Samurai / Monk


Advice


Hello everyone. I've DMed a lot of 3.5 in my time, but I don't have a lot of experience with Pathfinder. I just started a pretty casual game as a player, and was looking for a little friendly advice on Multiclassing. The campaign leans a lot more towards RP and story telling then it does combat, but when a fight does break out, the DM doesn't pull any punches. I've been on a Japanese mythology kick lately, so I decided to play a Samurai, and since my DM really dislikes Animal Companions and swords are cool, I decided to throw him a bone and went Sword Saint as well. As I said, we're more familiar with 3.5 as a group, so we decided to roll for stats instead of point buy, and I rolled stupid good for stats, which means among other things, I have more skill points then I really need as a Samurai, enough that I've taken ranks in "Profession Caligrophy" for simple flavor purposes, even though its almost certainly never going to come up.

Anyway, the game has been great so far, but its very much based in a city, and the PCs are basically cops. This means most of our foes thus far have been enemies we don't want to kill. In addition, due to Sword Saint's Iajutsu Strike requiring my character's sword to be sheathed, I havn't been pulling it out very often. Enemy NPCs have been doing a lot of things that would provoke attacks of opportunity from me, but without my sword drawn I havn't been able to make them, so I was considering taking Improved Unarmed Strike as my feat at third level. But then one of the other players who's a little more min-max oriented than me suggested I just take a level in Unchained Monk instead.

I don't normally like Multiclass characters, but it seems like a good idea. As far as I can tell, all I lose out on is a single hit point (Since Samurai is my favored class) and potentially the Samurai capstone ability. Last Stand is really really cool, but its not likely that this campaign is going to get to level 20 anyway. In exchange, I get Improved Unarmed Strike like I wanted, plus Stunning Fist which should help take down opponents our party doesn't want to kill, Perception as a class skill, a +2 bonus to reflex saves, Combat Reflexes, which should help even when I'm not using unarmed strikes, and improved damage while unarmed. Not to mention Flurry of Blows and the Monk's AC Bonus, neither of which our likely to come up a lot, but they aren't bad to have.

Is there some major downside to a one level dip in Monk that I'm just not seeing?


It's doable, you're not playing a caster who'd be badly hurt. It has a minor impact by delaying challenge improvements and your order abilities and the time your iaijitsu strike finally becomes a stsndard action (& so useful in actual combat), but if the monk abilities matter more to you go for it.

Silver Crusade

Monk has always been good for a one or two level dip, unchained hasn't really changed that.

Plus, it was common for samurai to retire to a monastery. Samurai/monk is a natural Multiclass.

If you prefer not to dip, get a Cestus or spiked gauntlet and never be unarmed!


As a note, remember the sohei- the monk archetype that have numerous melee options, and it can flurry in light armor (or mithral'd medium armor). IE- the monk archetype that plays nice with multiclass.

With 6 levels, you could even flurry with a naginata, or a odachi.

Also, it is thematically appropriate. Y'know... japanese warriors and all.


A few options:

Unchained Monk is nice, but since you're a SS Samurai, and have mentioned using a sword, I can only presume you either picked Katana or Wakazashi as your expertise weapon. That means that you won't be flurrying with them unless you pick yourself up a Blade of the Sword Saint. You get Wisdom to AC, but only when unarmored and, as a Samurai, you probably don't focus too much on Wisdom. You get a bonus feat, sans prereqs, but most available at Monk 1 aren't especially noteworthy, except maybe for deflect arrows or combat reflexes. You also get Stunning Fist for free, but, again, no wisdom focus means low DC for it.

Sohei Monk is nice, but you need 6 levels in Monk to get Weapon Training and none of the available categories include Wakazashi or Katana so, again, most of what applies to unMonk applies here unless you're willing to commit to more than just a dip. Sohei is also somewhat mount-focused which is no good for you. The major benefit, here, is actually the ability to act in a surprise round even if unaware. This means you can use Start a Full-Round Action to begin your Iaijutsu Strike and then complete it next round. Alternatively, if you reached a level where you can Iaijutsu as a standard, you can ready that action. Also, with all the normal Monk options, you lose a point of BAB.

