Penalty For Firing a Ranged Weapon at Melee Range


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I know it's common in RPGs for there to be a penalty (-2 or -4) to firing a ranged weapon (such as a bow, crossbow, firearm, etc.) when you're 5 feet from your target. Does this apply to Pathfinder? I'm having trouble finding a for sure answer in the books.

So, my question is in Pathfinder when using a ranged weapon, can you fire at your target if they are 5 feet away without a penalty, or is there a penalty?

Thank you very much.


No penalty, but you do provoke an attack of opportunity.


I know what you're thinking of, OP. Our group used to play Spycraft, which had a -4 to shoot into melee, a -4 to shoot out of melee ... and if you're shooting at your own melee, they stacked. But as Jeraa said, your only penalty shooting at someone you're in melee with is the attack of opportunity you just gave them.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thank you very much!


Don't forget that there is a penalty for firing into melee, which means if your attack someone who threatens you, that you do take that penalty which is a -4. That's what precise shot is for.

But no, you don't take another penalty for firing in melee besides provoking an AoO.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

@Claxon - What's the difference between firing at a target who is 5 feet away, and firing into Melee at someone who is threatening?

I guess my question is when do you get the -4 and when do you get the AoO?

Thanks.


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I should probably go reread it all, but from memory, it seems to me that the -4 penalty for firing "into melee" applies to firing, from a distance, into the turmoil that is a melee involving others - some of whom may be allies. Seems to me there's something in that about hitting an ally instead of the enemy you're presumably trying to hit, but I may be remembering another game system on that.

I think you get the -4 when you're firing into a melee, and you get the AoO, or rather your enemy does, when *you* are in melee (i.e., within 5 feet of an enemy). It's possible to get both.


You get the penalty:

Quote:
If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character,

That language sure seems to imply that the target needs to be engaged with an ally that is not yourself.

Also, mechanically you don't have any more chance of hitting yourself if they target is 5' away, and you don't provide soft cover for your own ranged attacks, so it's hard to see why you would get the -4.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I understand now. Thank you, everyone.

Silver Crusade

Technically, you're always your own ally. So for spells and stuff that say they affect "all allies within 50 feet" or whatever, they affect you, as well.

But I do think the -4 to fire into melee does reflect a penalty for being careful not to hit your ally, and it's safe to say there's not a concern of hitting yourself. As a GM, I'd rule that if the enemy you're shooting is only in melee with you, and none of your other allies, that you can ignore that -4, but I'm not sure if that's really spelled out explicitly in the rules.

Also, someone mentioned soft cover, so I'll point out that the -4 penalty from soft cover and the -4 penalty for firing into melee are different penalties, and they do stack.

But the important point here is that there are feats that deal with all of this. Precise Shot gets rid of the -4 for firing into melee. Improved Precise Shot lets you ignore cover, other than complete cover. And I'm pretty sure there's a feat to avoid provoking an AOO for firing while threatened, but now I can't remember what it's called.


Fromper wrote:
Technically, you're always your own ally. So for spells and stuff that say they affect "all allies within 50 feet" or whatever, they affect you, as well.

Except when it doesn't make sense. This is probably one of those cases.

Another would be the Bodyguard feat.


Fromper wrote:

...

And I'm pretty sure there's a feat to avoid provoking an AOO for firing while threatened, but now I can't remember what it's called.

Point Blank Master.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Penalty For Firing a Ranged Weapon at Melee Range All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.