^That probably should have been a feature of Feyspeaker Druid.
Yes it should have been....
TBH I doubt whether there will be any new classes for quite a few years (if at all). Already a few of the existing hybrid classes were debatable in terns of being able to justify an entire new class.
And no disresepct to those involved but loads of the suggestions I've seen just dont carve out a sufficient enough niche to be distinct, failing IMO on the key criteria for a new class.
The new Wildshaper class definitely has a niche and I can see development potential regarding archetypes, but I just cant see Paizo doing anymore.
I do agree that the design space for new and mechanically distinct classes is growing smaller, but I think we'll see one or two continue come out every year or two as long as Pathfinder is around and supported. Classes tend to often be the most "hyped" element of a new book, and as long as rule books continue to sell and be supported there is going to be a demand for more classes. I really only see this trend ending if the rulebook line has its yearly releases scaled back by quite a bit and the company emphasizes Starfinder more (or we get a significantly new edition of Pathfinder).
I am sure we will get some new classes after the Shifter, now how long after is debatable;)
A class with features related to channeling the quintessence from the planes would be interesting for Planar Adventures.
And I would also like to see a Medium/Summoner hybrid class. A class that actually summons the legends to fight in the battlefield, like the heroic spirits from the Fate franchise.
Gold S, can you be more specific about that class idea for planar adventures?
Summoning the spirits of legendary heroes would be interesting.
Gold S, can you be more specific about that class idea for planar adventures?
Summoning the spirits of legendary heroes would be interesting.
While I didn't put any deep thought about it, when I said the class could be based on channeling the planes quintessence, I was thinking that the planes and the outsiders are all made of it (outsiders form from souls filled with the planes quintessence), so maybe a class that can channel quintessence into and out of its soul to borrow the planes' "powers" and even shift into a quasi-outsider from time to time, and actually become outsiders as the highest class feature.
I actually had the Mystic Connection Powers in mind when I thought about the class.
^What about some kind of Cleric-Druid hybrid (Cleric archetype) that replaces 1 Domain with a Planar Wild Shape ability (starts out like Wild Shape but limited to only using it with the feat of the same name, but eventually becomes able to take the form of alignment-compatible Outsiders). Replaces the normal Channel Energy with Alignment Channel (but fix the rules text for this so that it actually makes sense -- supposed to apply heal to your chosen alignment and apply harm to the opposite alignment, not apply both to your chosen alignment like the current text states). The remaining Domain is tied to the chosen Outsider type, but you don't get Domain spell slots for it and instead have to prepare the Domain spells in normal spell slots.
Actually a planar shifter archetype for the shifter class would make a lot more sense. Now if he wants a outsider themed class that is more like a upgraded version of a sorcerer bloodline then a class idea I mentioned earlier in this wish list would work as well.
Classes specifically for playing powerful races.
Now I know you can pseudo play these through Druid, shapechange spells and specific archetypes but people really underestimate the feel of class, a player may never play a Druid but may jump at the chance to play an alchemist archetype that is mechanically inferior if it gives him a mechanical pet. The idea of actually being a member of these races.
Different races with archetypes to define roles.
Vampire / caster archetype, rogue archetype.
Giant / melee archetype, cleric archetype
Outsider / Melee, sorcerer caster
Fey, etc
or others but I'm just listing what I assume would be popular
I would love to see the supposed master of magic, the Mystic Theurge redone.
I like the premise of it, but the execution was significantly flawed.
It kind of sucks as it sits, as there is no way that it can get to 9th level spells in both of its classes.
This kind of denies the aspect of it being the master of magic.
My GM's that I tend to use in FTF games refuse to use the 3rd party stuff, and will only accept actual pathfinder labeled books and classes.
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A Sage class would be interesting, it could fill that mystic theurge concept.
