Wishlist for New Classes


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Grond wrote:
It also is like the Shadowknight class in EQ and EQ2 or the Reaver class in Dark Age of Camelot.

Yes, more SK please.

Related stuff:

Been considering homebrewing a line of spells called leech light wounds where you deal 1d4+1 per level up to +5, and heal your self the same amount. There would be a leech for every level of cure (moderate, critical, serious, etc.) even up to mass. These would be arcane, necromancy school spells...
This would help out with mimicking the Shadow Knight's life taps, and isn't too far different from existing mechanics...


what does SK mean?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

See above :P

Dark Archive

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Non-spellcasting shapechanger. Barbarian/Druid/Lycanthrope? hybrid.

The game has a way to make almost any concept or trope work so far: S Holmes (Investigator, Master Spy), Captain America (Brawler Sheld dude), Achilles (Destined Bloodrager) etc. for example.

But there is no way to make a non-casting full BAB shapechanger.

Archetypes can spread the difference between:

- A pure monstrous Hulk type ( with no Alchemy). Maybe what the Sythesist Summoner should have been?

- A Cha-based Mystique type, maybe some Bardic/Mesmerist skills.

- A nature animal wearer. Druid and Ranger skills.

- A standard but competent werething fighter. Like a Brawler but more restricted.

- An Occult adventures nightmare changer thing.

I don't want to see a Paizo-made artificer. As a GM I hate crafting magic items already, I would give those PCs zero downtime out of spite.

Liberty's Edge

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Captain K. wrote:

Non-spellcasting shapechanger. Barbarian/Druid/Lycanthrope? hybrid.

The game has a way to make almost any concept or trope work so far: S Holmes (Investigator, Master Spy), Captain America (Brawler Sheld dude), Achilles (Destined Bloodrager) etc. for example.

But there is no way to make a non-casting full BAB shapechanger.

If you are OK with non Paizo material, might I suggest checking out the Skin Changer in the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press

The Skin Changer is an alternate of the popular Spell-less Ranger class, so it is indeed a full BAB, non-spellcasting shapechanger :)

From Endzeitgeist' review:
"The Spell-less ranger also gets a variant class herein, the skin-changer - this one's interesting: Learning to change into the forms and animals and specializes in better natural attacks. No animal companion, though, and a different list of talents. The skin-changer also gets natural armor etc. - per se a concept none too complex in what it tries to do, but remains very evocative in its versatile options - the variant class remains one of the more iconic ones I've seen and makes for a great addition - once again - fine work indeed!"

From a Drivethru RPG review
"There is also a variant that was released with this book called the Skin Changer and it is one that I have been wanting to try out so badly. This variant trades out the favored enemy, combat style, and animal companion of a Spell-less Ranger with the ability to essentially wild shape into animals that scales like a druid so it actually feels pretty balanced and a ton of fun if you are into playing a shifter without contracting a terrible were- disease."


Intelligence based 9 level caster who does research like someone with their doctorate. Essentially a wizard but more narrow in their scope with greater abilities for it. Which is why I'm designing the class myself from the ground up.


A rage based caster. Sith lord style, not the "I'm an angry buffer" bloodrager. Doesn't have to be great (or good) at combat.

A shifter.

A magic stealer... I will probably post something on the last one in a few days.


Couldn't some of the suggestions be converted into archetypes instead? I feel like some do.


Some could be archetypes, some couldn't be archetypes, and maybe some could be combined into a class;)


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If the kineticist is the psychic magic version of a class that focuses on spell like and supernatural abilities then I would like to see what a arcane and divine versions would be like.


I would like to see an actual Pirate class with a few abilities from Rogues and few from the Swashbuckler. More then likely a martial class with uncanny dodge(and improved), charmed life, adds half there level with skills like appraise, bluff, profession(sailor), swim, etc. Also some spell like powers at higher levels like summoning sea creatures, controlling water, wind, and weather would be interesting. Getting bonus feats like improved steal, improved trip, improved dirty tricks, etc. plus additional bonuses with those combat maneuvers. Maybe something like rogue talents but pirate themed. Maybe gets save bonuses against the special abilities of aquatic creatures, curse effects, etc. Also bonuses while piloting and/or fighting on a ship.