Master of many Styles Monk is a better choice as you get a free style feat at level 1. This might even be a good choice for a 2 level dip as you can get another style feat at level 2. You lose FoB, but you can't flurry with your weapon unless you get a BotSS anyway.

Hungry Ghost Monk is awesome as a 1-2 level dip since it's so front-loaded. You trade Stunning Fist for Punishing Kick which can be used without relying on Wisdom to push the target away. Remember, even though it says "kick", nothing in the feat indicates it relies on any kind of Unarmed Strike so you can use Punishing Kick even with an attack with your sword. It also meshes with a lot of other archetypes since it replaces so few things.

Monk of the Empty Hand is an interesting choice, as you can treat your Katana as either a club or a quarterstaff and flurry with it if you want. So treat it as a sword for iaijutsu strike, then flurry away by beating them with the flat of the blade.

Sensei Monk is a good one as it ditches FoB, which you probably won't miss, and you get Inspire Courage at lvl 1, albeit, with uses per day based on Wis rather than Cha.

-Note, the following are valid monk archetype combos for the above-mentioned options:
Hungry Ghost + (MoMS -or- Sensei)
Sohei + (MoMS -or- Sensei)

Unarmed Fighter is an option as you get a free style feat without prereqs as well as IUS, but no Monk unarmed damage. You also don't lose a point of BAB with this one.

Brawler is also an option. Martial Flexability is nice if you need a particular feat on demand. You also get to count as 13 Int for combat feats even if you have less. If you get a hold of a BotSS, you can take a second level to get Brawler's Flurry (and a bonus combat feat to boot).

Irorian Paladin can be very nice for a 1-2 level dip. You get IUS and lvl 1 Monk unarmed damage, can add 1 or 2 points of your Cha bonus (depending on how many levels you dip) to your AC, you get to write your own Paladin code, and Personal Challenge is kind of a lesser Smite Anything. The Cha to armor bonus even works with Light armor so you can wear light armor with Brawling to further enhance your unarmed strikes if you choose. Granted, you need to worship Irori and also maintain LG alignment for this option.


Unchained Monk can get Flurry of Blows with a katana if you have Shizuru as your deity and you take a level in Cleric or Oracle, so you can channel energy.

Ninja can pick up Improved Unarmed Strike as a special thing at level 2, and also can get an extra attack as part of a full attack by spending ki.


3rd level swashbucklers og gunslingers can draw their weapons as part of rolling initiative (which happens before even a sucker-punch).


The only significant down-side to multiclassing Samurai is that challenges/day is delayed.

Using Crane Style makes for a pretty stylish Samurai, though it costs a fair number of feats. You can switch between two-handed katana full attack or charge and one-handed katana Crane Wing defense each round.

Which dip options are more useful depends a lot on your ability scores - like if you don't have solid wisdom, lots of interesting Monk things are pretty much useless.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Some other options to consider that wouldn't require multiclassing.

Low level option: Bokken - There isn't an "official" equipment entry for this, but you might work something out with your GM for it so that you're still able to make use of your class abilities that involve a katana with a bludgeoning equivalent. Example: 1D8 damage with no special qualities and 20/x2 crit range, but otherwise functions as a katana for feats and class abilities.

Low-mid level option: Stage Combatant feat - Allows you to take no penalty when dealing non-lethal damage. Requires Weapon Focus and base attack +5. The name doesn't fit, but that can be adjusted and from the sounds of it you might be able to justify taking it as a result of the experiences you've had thus far.

Mid level option: Merciful weapon enchantment - This would allow you to deal nonlethal with your katana, as well as an additional +1d6 nonlethal. It can be suppressed for no extra bonus, but lethal damage.


If you are planning a dip into monk, i would suggest 2 lvls going master of many styles. Taking snapping turtle style will get u a shield bonus to ac if u have a free hand.
2nd lvl monk gets you evasion! and another style feat.
Suggestions i would consider..
*Grabbing style*
*Wolf Style*
*Swordplay Style* This could replace snapping turtle, as it does almost same thing, plus a little more.

Just a few ideas to look at.


What kind of armor are you wearing? Most medium or heavy armor include gauntlets which count as weapons and will allow you to make an attack of opportunity.

The big downside of multiclassing is the delay of your class abilities. The question is, is an extra 1.5 points of damage worth delaying your samurai class abilities?

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