exchange

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What my post was about is the ugly side of political correctness, where it is apparently alright to specifically criticize a racial and gender group, as long as it is the correct group. While I recognize that gaming is a largely Caucasian-dominated hobby, does that mean that those of other races who choose to participate are never guilty of boorish behavior? I doubt it. Moreover, I have certainly seen boorish behavior by females from time to time.

If you have a problem with specific types of behavior, then specify that behavior and be done with it.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

However, if there is a behaviour that a subset of a group is performing that could be applied to an entire group, then the lesson of that smaller subset could be carried to the larger group.

I'd mentioned some of this to Alayern in private, but it bears mentioning in-thread.

No one is immune to harassment, no one gets a magic get out of mistreatment free' card.

By definition, I would be a white male gamer. And some of the same behaviours mentioned in the article have been applicable to gaming groups I've been in.

I can only be thankful not some of the more extreme ones.

When one is desperate for social interaction and the chance to be 'a part of a group', even as 'the group omega (in wolf-terms)', one is willing to put up with things that would be considered downright criminal.

I didn't realize how toxic some of my former gaming groups were until I started playing Pathfinder with some friends online, and PFS at conventions.

If I'd mentioned to one of my previous gaming groups that 'smoking was making me ill', for example, they would have lit up more.

In another previous group, one of the GMs took excessive pride in their binder of disgustingly disproportionate pictures and showed them off after game slots at a convention to folks they thought would be 'cool' with it, then would use that as a yardstick for how they dealt with individuals based on their reactions.

Another GM in a different campaign to this day has this habit of exceptional unwanted contact to the point of bruising(no matter gender, body-shape, or health). The only reason they stopped with me was because I slugged them back -- inappropriate response, but no means NO!

It's not just a 'white male problem'.

It's an industry concern, and I can't help but think that at least part of it can be attributed to the Gamer Inquisition that happened in the '80's in our area -- one would take whatever gaming group, allow a hideous amount of leeway on personal behaviour -- because hey, I'm gaming!.

EDIT: Is it something that needs to be addressed?

Yes.

Can we accept that starting the dialogue is more important than being pedantic about the start of the conversation and more concerned about the core topic?

I hope so.

Liberty's Edge

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Crystal Frasier wrote:
In the case of this article, the race and sex mention because that particular combination isn't held responsible for their actions despite the vast majority of women gamers I know having stories along those lines.

Your statement sounds like white males should be held responsible for other white males' actions. For what it's worth, I doubt you meant it that way, but that's how it sounds.

I'm sure that there's a lot of atrocious things happening to all kinds of minorities in gaming, from women to gays to trans people and whatever minorities I may be forgetting. And those should be addressed, not hushed up, and dealt with most harshly.

But I don't feel that Jack Bland from Illinois should be responsible for the rape Chuck Murder committed in California.

As rknop points out, 'white male terrorism' sounds a lot like 'muslim terrorism'. My hospital doctor or fellow infantryman isn't responsible for ISIS just because of their shared religion.


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It is easy to overlook things. In some cases the victim won't make an issue of it because they don't want further harassment. But we all know when something is wrong.

Don't be afraid to report questionable behavior, and say you aren't sure. If lots of people report something that's just a little off it forms a pattern. Some of those guys may be unaware of their actions, others may be "testing the waters" with a small violation to see how far they can go with different people.

I haven't been to Paizocon. But I have seen how they react to problems on the forums. I've seen how they try and be inclusive with their products. This gives me a good feeling that they will be responsive and professional about this.

Paizo Employee Pathfinder Society Lead Developer

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Samy wrote:
Crystal Frasier wrote:
In the case of this article, the race and sex mention because that particular combination isn't held responsible for their actions despite the vast majority of women gamers I know having stories along those lines.

Your statement sounds like white males should be held responsible for other white males' actions. For what it's worth, I doubt you meant it that way, but that's how it sounds.

I'm sure that there's a lot of atrocious things happening to all kinds of minorities in gaming, from women to gays to trans people and whatever minorities I may be forgetting. And those should be addressed, not hushed up, and dealt with most harshly.

But I don't feel that Jack Bland from Illinois should be responsible for the rape Chuck Murder committed in California.

As rknop points out, 'white male terrorism' sounds a lot like 'muslim terrorism'. My hospital doctor or fellow infantryman isn't responsible for ISIS just because of their shared religion.