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I'd like to see a Full Bab Necromancer class. The Bloodrager comes close, but a Necromancer (in my mind) is pretty much defined by whether or not they can cast Animate Dead. A Bloodrager can't do that until 10th level.

I want to see the "lead from the front" Necromancer.

A thought on how to do it would be an Antipaladin Archetype that gives up Fiendish Boon and one of their Auras for the ability to cast Animate Dead a couple times a day, and an Aura of Desecration.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That´s a pretty cool idea Doomed Hero!

There´s of course oracles who can be a bit similar, but they don´t have the front line abilities like Antipaladins.


You know a martial focused necromancer could fit with my wish for a arcane version of the spell like/supernatural focused class. That way you could have school specialization instead of the element focus like kineticist.


Here's my take on a 'magic thief' class. Comments, concerns and cookies all appreciated.


Squiggit wrote:

I've been kind of on a final fantasy kick lately, so...

I want a Red Mage. Mix of martial ability, healing/buffing magic and offensive/debuffing magic. Just a bit of each. Like.. some hybrid of bard and magus I guess. Or something.

And a few sprinkles of Monk/Brawler.

I want a class that mixes of Rogue, Vigilante and the Generic Classes (D&D 3.5 UA) in some way.


Arcane spell power/supernatural class could get...

Abjuration- You get a constant mage armor, create protective barriers, ward/glyph locations, etc.

Conjuration- You could have the summoner's summoning ability, control summoned creatures,

Divination- You scry with a mirror or still water, you see invisible creatures, sense enemies before they attack, etc.

Enchantment- You could charm with a gaze, tell some one to go to sleep, erase memories, etc.

Evocation- You could use magic missle at will, create walls of force, throw fireballs, etc.

Illusion- You could create illusions at will, become invisible, have a constant blur/displacement effect, etc.

Necromancy- You animate and control undead at will, be healed by negative energy, drain life from the living to heal yourself, etc.

Transmutation- You change into different forms at will, alter your size, change one object into just about anything else, etc.

You could do all this without spells.


So rather than continue waiting I went ahead and built my Sith Lord replacement

As always comments, concerns and cookies are appreciated. Also I am horrible coming up with names.


The divine version of the spell power/supernatural class would be domain focus and might get anywhere from 1-3 domains to pick abilities from. Heck maybe all the domains from there deity.


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Personally I've always wanted a shapeshifter class or druid archetype, but NOT one that changes into plants and animals (boring!). I want ones that can change into monstrous humanoids, aberrations, magical beasts, vermin, oozes, that kinda thing. This doesn't have to all be included in one class, but it would be nice to have some decent shapeshifting choices. I'd also love an elementalist class as well, and NOT the Kineticist, one that's actually playable would be nice.

Honestly though, after I saw the useless abominations that were the Metamorph Alchemist and the Kineticist, I've given up on getting anything along those themes that's mechanically decent from Paizo, unfortunately.


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Maybe more hybrid classes could be useful:
- Wizard/Rogue -> Arcane Trickster
- Fighter/Psychic -> Psychic Warrior
- Gunslinger/Alchemist -> Alchemical Gunner
- Druid/Summoner -> Spirit Caller
- Barbarian/Spiritualist -> Ancestral Rager
- Monk/Kineticist -> Martial Elementalist
- Ninja/Kineticist -> Mystic Scout
- Inquisitor/Occultist -> Relic Judge
- Medium/Psychic -> Fortune Reader
- Bard/Mesmerist -> Manipulator
- Oracle/Sorcerer -> Born Theurge
- Barbarian/Oracle -> Rage Prophet

The more they can make multiclassing as minimal, the better...


JiCi wrote:

Maybe more hybrid classes could be useful:

- Wizard/Rogue -> Arcane Trickster
- Fighter/Psychic -> Psychic Warrior
- Gunslinger/Alchemist -> Alchemical Gunner
- Druid/Summoner -> Spirit Caller
- Barbarian/Spiritualist -> Ancestral Rager
- Monk/Kineticist -> Martial Elementalist
- Ninja/Kineticist -> Mystic Scout
- Inquisitor/Occultist -> Relic Judge
- Medium/Psychic -> Fortune Reader
- Bard/Mesmerist -> Manipulator
- Oracle/Sorcerer -> Born Theurge
- Barbarian/Oracle -> Rage Prophet

The more they can make multiclassing as minimal, the better...