We have a class that focuses on music, dance, etc. but what about art. It would be cool to see paintings that summon/create or as doors/windows to other lands, realms, dimensions, etc. sculptures that come to life, paper weapons/armor that are as strong as steal, using paint brushes and other artist tools as effective weapons, bypassing a construct's DR/hardness, controlling any works of art(and/or constructs in general), magically controlling paint, exploding pottery, and much more. It would be too complex to have as an archetype, not that I wouldn't like to see such as a bard archetype, just that it would take up too much space for one.
Probably mentioned once or twice but a class that takes the concept of Rage powers and applies them to Challenges. Basically a class where Challenge/Smite isn't just icing on the cake but a major focus which includes powers that activate during a challenge or similar.
^Sounds like a souped-up Cavalier, and also sounds like the idea I have been toying with to make Paladin a prestige class that bases its Smite on base class features like Challenge -- after you get into the prestige class, Smite becomes available as a rider you put on top of Challenge (like Mercy is already a rider that you put on top of Lay On Hands).
A pet-based class without magic. I just want to tell a story about a boy and his overprotective murder-pet.
I would love a pet based class with no magic wich is what I was hoping the hunter class would have been. Specifically if the class is a full martial class and maybe even has a cha based monk-like AC bonus.
^I can't help you with the monk-like AC(*), but Huntmaster Cavalier is full martial (with no spells) and has a full progression Animal Companion (although rather limited set of choices).
(*)Actually, you get a piece of monk-like AC if you go VMC Monk, but only at very high level, so that doesn't usually help, and surviving until then would be a real stinker.
The worst thing about it is that it would be so amazingly easy to make, that it marvels me that Paizo has not done so yet. The hunter is a pretty ideal frame for it, so releasing an archetype that replaces its spell-casting for another class feature would pretty much fix it.
I would also like the pet to be a magical beast instead of an animal. Though this could be done by having a base animal with a list of abilities to choose from or actual stats for existing magical beast like griffons, owlbears, etc.
Well not the exact same powers;) I could see some interesting variation.
Personally I would like the LN and CN versions of the paladin myself:)
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I kind of want to see the mechanic ported over to Pathfinder as a tinker class. With the upcoming shifter class that seems to be one of the biggest "holes' in design and concept space to build a class.
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I kind of want to see the mechanic ported over to Pathfinder as a tinker class.
For those that are OK with material from companies other than Paizo, there is the Tinkerer class in the soon to be released (as in, next month :) New Paths Compendium harcover.
A pet-based class without magic. I just want to tell a story about a boy and his overprotective murder-pet.
You might check out the Spell-less Ranger class in the above mentioned New Paths Compendium. That's very much what the class is (and there are a number of cool animal companion feats in the book as well).
I would love to see the supposed master of magic, the Mystic Theurge redone.
My GM's that I tend to use in FTF games refuse to use the 3rd party stuff, and will only accept actual pathfinder labeled books and classes.
That's a shame, because the Theurge base class in the New Paths Compendium is exactly that :)
I still hope to one day see a spontaneous cha based 9th level caster with the druid's spell list. Basically the sorcerer/oracle version of the druid class with some interesting mechanics of it's own. Maybe a totem animal as it's version of a bloodline/mystery.I almost never agree with you, but this right here is your best idea yet.
That exactly what the Spirit Shaman in the New Paths Compendium is!
With the upcoming shifter class ...
There's also the Skin-Changer in the New Paths Compendium :)
This is a wish list for Pathfinder classes from Paizo. I would like you not to post anything related to 3rd party products.
Channeling quintessence could be a kineticist archetype.
A castingless pet could be fun, but you would have to differentiate it from the Cavalier
A planar shifter would be awesome
I do agree that the design space for new and mechanically distinct classes is growing smaller, but I think we'll see one or two continue come out every year or two as long as Pathfinder is around and supported. Classes tend to often be the most "hyped" element of a new book, and as long as rule books continue to sell and be supported there is going to be a demand for more classes. I really only see this trend ending if the rulebook line has its yearly releases scaled back by quite a bit and the company emphasizes Starfinder more (or we get a significantly new edition of Pathfinder).