I agree that the actions of two people connected by personal attributes (gender, ethnicity, hobby) but disconnected by distance or association should not be mutually indemnifying. At face value, I might agree with your saying "white males should not be held responsible for other white males' actions." However, that is not quite what I believe the message is (and I trust Crystal or others can clarify if needed). The idea is that when white male gamers do misbehave, others tend to excuse the behavior, look the other way, or even condemn the victim. When women or minorities speak out, they tend to be villified for "wanting attention" or "being too sensitive." When a fellow white male gamer speaks out against the offending behavior, it carries a different and—for reasons of social pressure, tribalism, bro code, et cetera—very significant weight.

When Crystal says that white male gamers are responsible for each other's actions, I hear that we are responsible for policing each other, recognizing that there is a problem (which requires acknowledging the testimony of the people who are the victims of such crude behavior), acknowledging that some behaviors are not healthy for making others feel welcome, and correct each other. Loudly denying that there is a problem—one that might not affect every woman or minority in the industry to the same degree but occurs frequently enough that we must combat the trend—lends the actual trouble-makers credibility and perpetuates the issue.

Community & Digital Content Director

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Hey, folks, this is trailing off into a discussion that really does not belong in the PaizoCon General Discussion forum. We have a very strong belief that our attendees should feel welcome while at our show, and that includes enforcing the policies I've stated above to do what we can to support those attendees. If you have any concerns with those policies, I'd be happy to answer any questions or take information back to our overall team to discuss. If you want to discuss the contents of the article in the original post, it really belongs in another thread, and I encourage you to re-read our Community Guidelines before starting or engaging in that conversation.


I had a pretty bad experience two years ago walking back to my hotel. I got a bit lost and got punched in the face by some kid. Then I got more lost. I spent five hours wandering the streets of Seattle, including a brief stint where I was walking on the highway because I was too tired to realize my hotel probably wasn't there, and then I finally registered that my mind map had been upside down all along and I'd been walking the opposite direction from my hotel the entire time. Okay, most of this is irrelevant, but that was a really bad night.

The point is, if you're rooming at a hotel nearby, the streets of Seattle can be kind of rough. Especially if you aren't used to big cities. I wasn't that far from the hotel when I ran into the guys, either, so walking back alone after dark probably isn't a great plan. My personal advice: If your game goes late and you don't have a car, ask if someone from the game can give you a ride. Better still, arrange something like that before the game starts. And there's always buses and taxis and stuff. But don't get punched in the face.

This isn't specific to the con, obviously. This is basic Big City Life 101. But apparently I needed to take a crash course before I learned the lesson. Staying at the con hotel these days.

Grand Lodge

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John Compton wrote:
Samy wrote:
Crystal Frasier wrote:
In the case of this article, the race and sex mention because that particular combination isn't held responsible for their actions despite the vast majority of women gamers I know having stories along those lines.

Your statement sounds like white males should be held responsible for other white males' actions. For what it's worth, I doubt you meant it that way, but that's how it sounds.

I'm sure that there's a lot of atrocious things happening to all kinds of minorities in gaming, from women to gays to trans people and whatever minorities I may be forgetting. And those should be addressed, not hushed up, and dealt with most harshly.

But I don't feel that Jack Bland from Illinois should be responsible for the rape Chuck Murder committed in California.

As rknop points out, 'white male terrorism' sounds a lot like 'muslim terrorism'. My hospital doctor or fellow infantryman isn't responsible for ISIS just because of their shared religion.

I agree that the actions of two people connected by personal attributes (gender, ethnicity, hobby) but disconnected by distance or association should not be mutually indemnifying. At face value, I might agree with your saying "white males should not be held responsible for other white males' actions." However, that is not quite what I believe the message is (and I trust Crystal or others can clarify if needed). The idea is that when white male gamers do misbehave, others tend to excuse the behavior, look the other way, or even condemn the victim. When women or minorities speak out, they tend to be villified for "wanting attention" or "being too sensitive." When a fellow white male gamer speaks out against the offending behavior, it carries a different and—for reasons of social pressure, tribalism, bro code, et cetera—very significant weight.

When Crystal says that white male gamers are responsible for each other's actions, I hear that we are responsible for policing each other, recognizing that...

HEAR! HEAR!

We are responsible for how other men act. Do you know why? Because we encourage it. We may not objectify or demean women ourselves, but how many of us can honestly say that we always tell other men who do so that its not appropriate or that its wrong. How many of us actually take a stand against harassment and abuse and sexual innuendo and jokes about women. Some of you are going to respond that keeping silent is not encouragement. You are wrong!!! Men who harass and abuse are not stopped by silence.

Silence is a choice, a choice to allow abuse and harassment to continue.

Silver Crusade

Anthony Adam wrote:
Liz Courts wrote:

Alayern, if there are specific things that we do not address in our Event Policy that you would like to talk about, please email community@paizo.com—we'd be happy to discuss it.