- Cleric/Oracle -> ? (kinda like the Arcanist, maybe)

. . . . . .

- A spontaneous caster with Druid like stuff, like Oracle for Cleric, and Sorcerer for Wizard. And the Hybrid of the two.

- a Full BaB class "tied" to the Oracle like Paladin to Cleric (and Inquisitor, and Warpriest), Ranger to Druid (and Hunter), Bloodrager to Sorcerer...


Dragon78 wrote:
It would nice for a class to get an actual breath weapon like how it is supposed to function, none of this 1-3/day but every 1d4 rounds. Though the damage should be more like the kineticist/rouge damage dice progression. This would be good for the bloodsavant, primalist, blu mage, and/or unchained sorcerer.

The X per day is there for balancing issues.

^ D12, full BaB, 3 good saves, 6+int mod skill points, Breath per day based on the Barbarian's "rounds of Rage per day", Breath damage based on Kineticist's/Rogue's damage dice progression, etc...


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Insane KillMaster wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
It would nice for a class to get an actual breath weapon like how it is supposed to function, none of this 1-3/day but every 1d4 rounds. Though the damage should be more like the kineticist/rouge damage dice progression. This would be good for the bloodsavant, primalist, blu mage, and/or unchained sorcerer.

The X per day is there for balancing issues.

^ D12, full BaB, 3 good saves, 6+int mod skill points, Breath per day based on the Barbarian's "rounds of Rage per day", Breath damage based on Kineticist's/Rogue's damage dice progression, etc...

If a Kineticist can shoot a Blast every round without any cooldown, I don't see why you cannot have a breath weapon with a cooldown to compensate.

Seriously, the Kinetic Blast makes the Alchemist's Bomb look like a total joke...


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JiCi wrote:
Insane KillMaster wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
It would nice for a class to get an actual breath weapon like how it is supposed to function, none of this 1-3/day but every 1d4 rounds. Though the damage should be more like the kineticist/rouge damage dice progression. This would be good for the bloodsavant, primalist, blu mage, and/or unchained sorcerer.

The X per day is there for balancing issues.

^ D12, full BaB, 3 good saves, 6+int mod skill points, Breath per day based on the Barbarian's "rounds of Rage per day", Breath damage based on Kineticist's/Rogue's damage dice progression, etc...

If a Kineticist can shoot a Blast every round without any cooldown, I don't see why you cannot have a breath weapon with a cooldown to compensate.

Seriously, the Kinetic Blast makes the Alchemist's Bomb look like a total joke...

The difference being that your can nova with alchemist's bombs if need be. TFWing with bombs can lead to ridiculous damage in a pinch


Well, kineticists can nova rather hard as well. So that point is moot.

Also not sure how ridiculous I'd call sneak attack with no weapon, but that's not worth getting into.


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JiCi wrote:
Insane KillMaster wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
It would nice for a class to get an actual breath weapon like how it is supposed to function, none of this 1-3/day but every 1d4 rounds. Though the damage should be more like the kineticist/rouge damage dice progression. This would be good for the bloodsavant, primalist, blu mage, and/or unchained sorcerer.

The X per day is there for balancing issues.

^ D12, full BaB, 3 good saves, 6+int mod skill points, Breath per day based on the Barbarian's "rounds of Rage per day", Breath damage based on Kineticist's/Rogue's damage dice progression, etc...

If a Kineticist can shoot a Blast every round without any cooldown, I don't see why you cannot have a breath weapon with a cooldown to compensate.

Seriously, the Kinetic Blast makes the Alchemist's Bomb look like a total joke...

I'm not sure how the Kinetic Blast makes the Alchemist's bomb a joke. The only thing the blast has over the bomb is unlimited ammo. The bombs hit harder, are more accurate, more versatile, and the Alchemist doesn't have to kill him/herself to throw a bomb.


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swoosh wrote:

Well, kineticists can nova rather hard as well. So that point is moot.

Also not sure how ridiculous I'd call sneak attack with no weapon, but that's not worth getting into.