Paizo relationship with Pathfinder is at a critical point. Bloat is a very real danger. New material without real substance is horrendous for the brand.
New classes is a very delicate area. Any new class has to be a bona fide distinct entity, more than capable of generating additional bona fide archetypes. If it can't do BOTH of these then its a guaranteed sign that either:
a) Its a non-concept
b) Its a concept thats best dealt with an archetype
When I read people stating the urgent need for things like a 'an entirely new class based on a paladin crossed with an alchemist'.... I just LOL and die inside!
New classes for the sake of new classes will cause Pathfinder to just wither and die. If theyre not valid and have growth potential then they have no business in the game.
I mean FFS Ive seen enough archetypes that were highly dubious!!
I would so much rather Paizo got Starfinder up and running and scaled back on new releases for Pathfinder. Quality over quantity any day of the week.
Alternatively a PF2 which puts all the errata in one place and sorts out a lot of the long running leaks is something that is increasingly needed IMO.
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Bloat isn't real;) As all things beyond core, it is optional.
New classes doesn't kill a system, but the lack of new options for those classes can.
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This is a wish list for Pathfinder classes from Paizo. I would like you not to post anything related to 3rd party products.
Hi Dragon78. I know you've mentioned this before, and while you started the thread, it's also clear from many of the other people posting in (or just reading) the thread that there are plenty of folks who DO use non-Paizo material. When someone from a non-Paizo company posts about a class, it's simply so that the many folks in this thread who are OK with 3PP material can be made aware of a Pathfinder compatible class or classes that might very well be exactly what they are looking for.
I absolutely respect your desire to remain Paizo only, but not everyone feels the same. This is a public forum, and it seems like perhaps it simply might have have evolved a bit beyond what you personally want from it. Please feel free to simply disregard any posts about classes from companies other than Paizo.
If a new class cant naturally generate viable and meaningful options then by definition it shouldnt be a new class....
Thank you, Marc! My group is usually quite mature and we try to use our good sense of judgement on 3rd party material, so this is really helpful! I will have to bring the spell-less ranger up at my next session.
Thank you, Marc! My group is usually quite mature and we try to use our good sense of judgement on 3rd party material, so this is really helpful! I will have to bring the spell-less ranger up at my next session.
Personally Ive always dilsiked the Ranger with spells. My vision of the Ranger has always been a more skills based fighter that was inherently better with a bow and gained nature based special abilities as they levelled up...
Marc, if you respect my desire for this to be Paizo specific wish list then ether PM the ones looking for third party stuff and/or make a similar section in the third party section of this site.
I would love to see another hardcover book with 5+ new classes in them. Though the only way I can see them doing that now is if they are all unchained classes.
It is far more likely to see Unchaining than brand new classes.
Objectively there really are only a couple of concepts left IMO that are truly worthy of being a new class...... and one of them has been done with the new Shifter class. This from what I understand fills the thematic gap of paladin for the nature classes (albeit with no spells)??
And TBH even with Unchaining, how many classes are truly in need??
And then it depends on the idea of PF2. This could essentially incorporate some class unchaining along with errata updating and some minor tweaks.
There are very very few genuine gaps left in the current class set up. Too mnay people confuse an idea for a new class with one that is in esssence an archtype of an existing class.
Ps Some of the stuff Marc has put out has indeed been excellent.
Of course!
What class (as opposed to archetype idea) do you think is a glaring gap in terms of the current set up?
The shifter fills the niche of a shapeshifting martial class that focuses on natural attacks in both natural and polymorphed forms. It might also gain some kind of unarmored AC bonus as well so if it does it would fill another niche I have been looking for.
If a new class cant naturally generate viable and meaningful options then by definition it shouldnt be a new class....
Outside of the Shifter, what else do you think fills a missing niche?
of the obvious empty holes, the shifter fills one. The vigilante fills the "spy" class niche I've always felt needed filling.