As one of the organizers of the very first unofficial PaizoCon, along with Tim Nightengale, I am very much invested in making sure that everyone has a safe and fun convention that captures the convivial nature of that first gathering and is respectful of all attendees, no matter their background, no matter where they are from, no matter their skill level and familiarity with games. I want to sit down at a table and roll the dice with new folks, and I want people coming to PaizoCon to be able to do so as well in a safe space. Our guidelines at the show will be the same ones that guide our interactions on the forums, and we expect our attendees to follow them.

This is most reassuring.

With all the recent posts appearing on social media about problems with going to conventions, and this thread, and designers I know making dedications on social media about being safe at their table, I had started to question whether going to a con was safe at all anymore.

I have always wanted to attend a US game convention once in my life, a bucket list item. It has taken me to being 54 years old to fight my fears and my aspergers to book the trip and the one convention I thought I could manage was Paizocon due to a perceived "family" aspect of the con in all that I have read and seen over the years about it.

This is why, my one US convention is Paizocon and not GenCon - because everything I have read and seen tells me it is both safe for and understanding of people like myself.

I would like to think that the vast majority of Paizocon attendees are going for the game, to meet like minded individuals, to chat to designers and 3pps, and to meet their gaming stars (and maybe snag some autographs), that's why I am going.

For someone being 7,500 miles away...

I believe you've made a good decision in deciding to attend PaizoCon. PaizoCon was my second convention, and it was honestly one of the best experiences I've had in a large gathering of people (my enormous and extremely loud family being the exception). I personally enjoyed the relatively small size of the convention and how approachable the staff was (I got to talk to Wesley Schneider while he was having coffee and drawing maps on the second day of the convention, which was awesome). GenCon was also fun, but incredibly taxing due to the massive amount of people that just always seemed to be there. I did enjoy myself overall, but I was much more comfortable at PaizoCon for the above stated reasons.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Phylotus wrote:

... I got to talk to Wesley Schneider while he was having coffee and drawing maps on the second day of the convention, which was awesome ...

Wow, just wow!

Actually seeing one of the stars at work... so very jealous right now.

Dark Archive

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Anthony Adam wrote:
Phylotus wrote:

... I got to talk to Wesley Schneider while he was having coffee and drawing maps on the second day of the convention, which was awesome ...

Wow, just wow!

Actually seeing one of the stars at work... so very jealous right now.

If Nic Logue asks you to go get him a soda, just... don't. Uh, um... yeah, just trust me on this one.

(But if you get the chance, do say hi. Mr. Logue is neat individual with great ideas about the game. Just don't go to the basement.)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Leg o' Lamb wrote:
Anthony Adam wrote:
Phylotus wrote:

... I got to talk to Wesley Schneider while he was having coffee and drawing maps on the second day of the convention, which was awesome ...

Wow, just wow!

Actually seeing one of the stars at work... so very jealous right now.

If Nic Logue asks you to go get him a soda, just... don't. Uh, um... yeah, just trust me on this one.

(But if you get the chance, do say hi. Mr. Logue is neat individual with great ideas about the game. Just don't go to the basement.)

Do we have a "Things that happened to me at Paizocon" thread? Because that sounds like the lead-in to a great and/or funny story!

My only con stories come from a single games con from way back when - back to 2nd edition Gencon UK at Camber Sands, where I once ran a game (and I think I may have had a few beers too many, ok, ok, I DID have a few too many...)

My game had some very "odd" encounters with players taking on a chocolate golem easter bunny, swimming in make believe swimming pools that you can only see or swim in thier undies while wearing fluffy playboy style bunny ears that were bright florescent pink - hey, I said I had had a few beers!)...

...the result of which was having to call for medical assistance because one of the players at the table found the scene so funny, he laughed so much that he almost collapsed a lung - requiring an oxygen mask and a 30 minute time out to help him recover!

Scared the c**p out of me at the time I can tell you. I can look back now, 26+ years or so later and smile about it because that chap became a life long friend who I still travel 300 miles 6 times a year to see and game with over long gaming weekends. I also ended up being best man at his wedding. I guess he just got my humor! >.<

Another one, same con, same players, same evening, had the party ballroom dancing with goblins that, looking back, are quite like Pathfinder goblins of today. Oh, the party were sixth level and took 15 rounds to finally defeat the 6x CR 1 goblins - heh heh, ask me why if you see me at the con, that's such a fun room, I'm only going to give the details to those that ask for them in person - and it would probably work just as well under Pathfinder - evil grin.

Oh, and if I ever introduce you to any of my gaming friends, ask them who Tyranthraxus is... and watch their reaction - LOL! You can ask about him too if you like.