Point being that they can't nova as hard. And bombs that target touch AC, are ranged, require no special conditions or positioning to go off, get Int to damage and deal splash damage are generally much better than sneak attacks, and that's before getting into how it's easier to apply status conditions with a bomb than with a knife.


johnnythexxxiv wrote:

Point being that they can't nova as hard.

Sure they can, they can nova fantastically hard. The biggest issue the kineticist has is that once they nova they're left with very little health and can't do much the rest of the day.

Quote:
And bombs that target touch AC, are ranged, require no special conditions or positioning to go off, get Int to damage and deal splash damage are generally much better than sneak attacks

Only the first and the last are actual advanatages over SA though (and even then situationally so), as sneak attacks can be ranged and I can't think of many situations where an Alchemist's intelligence is higher than a rogue's dex + weapon damage dice. Hell, if the rogue wants to pick up a firearm they can target touch too.

Point being, a class' nova damage being fairly comparable to the at-will damage of a class that isn't known for being particularly dominant in combat is not what I'd call 'ridiculous'.

Quote:
and that's before getting into how it's easier to apply status conditions with a bomb than with a knife.

True, but the argument was that an alchemist's damage was ridiculous.


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I did notice that a number of people don't want third-party products; the below is for whoever else might have similar class interests.

Inventor/engineer: vanguard, gadgeteer, tinker.
Shapeshifter: warden, shapeshifter.
Wildling: savage.
Vivifier and shadowcaster: antipodist specialized in light or darkness.
Defender/protector: warder.
Psychic warrior, manifesters of psionic armor/weapons: psychic warrior, soulknife and aegis.
Primalist: Masquerade Reeveler.
Telepath: besides mesmerist and psychic, psion, tactician, and vitalist, and zealot (martial telepath!).
Lucky: I guess luckbringer?
Pact magic (2 links; it appears that the authors are preparing a compilation plus extra material).
Rage caster: the wilder can be clearly rage-based, but uses psionics.
Alternate paladin.

(No, I'm not affiliated to any of the authors.)

MMCJawa wrote:
Also not all 3pp provide equal support to the new classes, or open them up to OGL.

Who's publishing closed content?


Never liked most of the NPC classes though I would love to see versions of the expert and noble are that actually worth something. Maybe even a merchant class or at least the type of expert you are has an actual effect on your skills and abilities. Besides GP Rain needs to be a class ability one day.

A gambler based class would be interesting as well. Getting random magical effects based on slots, dice, and card draws would be cool.

Scarab Sages

Dragon78 wrote:


A gambler based class would be interesting as well. Getting random magical effects based on slots, dice, and card draws would be cool.

Isn't that the Harrower, or even some of the Harrow archetypes?

Actually, a Harrow Bard would be nice, as that always seemed the 2nd most logical choice. Witch being the first, and there is a Harrow archetype for that class.


swoosh wrote:
johnnythexxxiv wrote:

Point being that they can't nova as hard.

Sure they can, they can nova fantastically hard. The biggest issue the kineticist has is that once they nova they're left with very little health and can't do much the rest of the day.

Maximum nova potential for a kineticist is spending 8 (4 twice to double ray on standard and swift) + 4 (maximize for standard&swift) + 3 (quicken) + 2 (empower for standard&swift) or 17 burn (minus reducers - you can spend a move action to reduce burn by 2 and and metakinetic master can reduce burn cost by an additional 2) to deal 140 + 10d6 + 10 + 1.5xCon damage 4 times in one round. That is a lot compared to the 10d6+Int (plus any applicable splash damage) 8 times a round that the Alchemist is getting at 20th level, but that's because Kineticist really picks up damage at 17th when you can twincast for 4 burn. At 16th, 112 + 8d6 + 8 + 1.5xCon twice a round is comparable to 8d6 + 1 + Int 8 times per round (average damage of 326 vs 312 assuming 30 in relevant stat) but doesn't account for the fact that touch AC is MUCH easier to hit than standard AC which means that the Alchemist will lose a whole lot less damage from missed attacks than the Kineticist (and even if they missed as frequently, a miss for the Kineticist halves it's damage output while it only reduces the Alchemist's by 1/8) and if the Kineticist decides to go for an elemental blast so that they can hit Touch AC as well, their base damage dips below the Alchemist's since they lose 35 damage per blast. I didn't bother with adding in splash damage to the equation since that won't actually help kill what you're focus firing easier, just the things around it (since that fluctuates it would be a bit disingenuous of me to say that there's ever going to be the perfect scenario of 8 enemies surrounding the big bad, adding an extra 704 to the Alchemist's total damage) but it is worth noting that since the Alchemist's damage is more granular, there's less wasted HP damage as the Alchemist can focus more additional attacks on other enemies (who may or may not have been softened up by splash damage already) after dropping the first one.

