Slashing / Fencing Grace and Light Shields

[Ventnor]

So, with Ultimate Intrigue both Slashing Grace and Fencing Grace use this language to prohibit Dexterity-to-damage with most fighting styles:

Quote:

You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.

So, you can obviously use a buckler and still have Dexterity to damage because bucklers are strapped to your arm, leaving your hand free (that's not how bucklers were actually used, but that's neither here nor there).

My question is, could you benefit from Dexterity to damage while wielding a light shield? Here is the rule that makes me think that you can:

Quote:

You strap a light steel shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light steel shield’s weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.

If you can carry other items with your shield hand, you can leave it free. Obviously, one couldn't shield bash with their light shield to get Slashing/Fencing Grace's Dexterity-to-damage, since that would invoke the two-weapon fighting clause. But if you were just wielding a Light Shield to gain its defensive bonus, would that work?

[Feral]

On a related note, does dervish dance have the same limitation?

[Gisher]

I think the FAQ makes it clear that Slashing Grace can't be used with any shields other than bucklers. I presume something similar will be applied to Fencing Grace now.

To use a shield, either offensively or defensively, you have to equip it, and for a light shield that means:

Quote:

You strap a light steel shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand.

So your hand isn't free when you are using a light shield. That means that you can't use Dervish Dance either.

[Feral]

I was more referring to spell combat.

Can you spell combat while dervish dancing still?

[Squiggit]

Gisher wrote:

I think the FAQ makes it clear that Slashing Grace can't be used with any shields other than bucklers. I presume something similar will be applied to Fencing Grace now.

To use a shield, either offensively or defensively, you have to equip it, and for a light shield that means:

Quote:

You strap a light steel shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand.

So your hand isn't free when you are using a light shield. That means that you can't use Dervish Dance either.

A light shield explicitly lets you hold things in your hand while wielding it and spellcasters can fulfill somatic components of spells with their light shield arm.

So I'm not sure it's that cut and dry. You're probably right at least regarding intent though.

Feral wrote:

On a related note, does dervish dance have the same limitation?

Dervish Dance merely says you can't be holding a weapon or shield in your offhand. Spell combat is neither of those things, so it's fine.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

If you're attacking with a Weapon and using a Light Shield, it's ceases function. There's a reason they mentioned Bucklers, and not Light Shields, as being the exception.

[Azten]

Just use old Fencing Grace and ignore the poor choice they made by making up a new one. You're boned in PFS though.