And lastly, never ever let me GM for you if I have had a beer or three - it's... dangerous! >.<

Community & Digital Content Director

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Removed a few more posts. Folks, when Paizo staffers request you take a discussion elsewhere, please do so.

Dark Archive

Anthony Adam wrote:
Leg o' Lamb wrote:
Anthony Adam wrote:
Phylotus wrote:

... I got to talk to Wesley Schneider while he was having coffee and drawing maps on the second day of the convention, which was awesome ...

Wow, just wow!

Actually seeing one of the stars at work... so very jealous right now.

If Nic Logue asks you to go get him a soda, just... don't. Uh, um... yeah, just trust me on this one.

(But if you get the chance, do say hi. Mr. Logue is neat individual with great ideas about the game. Just don't go to the basement.)

Do we have a "Things that happened to me at Paizocon" thread? Because that sounds like the lead-in to a great and/or funny story!

I guess he just got my humor! >.<

It comes from a story at last year's "Horror in RPGs" seminar that had Wes blurt out "Jesus Christ, Nick!" or some such oath. Track me down and Ill tell you the rest of the story; it's a good 'un.

Grand Lodge

Chris Lambertz wrote:
Removed a few more posts. Folks, when Paizo staffers request you take a discussion elsewhere, please do so.

I apologize for posting on this thread last night. In my defense, it was midnight and I was tired and I had no idea where to start another thread on this subject. It was not my intent to start an argument, even though I know that there are people who disagree with my position. For future reference, what forum would be a good place to put a discussion thread on this topic?


Pathfinder Adventure, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I can't speak for Paizo (but every event I have ever attended) has been a safe space.

Not one of the GM and players (white males included) has put up with any behavior that wasn't PG13 or inappropriate.

Everyone at the table respects certain boundaries - now I have seen those who are socially inept, or even others who are clearly working through their own issues at the time, but the maliciousness and predatory salaciousness of the mentioned article - I can say I haven't seen any evidence of and as somebody whose; friends, wives, daughters and nieces attend events being safe is something I am vigilant about.

In attending PaizoCon myself, I found the people welcoming and really nice to be around (I have always thought that what happens in someone else's bedroom between consenting adults is their own business).

I understand that being polite to someone (just common courtesy) doesn't mean I am making a move on you, neither is noticing that you are wearing a costume - if you are dressed to impress - let me be impressed and let it go. Not every male (or female) is a predator - be mindful of your own baggage that you are bringing to the Con, the rest of us are just happy to share our time with a fellow player at the table we don't care about your skin colour or your sex or any other preference, we are simply there to have a good time with people that share our passion - and if you are lucky enough, with the people who create the stories we play.

If you feel uncomfortable - just find a GM, a Paizo rep, a volunteer or just the person next to you and speak up. You will be supported.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

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In case it helps people, my wife felt very safe, welcome, and accepted at PaizoCon both times she went with me. She is not a gamer, though she does know how to play, and was worried before our first trip together that she would feel unsafe without me by her side. She suffers from no small amount of anxiety in unfamiliar areas and around unfamiliar people.

She felt so welcome at PaizoCon that she had no anxiety attacks, felt safe enough to explore without me, and even made new friends. She also loved how she felt like she could approach any of the Paizo staff when she had a question or concern.

She also loved the fact that she discovered activities unrelated to gaming that aligned with a few of her other interests.

Liberty's Edge

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I am a white female, usually the only female gamer, and I started as a player. My now-husband got me started gaming when we got together at 16 years old. For most of my gaming years, I have been the only female. However, we now have many females in our PFS groups and our 11 yo daughter games as well (so does our 13 1/2 yo son).

I have only once, in many many years, felt like I wasn't wanted in a gaming group. That group was a mostly military-guys D&D 3.5 group and I was the only female (and mom) in the group. My dear husband (dh) didn't realize how chauvinistic and cruel one of his fellow military members was until then. And it was only that one soldier. All the rest welcomed us (me and our kids) to the group with open arms. Since that "white male" told me I was "a silly girl who only had stupid ideas" in front of everyone in the group, HE was kicked out. And everyone apologized for his conduct.

Dh and I are attending PaizoCon this year (our first Con ever!) and are volunteering as GMs. I know that I won't be worried about my vulnerability of having a broken foot; I'm not scared. I feel more comfortable with Pathfinder members than with any other gamers I've been around.

Yes, things can happen. Yes, they are mostly bad things. !BUT! Even if my body gets hurt, I won't let them take away my spirit. "No one can make you feel bad unless you let them," said Eleanor Roosevelt. Or something like that.

What I'm saying is: Don't be afraid. Go in with your eyes open and don't keep your hands in your pockets all the time. Plan for the worst, but expect the best.

And above all, If you aren't having fun, why are you here?

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