swoosh wrote:
johnnythexxxiv wrote:
And bombs that target touch AC, are ranged, require no special conditions or positioning to go off, get Int to damage and deal splash damage are generally much better than sneak attacks

Only the first and the last are actual advanatages over SA though (and even then situationally so), as sneak attacks can be ranged and I can't think of many situations where an Alchemist's intelligence is higher than a rogue's dex + weapon damage dice. Hell, if the rogue wants to pick up a firearm they can target touch too.

Point being, a class' nova damage being fairly comparable to the at-will damage of a class that isn't known for being particularly dominant in combat is not what I'd call 'ridiculous'.

The Rogue is known for having an insane damage ceiling, it's just that it's nigh impossible for them to actually get off a full round sneak attack. Not having to get flanking or finding a way to make the opponent flatfooted against ranged attacks is a definite plus for the Alchemist, that and the fact that the only way for the Rogue to get as many attacks as the Alchemist is getting is either through also being a thrown weapon build or through double barreled pistols (and only then if you take a feat and use cartridges), neither of which allow for Dex to damage for the Rogue without multiclassing. If you go for melee then you're not hitting Touch AC and you have one less attack on your full attack so that extra damage from weapon dice and Piranha Strike/Power Attack is going to get mitigated pretty easily.

swoosh wrote:
johnnythexxxiv wrote:
and that's before getting into how it's easier to apply status conditions with a bomb than with a knife.
True, but the argument was that an alchemist's damage was ridiculous.

And it is. 300+ on a full attack that also significantly injures nearby opponents is crazy strong. You're regularly one-shotting APL+2 and have about a 50/50 chance of one-shotting APL+3 while also clearing out mooks at the same time, which the other two classes can't do since they have single target attacks.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I wanna play a Herald of Xotli in pathfinder


Kryzbyn wrote:
I wanna play a Herald of Xotli in pathfinder

That sounds totally badass. What is it?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

It's a class from Age of Conan.
Cloth caster that uses two handers and mixes it up in melee with fire spells and demonic boosts to combat, up to and including taking a demon form for a limited time.

Info from AoC Wiki:
AoC Wiki wrote:

Some of those who meddle in the demonic arts are either too weak-minded or venture too far down the path of demonology to remain untainted for long. The Heralds are those who with an insatiable lust for power regardless of the cost have bargained with the demon god Xotli and paid the ultimate price.

They become a host to true demonic forces, allowing their very flesh and blood to be twisted and shaped to the purposes of their master.

The arcane and twisted pacts that have allowed the Herald to call upon the power of Xotli mean that they are powerful and dreaded foes in combat. Whereas other priests or students of the demonic arts can call upon the servants or blessing of their respective deities the Herald actually transforms themselves into a walking incarnation of Xotli’s wrath.

Wielding demonic hellfire coupled with a mastery of monstrous axes and imposing swords, the Herald is a force to be reckoned with. The Herald can choose to master the flame, the blade, or to master neither but be adept at both.

Heralds who choose to become Avatars of their demonic god are lethal in close combat. Using magic to enchant their blades to burn their foes with each attack. Selling off more of his damned soul to transform himself into an Avatar of Xotli, further increasing physical and spell damage, and constantly burning nearby foes. The Avatar focuses on empowering his melee capabilities and maximizing the amount of time the Herald can morph into his demonic lord.

To gain immense knowledge of the Hellfire the Herald allows his demonic lord to Possess him. Under the Possession of his demonic master the Herald can speak in demonic tongues, casting spells of power unimaginable by mortals. Inflicting lingering burns on opponents to weaken healing effects and their stat regeneration. Burning foes that approach too close with Hellfire Breath, or using the Tongue of Xotli to incinerate opponents. While Possessed by Xotli the demonic lord will allow his pawn to cheat death, allowing the Herald to return to life if slain in combat.


