Unseating Polearms


Homebrew and House Rules


How can we handle the pole-arm's historical design intended for unseating mounted combatants? The back-end of the halberd and many glaive-type weapons was always intended for this purpose. Considering the halberd is a trip weapon in the game, would the trip bonus also apply for an unseat maneuver? I'm picturing a mounted combatant passing through a threatened square of an unmounted combatant with a relevant pole-arm. We have at least 1 class (cavalier) with a primary ability of mounted attack/charging. I would think there ought to be at least one way to counter it.
My questions are:
1) Can we get rules for a combat maneuver to unseat, and a method a little more attainable than the Unseat feat?
2) Which weapons (pole-arms in general?) could apply a bonus to this action?
3) Could there be pole-arm-style feats/archetypes/combat tricks/etc. to enhance this ability?


Another idea - maybe a teamwork feat would be required to unhorse someone by two halberdiers.


Honestly, it should probably be just rolled into the trip maneuver. It's highly circumstantial, so it really shouldn't be made into it's own maneuver.


I like your idea that it's a specialized trip. Just the same, I wouldn't think that all trip weapons could be used for this. A sickle unseating? I think not. Pole-arms don't get a lot of love, either in 3.5 or PF. It'd be interesting (to me at least) to make some pole-arm specific boosts. Otherwise no one ordinarily considers taking a focus in one, except maybe the halberd, just 'cause it's d10 & good crit range.
We've got about 10 different pole-arms in-game, inherited from EGG & Chainmail that no one pays attention to, and each has at least 1 boost to a combat maneuver. Is it much of a stretch to find an additional means to make them more useful?


maybe make this into a weapon property?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/unseat-combat---final


Unseating a mounted combatant is definetely a simple trip maneuver: you grab the guy and throw him down. Nothing special here, many game situations are just unusual ways to do the normal maneuvers.

The description of some weapons, though, hints at some check to be done when hit while mounted, even if in the rules there is no sign of such checks. But weapons in Pathfinder have really weird and unfitting properties and stats, so maybe that's not that unusual.

Historically, the weapons that were intended to dismount riders were almost all polearms: halberds, billhooks/guisarmes, lucerne hammers, the korseke, war forks and a few others. Glaives were not among those: their spike was intended to puncture plate armor or to catch other polearms.
In Pathfinder they have poor rules though, when they exists.


How about bull rush?


Bull rush implies you are pushing away an enemy, not make him fall. It's a different kind of maneuver, such as that in the Unseat combat feat cited above.

You maybe try it too, but for very different reasons, such as not only unseating the enemy, but throwing him somewhere away from his mount.
And you can do similar things with the drag and reposition maneuvers.

It all depends on what you're trying to achieve in game, but such maneuvers are more complicated to achieve against a mounted enemy than the trip maneuver.


The Unseat feat uses bull rush.


I wrote it too, but the feat does a special charge that literally throws the rider off his saddle alongside dealing normal damage to him. Basically, it adds a bull rush maneuver to a mounted charge against a mounted enemy, so it's a very circumstantial and specific case (it's kinda like a joust).

As you can see, it's more complicated than just "I trip him".


Trip or reposition would technically get the rider to not be mounted on his horse. No matter what is done, it will boil down to a combat maneuver to cause a rider to get off his mount.

For the most official way see the Unseat feat, as mentioned.

There is no further homebrew really needed.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Glaive-glaive-glaive-guisarme-glaive, anyone?

It should be a specialized trip manoeuver, which you can attempt only with a sub-class of tripping weapons, including most polearms.

One could also imagine a free trip attempt on a successful hit with such weapons, though that might be too powerful, since usually Trip requires you to voluntarily forego damage.

Unseating an opponent shouldn't require a feat. Indeed, there are many feats which ought not to be locked behind feats, but simply represent alternative tactics on the battlefield.

This said, since we already have a string a feats for tripping, they should all apply - assuming you're using a polearm.


@Wheeldrake, your making some assumptions that aren't true.

Not all polearms have the trip quality, the Nodachi for example has brace instead of trip.

And more importantly, trip weapons aren't required to perform a trip maneuver.

Quote:

Trip Weapons: If you want to make a trip combat maneuver, do you have to use a weapon with the trip special feature?

No. When making a trip combat maneuver, you don't have to use a weapon with the trip special feature--you can use any weapon. For example, you can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike, even though those weapons don't have the trip special feature.
Note that there is an advantage to using a weapon with the trip special feature (a.k.a. a "trip weapon") when making a trip combat maneuver: if your trip attack fails by 10 or more, you can drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone.

On a related note, you don't have to use a weapon with the disarm special feature (a.k.a. a "disarm weapon") when making a disarm combat maneuver--you can use any weapon.

Note: This is a revision of this FAQ entry based on a Paizo blog about combat maneuvers with weapons. The previous version of this FAQ stated that using a trip weapon was the only way you could apply weapon enhancement bonuses, Weapon Focus bonuses, and other such bonuses to the trip combat maneuver roll. The clarification in that blog means any weapon used to trip applies these bonuses when making a trip combat maneuver, so this FAQ was updated to omit the "only trip weapons let you apply these bonuses" limitation.

However I can imagine a feat, or a feat chain that allows you to use your brace weapon "reactively" (instead of spending a standard action to ready a braced attack, maybe you can ready a brace weapon against a charge as a swift action) and a second feat which (when using your weapon braced) allows you to make a combat maneuver check against the person (if they are mounted) to knock them off their mount as well as dealing the damage.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / Unseating Polearms All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules