Mystic Theurge on a stick


Advice


CG Human Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 10 (stats were rolled for quite some time ago)

Str 12
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 20
Wis (Starting at 13) ---> 17
Cha 16

Class Features:
Arcane Bond: Familiar
Arcane School: Teleportaion
Cantrips
Scribe Scroll
Opposition School: Necromancy, Evocation
Shift 10 ft. (8/day)
Summoner's Charm (+2 rounds)
Aura (Chaos, Good)
Channel Energy 2d6 (4/day)
Domains: Knowledge, Plant
Lore Keeper (+4)
Wooden Fist +1 (4rounds/day)
Combined Spells (5th)
Spell Synthesis

Feats:
SF: Conjuration
Augment Summoning
Improved Initiative
Combat Reflexes
Leadership
Sacred Summons
Extend Spell
Craft Wondrous Items
Quicken Spell

Spells Per day: (Cleric includes domain spells)
L - 0 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7
W - 5 - 7 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 5 - 3 - 2
C - 4 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2

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This is a character mentioned from a previous thread who is in a campaign that isn't optimized by any standards. My gm let me redo 9 levels of my character along with everyone else's since we just got a taste of high level content, and wish for kind of a reset. The dm is focused more on RP, and there is a reason as to why I chose Mystic Theurge.

My goal for this character is to cast as many spells in one turn as I can, while having the biggest pool of spells to choose from as I can possibly obtain. My group already has a Fighter, Ranger, Cleric, Druid, and Rogue, so we have all bases covered. In game, my MS is trying to utilize multiple sources of magic in order to increase his power so that he may help those in need. He had to pay a price to a goddess in order to gain the cleric levels, and one of her tolls was that my character use a longspear in combat.

The Deity's name is Angharradh, and her domains are as follows.

Chaos, Elf, Good, Hope, Knowledge, Plant, Protection, Renewal

Yes, she is a Forgotten Realms deity. I know this. Bare with me.

What I'm asking you guys is to help me make this work. I'm running into some issues with this, and though I'm unable to change the class levels and the god of choice, I can work with pretty much everything else. I just need some help making this character viable.

Note: If I go with a spell storing longspear, and I strike on an AoO, can I cast the spell inside of it?


With a +1 Longspear, you're at +9 to hit at level 16. So that's mostly for show, right?

With only 9 levels to redo, there's not a lot you can meaningfully change.


Velithin wrote:
Note: If I go with a spell storing longspear, and I strike on an AoO, can I cast the spell inside of it?

Yes.

spell storing wrote:
Anytime the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires.

(Emphasis mine.) Note you do have to get past any DR they have.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Velithin wrote:
Note: If I go with a spell storing longspear, and I strike on an AoO, can I cast the spell inside of it?

Yes.

spell storing wrote:
Anytime the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires.
(Emphasis mine.) Note you do have to get past any DR they have.

The issue is not being able to take free actions outside your turn. But IMO yes.


Manly-man teapot wrote:

With a +1 Longspear, you're at +9 to hit at level 16. So that's mostly for show, right?

With only 9 levels to redo, there's not a lot you can meaningfully change.

That's when you use a spell like Spellsword to get around it. I've already discussed this with my DM.

The way it would work, I'd put a staff of something in the longspear. Then, instead of going off of AC for hitting, I would use Touch AC. As a result, I can put a spell onto the spellstoring longspear, while it holds the staff inside. We didn't cover the whole "does the longspear activate the staff spell and the stored spell at the same time when attacking" bit, and honestly, I think that might be a bit broken...


I don't think I would bother with a weapon. My mystic theurge in wrath of the righteous uses a mithril buckler +5 for +6 to AC and a cestus to provide flanking.

Scarab Sages

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Velithin wrote:

Bare with me.

What I'm asking you...

I'm down for naked time, but I don't think this is the time or place...

As for the question of using Spellsword to deliver a touch effect from the rod/staff, that is not going to trigger spell storing, because you are not hitting with the weapon. You don't use the weapons damage on the attack, so it would not apply any riders either.


Okie dokie. Duly noted.

In any case, since the spear is what I've done rp wise, and it can't really be changed at this point, what do you guys suggest I do to make this character more powerful in combat?