Flamewarrior wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Also not all 3pp provide equal support to the new classes, or open them up to OGL.
Who's publishing closed content?

I'd ammend your question to "who's published a base class for Pathfinder as closed content?" (Which I'm guessing is what you meant:D).

Most publishers releasing content for Pathfinder choose to make their campaign settings and fluff closed content (following Paizo's lead). The big exception is Purple Duck Games, as Mark decided to make everything in the Lands of Porphyra Campaign setting OGC. All the gods, all NPCs, all nations, all of the extensive world history is all open gaming content, in addition to all the rules.

On the other hand, the only company I know of that has released closed content rules is Kobold Press. In particular, Deep Magic contains a smattering of closed content mixed in with the open content. That book didn't have any classes, though, and AFAIK all of Kobold Press' base classes are OGC, as is every other base class published for Pathfinder that I know of.


137ben: yes, I meant "rules"; fluff being closed is unexceptional, and I couldn't care less (though maybe Porphyra deserves a look - one wonders whether ducks are central to the setting, or just purple). Thanks for the information on Kobold Press - I didn't think they could do that.


That's because you can't.

The Exchange Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge

And we don't. All the spells in Deep Magic are Open.


This is a wish list for classes from Paizo, it has nothing to do with third party or old edition products.

Liberty's Edge

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Fair enough, but judging from many of the posts in this thread, others are indeed interested in non Paizo material as well as Paizo.

I think mentions of non Paizo classes are kind of inevitable ...


There is a third party section on these boards that is just the right place for them to start there own wish lists for third party products.

Dark Archive

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Dragon78 wrote:
This is a wish list for classes from Paizo, it has nothing to do with third party or old edition products.

Ok, hold up, look at it this way- if you, as a consumer, really want McDonalds to make pizza but they don't, and Burger King suddenly does, they should certainly be marketing their pizza to you.

I understand that people want official Paizo content for Pathfinder, but its not as though tons of companies haven't been making OGL compatible content for like fifteen years now. Or that making new classes for Pathfinder is extremely difficult.

It would be like somebody coming on here and requesting Pathfinder updates to the Expanded Psionics Handbook. We'd point them towards Ultimate Psionics in a heartbeat.


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I'm sure I've seen this mentioned before, but I'd love to have a true martial shapeshifting class. Not something completely half-assed like the Metamorph alchemist, but a class that gets beast shape, alter self, monstrous physique, vermin shape, elemental body, plant shape, dragon form and giant form as class abilities. That would be amazing.


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And also has the option to get the ability to change into fey, oozes, constructs, and non-elemental outsiders if those spells ever see the light of day to be used as baseline for the classes shapeshifting.


Dragon78 wrote:
This is a wish list for classes from Paizo, it has nothing to do with third party or old edition products.

Your statements make it unclear to others what you want. If you say you want a class that does X, and I (or someone else) knows of a class that does X, I (or someone else) will probably point it out to you. If you then say you don't actually want a class that does X, it leaves me confused as to why you asked for it in the first place.

Also, watch your oxymorons.


This is a wish list for classes that you would want to be made from Paizo. I don't mind people saying they want old classes from other editions or if they wish Paizo would make class like such and such from a third party, video game, etc. What I don't want is things like people saying "hey this third party company has this class your looking for" or "lets talk about third party stuff because we can". I don't want this wish list thrown into the third party section like one of the other wish lists I was enjoying.

Grand Lodge

Dragon78 wrote:
Soulblade/Mindblade/Spiritblade/Mysticblade- Martial class that has the ability to create a magical weapon out of there body, mind or soul. Gains a +1 enhancement bonus at 3rd that increases every 4 levels(+5 at 19th). Also gains weapon special properties and other abilities with this weapon.

Something very close to this one actually exists in Occult Adventures as an archetype. You might want to take a look at the Mindblade Magus.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Dragon78 wrote:
What I don't want is things like people saying "hey this third party company has this class your looking for"

I don't see why that's a bad thing though. I want to play something that Paizo hasn't made, so finding out that someone else has made something similar is good for me.

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