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This wayang character for PFS was originally an arcanist, but I wasn't quite happy as a full caster. I've been tinkering to make him into a martial/caster hybrid. It's not a groundbreaking build, but there's some thing I'm unsure about and I'd like some feedback and suggestions nevertheless.
Concept in short: Inspire Blade 1 / Bladebound X, focused on debuffing with Frostbite. I'd like to make extra attacks with Parry/Riposte, using arcane pool to get my crit range up to 15-20.
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 11
Traits: Wayang spellhunter (Frostbite), Bruising intellect
1: Inspired Blade 1. Weapon finesse, Weapon focus, Fencing grace. 4 Panache.
2: Bladebound 1. Arcane pool 4. Spell combat.
3: Bladebound 2. Spellstrike. Rime metamagic feat.
4: Bladebound 3. Black blade. Int +1. Arcane pool 6.
5: Bladebound 4. Spell recall. Bruiser feat.
6: Bladebound 5. Bonus feat (Combat Reflexes?), add Keen to rapier with Arcane pool.
etc.
Some of things I'm unsure about:
- I'm aware that Fencing Grace and and Spell combat don't work together. Ideally, I won't have to use spell combat all that often. Casting a a frostbite should power my weapon for a couple of rounds at higher level. Initially, I'd cast the spell and make only that single attack, so Fencing Grace counts. During the following rounds, I can make a full attack and benefit from both Fencing grace and the added effects from Frostbite. (Right?)
- I'm a little worried that I'll initially only do 1d4+3 damage. That seems really low...
- One version of this build was an Elf, because I read that they make good magusus. However, I'm not really convinced that's better, overall. Damage as an Elf would be upped to 1d6+3, but at the cost of -1 Atk and -1 AC. With the Con penalty I'd also have less health, and probably would be tempted to use the Elven fcb instead of adding that to hit points. Overall, that seems quite squishy.
- Is 6 points in Arcane pool enough to keep up Keen on the rapier and to recycle spells with spell recall? Should I drop the notion of using Spell Recall, relying instead on Pearls of Power since I don't have to buy a magic weapon? In that case, is it worth it to stack another archetype that trades in Spell Recall, such as Hexcrafter (or possibly even Kensai)?
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It's good in theory. Essentially giving up Spell Combat, it means that until 8th level, your full attack will only be one attack. Excepting Haste. Opportune Parry/Riposte helps make up for the lost attacks, so you might be ok. You'll want to do everything you can to boost to-hit so that when you parry, it works. The main advantage of Wayang on a martial class (edit: over other small races) is that they don't take a penalty to strength. But as a Dex build, that doesn't matter to you. And with your panache based on Int instead of charisma, I'm not sure why you r set charisma up to be boosted at 8th level. I think all it will get you is a +1 in charisma skills, unless I missed something.
I would consider lowering STR to 8 and CHA to 10. This would let you start with either an 18 DEX or 18 INT, with a 16 in the other stat. 18 DEX would boost your to-hit and damage. 18 INT would give you more Arcane Pool points, more Panache, and raise the DC of your Rime Spells. The lower STR just means you need to be more careful about what equipment you carry, to make sure you aren't encumbered. Alternately, you could put CHA to 8, and it would just be a -1 on CHA based skills. Presumably you'll have at least one good social skill thanks to Bruising Intellect.
Definitely buy some level 1 Pearls of Power. They're cheap, and you can use Spell Recall for higher level spells.
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Depending on your level, you should have plenty of feats available to not need a swashbuckler dip, so I recommend retraining to pure Magus. Note that there's an arcana that grants the parry & riposte ability.
You should use spell combat all the time, it really is that awesome. If 1d4+3 bothers you, try attacking twice per round. Instead of fencing grace, use Dervish Dance or an Agile weapon.
Six arcane pool is plenty, and you don't generally need spell recall since you can buy Pearls of Power. It probably helps to lower your int and increase your dex.