The construct buddy is really the last obvious concept I can easily imagine that could work as a class allowing lots of archetypes and which work in existing Pathfinder. On the other hand, there have been many unique niches that I didn't identify before there release, like the Investigator for instance.
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Other missing niches could be...
-A non-spell casting healing class.
-The druid version of the sorcerer/oracle type class.
-Full martial psychic based class.
-Inventor/Tinker class maybe with construct companion.
-Tarzan/Jungle Girl martial class.
-Martial hex using witch themed class.
-Bloodline focused class.
-Martial class with animal/magical beast companion.
-Dragon rider/dragon master type class.
-Arcane/Divine versions of the spell power/supernatural power class.
-Super defense focused martial class.
-Non-spell casting psychic class(es) focused on things like telepathy, empathy, etc.
-Art/painting/sculpting focused class.
-Mime/mimic themed class.
-Magic absorbing/stealing/deflecting/dispelling class.
-Monster/blue mage themed class.
-Ki focused class like a ki master or ki caster.
-Luck based class, maybe a jester class.
-Class that uses money as a weapon/defense like a merchant class.
-A song mage class that completely focuses on bardic music.
Other missing niches could be...
-A non-spell casting healing class.
-The druid version of the sorcerer/oracle type class.
-Full martial psychic based class.
-Inventor/Tinker class maybe with construct companion.
-Tarzan/Jungle Girl martial class.
-Martial hex using witch themed class.
-Bloodline focused class.
-Martial class with animal/magical beast companion.
-Dragon rider/dragon master type class.
-Arcane/Divine versions of the spell power/supernatural power class.
-Super defense focused martial class.
-Non-spell casting psychic class(es) focused on things like telepathy, empathy, etc.
-Art/painting/sculpting focused class.
-Mime/mimic themed class.
-Magic absorbing/stealing/deflecting/dispelling class.
-Monster/blue mage themed class.
-Ki focused class like a ki master or ki caster.
-Luck based class, maybe a jester class.
-Class that uses money as a weapon/defense like a merchant class.
-A song mage class that completely focuses on bardic music.
I mean I like a lot of these ideas, but also think they could be really difficult to pull off in Pathfinder. A non-magical healer for instance is an obvious conceptual niche (even more so in Starfinder), but then you run up into the problems no one really wants to be a party healer, and a non-magical class that also doesn't do spellcasting would be painfully weak compared to other classes.
Classes like a spontaneous druid have the opposite problem: Mechanically they make sense, but what sort of unique character concept do they fill that is not filled by existing classes. Arcanist makes mechanical sense but just doesn't feel particularly unique compared to existing classes (Honestly feels more like an unchained wizard than anything else).
I mean again I think there is design space for more classes, but I doubt we will see more than 2 new classes in any future Pathfinder hardcover.
I didn't say non-magical healer, I said non-spell casting healer, if focused on channels, lay on hands, and various spell like abilities/supernatural powers then it could be very good. Of course it would get other options for non-healing but it's main focus would be as a healer.
I would say Kinetic Chirurgeon counts as a non-casting healer.
But like all kineticist archetypes, it sucks. As I have said before no archetype have come close to many of the things I am looking for.
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What class (as opposed to archetype idea) do you think is a glaring gap in terms of the current set up?Of course!
I've actually given this subject a HUGE amount of thought over the years (as you might expect!). I think gaps include a spontaneous-style druid of some kind; an armor-less, non-weapon using, heavy spell caster style cleric; a warlock-style class, etc
Of course, the classes I felt were viable ideas but did not exist in the game are pretty much all now in the New Paths Compendium - that's *why* they were created in the first place :)
Like I said before, a spontaneous caster version of the druid could have a totem animal/totem spirit/totem spirit animal type mechanic that would be like the sorcerer bloodline and/or oracle mystery.
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That is literally, exactly what the Spirit Shaman in the New Paths Compendium is ... for those folks interested in non-Paizo material.