Domain suggestions? Feat changes? Outside the box ideas?

I'd appreciate any assistance on this.


I would look at eclisitheurge cleric from ACG, and consider a bonded object over famialar.

Scarab Sages

Well, since Angharradh's Favored Weapon is the Longspear, You can take the Guided Hand feat to use Wisdom to Hit with it. Your BAB still sucks, but it's something.

Even still, you don't make a MT for melee ability.


The problem with a Thuerge is they suck in Pathfinder. I have had two players who have played them and did nothing but complain about that they sucked. They offer almost nothing in return for what they take away. Almost no meaningful Domain abilities loss of channeling healing or damage and school and bonus feats are never acquired. Another loss is the Bonded item stays stuck at whatever Wizard level you are.
There are better Prestige Classes I'd take over a Thuerge. Or better yet stay Wizard Cleric for ten levels each. You lose higher levels spells but you gain other abilities you would never gain as a Thuerge. Another option which I think will still stick with your theme is Occultist. An archtype makes their spells Divine needing Wis instead of Int. They get a wide variety of spells similar to being a dual class Wizard Cleric. The focus schools all offer some interesting abilities as well. The archtype also offers a Domain with the spells as well. You will lack the amount of spells of a Wizard but you will have the versatility of both a Wizard and Cleric. You lose one ability and that's the channel.


It would be pretty cool if MT was a 3rd level PRC (even though PRCs are meant to be 5th level+, and regular MT is 6th level). The first MT level would not progress spells, but would progress domain powers and give some sort of special MT-specific ability, such as reduced arcane spell failure in armor or casting two spells at once 1/2 level times a day or something. Or let you consolidate your casting stats, so you determine DCs and bonus spells with one casting stat (but still uses your original stat for spell levels known).

Real Mts are pretty bad, though.


Having recently developed an interest in playing a Mystic Theurge, myself, I scoured the boards looking for advice until I found something that's incredibly broken... except quite probably for a Mystic Theurge.

Inner Sea Magic introduced Spellcaster Guilds, which grant access to a pair of easily-acquired and incredibly powerful boons: Eclectic Training and Esoteric Training.

Eclectic Training wrote:
Eclectic Training (5 Fame): Guilds often require members to master and train in different subjects. When your Fame score in a guild reaches 5, choose one spellcasting class you have at least 1 level in—you increase your effective caster level in that class (including the number of spells you know and can cast per day) by +1, to a maximum caster level equal to your total Hit Dice. Single-classed spellcasters should still pick a class to which this bonus applies, since this bonus is retroactive.
Esoteric Training wrote:
Esoteric Training (35 Fame): The bonus to caster level you gain from Eclectic Training increases to +3 (but is still limited by your total Hit Dice). You may select a second spellcasting class to gain a +1 bonus to effective caster level.

5 Fame is easily acquired by level 5 (heck, it's easily acquired by level 2), allowing you to go 3 levels in cleric or wizard and 2 in the other class, ending up at an effective 3/3 at level 5, qualifying you for MT.

By around level 7 or so, you hit 35 Fame, increasing your base effective spellcasting level for your 2-level class to 5, and your 3-level class to 4. You add to that your 2 levels of MT, and your spellcasting is effectively at 7 in one class and 6 in the other (hooray, full casting! You still have terrible class features!)

At level 15, you take your 10th level in MT, and are an effective 15/14.

At 16, you take another level in your 3-level class to get to 15/15.

Then 17 & 18, you take 2 levels in one of your classes to get to 17/15, then at 19 & 20, you take two more levels in the other class and hit 17/17 at level 20 for 9th level spells in both classes! You still have terrible class features, though.

It's not for everyone, but should I go with this build, the Spellslinger archetype for wizard actually isn't awful, since it scales very well regardless of your wizard level, and you have plenty of spells to burn to buff your gun. There aren't a whole lot of useful cleric spells you can blast out of your gun, but it's still fun when it comes up.

All that said, good luck getting someone to allow Spellcasting Guilds at your table. They're probably fine/necessary for the MT, but they're seriously broken for anyone else.

I proposed converting them to feats, but then you're entering houserule territory...

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