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Arcane Deed took a major hit with the errata to the ACG. Basically, Arcane Pool points don't count as having 1 Panache in your pool, and a Magus's effective Swashbuckler level is 0. So Precise Strike is useless as an Arcane Deed, for example. It's unclear if those restrictions extend to Flamboyant Arcana. If they do, then while you could parry, you could never riposte, as that requires you to have 1 panache in your pool. Also, you don't recover arcane pool points like a Swashbuckler recovers panache. So, basically, by taking Flamboyant Arcana you get a less effective version of the deeds that also shares the same pool of points as your major class feature. Having a separate pool of Panache that you can actually recover by critting makes a huge difference. Otherwise, with only 6 Arcane Pool points, you'll be done after 1 combat if you try to parry every attack.
If you aren't spending Arcane Pool points to use your Arcana, then 6 is plenty. If you're planning to use something like Arcane Accuracy, then you'll want more points.
You could always aim for getting an Agile weapon around 6th level and retrain Fencing Grace when you do. But yeah, the erratas to Slashing Grace and Fencing Grace have basically made the scimitar the weapon of choice for a Dex Magus... Again. Since Dervish Dance is in a book that's unlikely to get errata, it looks like that's the safest bet for a feat path to Dex to damage.
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Arcane Deed took a major hit with the errata to the ACG. Basically, Arcane Pool points don't count as having 1 Panache in your pool, and a Magus's effective Swashbuckler level is 0. So Precise Strike is useless as an Arcane Deed, for example. It's unclear if those restrictions extend to Flamboyant Arcana.
I don't see what's so unclear about that. Arcane Deed was errata'ed, Flamboyant Arcana was not. Hence, AD has these restrictions, and FA does not.
Of course, an extra level of Magus (instead of dipping swashy) advances everything: your spells, your Black Blade, you get your bonus feats and arcana earlier, even your caster level. Generally speaking the Magus class is best without any dips.
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It's unclear, because nothing in Flamboyant Arcana says having a point in your Arcane Pool counts as having a point of Panache. It may seem obvious that it should, but that was the same argument used for Arcane Deed before the errata, and it turned out to be wrong. It's perfectly reasonable for a GM to interpret it as working the same as Arcane Deed, since that's the only example available. Even if it does count, and Riposte works, not being able to recover points alone makes Flamboyant Arcana a poor choice compared to other Arcana. That's especially true with the reduced Arcane Pool size for Bladebound. A magus is going to at least want 3-4 points just to enhance their weapon every encounter in PFS, leaving 2 to parry with.
I'm not necessarily in favor of the Swashbuckler dip either. But if you're looking to pick up Opportune Parry and Riposte, it's the far superior way to go. You do give up a lot for it. The net +2 to hit from full-BAB for a level and Weapon Focus don't hurt, though. Basically, if you're focusing on the martial side of Magus more than the spellcasting side, Inspired Blade is a decent dip.
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It's unclear, because nothing in Flamboyant Arcana says having a point in your Arcane Pool counts as having a point of Panache.
Yes it does, second line of the arcana says so.
Hm, I suppose that is one of those things with multiple interpretations. That'd be one for the FAQs, then.
Even if it does count, and Riposte works, not being able to recover points alone makes Flamboyant Arcana a poor choice compared to other Arcana.
Given that numerous Arcana work only once per day (e.g. Empower), getting two or three parries per day out of Flamboyant Arcana strikes me as a fair deal. That said, it is clear that a Swashy dip allows you to do it more often.
Another alternative, if you want to make lots of attacks, is to grab Combat Reflexes as early as possible, and use Long Arm as your default buff.
Basically, if you're focusing on the martial side of Magus more than the spellcasting side, Inspired Blade is a decent dip.
I do agree it's a decent dip.
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Are you looking at the errata'd version of Flamboyant Arcana?
The magus can spend only points from his arcane pool (not panache points) to use these deeds and any other deeds he gains from the deed arcana. He can't use points from his arcane pool to use deeds from other classes or those gained by feats, nor can he regain points to his arcane pool as a swashbuckler would regain panache points.
EDIT: Pre-errata is said "The magus can spend points from his arcane pool as panache points to use these deeds..." That did change, and "as panache points" no longer appears anywhere in Flamboyant Arcana.
It's drawing a distinction between Arcane Pool points and panache.
Look, I agree that it should work. It's silly to give them an ability and have half of that ability not work. But when the ACG came out, I was also on the side that said of course the arcane pool points count as having panache for arcane deed, and of course your Magus level counts as your Swashbuckler level for those deeds. Otherwise half the deeds don't work at all. When the errata came out, it turns out either they didn't want them to work on the first place, or they decided they were making too many of the Swashbuckler's signature abilities available to other classes. So I just don't think it's safe to assume that Flamboyant Arcana does anything it says it doesn't do.
Anyway, back to the Ops situation. My advice would be that a Swashbuckler dip will make you more effective at low levels, thanks to the BAB and the bonus feats. At higher levels, it will put you behind on spell progression, which does have an impact. Eventually, you should get an Agile weapon and retrain out of Fencing Grace, because Spell Combat is the signature ability of a Magus. Ignoring it will hurt much more than any 1 level dip, since your iteratives don't come online until 2/3s of the way through your PFS career.
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Thank you all for the in-depth suggestions, and for the link to that Magus guide. I hadn't seen that one before.
I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed that the build doesn't seem to work out as well as I had hoped. Indeed, the easiest way to fix it would be to go for Scimitar and take Dervish Dance. That route really doesn't feel right, though, and also comes with some Sarenrae flavor that I could do without...
I see the point of Flamboyant Arcana. Still, even if it works under the generous interpretation, that's only a couple of Riposte attacks per day, using my already precious resource of Arcana points.
That leaves the following options:
- Inspired Blade dip. Starts at 1d4+4, goes up to 1d4+5 at level 2 with weapon enhancing. Will almost never use spell combat, so loses a lot eventually.
- Go with the (boring) Dervish Dance, regardless of flavor. Would mean decent damage starting at level 3. Not really viable before that time, except by treating him as a wizard with less spells. Maybe a wand of Magic Missile or Snowball to carry me through the first two levels?
- Go straight Magus, and wait for an agile weapon. This mean's I'll have to drop the Bladebound archetype. Also, because of feats requirements, I couldn't take Fencing Grace/Slashing Grace before level 5. This could be sped up by going with Kensai instead of Bladebound, for the free Weapon focus. This way, Slashing Grace is available at level 3, and I could pick up Flamboyant Arcana at level 3.
- I had even read up on the Eldritch Archer as an alternative, before finding out that it's banned in PFS. :(
I've written up these three version to see what I would end up with at level 3:
Inspire Blade 1 / Bladebound Magus 2 (assuming +1 weapon from Arcane Pool)
Str 8, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 10
Standard rapier attack: +7 (1d4+5)
Spellstrike (without spell combat) Rime Frostbite: +7 (1d6+5 +1d6+2), with Entangle
Possibly followed by a riposte at the same values, or otherwise the same attack next turn.
Bladebound Magus 3 (Dervish Dance) (assuming +2 weapon from Black Blade/Arcane)
Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
Finesse at level 1, Dervish Dance at level 3.
Standard scimitar attack: +8 (1d4+6)
Spellstrike/Spell combat Frostbite: +6 (1d4+6) /+6 (1d4+6+1d6+3), without Entangle.
No ripostes yet, those are added once I get an arcana at level 6.
Kensai Magus 3 (agile) (assuming +1 weapon from Arcane Pool)
Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
Finesse and Weapon focus at level 1, Slashing grace at level 3.
Standard wakizashi attack: +8 (1d4+5)
Spellstrike Frostbite: +8 (1d4+6+1d6+3), without Entangle.
With the occasional riposte. Spell combat for extra attacks becomes possible after level 6, with an agile weapon.
To conclude, some miscellaneous questions:
- Ferious Thune mentioned boosting Int to help with the Rime spells save DC. If I go with Frostbite, there is no saving throw involved, is there? It's all automatic, the cold damage and the entangle?
- Will Fencing Grace work if I forgo Spell combat, but use Spellstrike to cast a spell and make a single rapier attack with the touch spell?
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Bear in mind that with Riposte you'll sometimes attack twice in a round, and with Spell Combat you can always attack twice in a round, as long as there's an enemy nearby.
Other alternatives are,
(1) make strength your main ability instead of dex (as wayang don't have a str penalty), which saves you several feats and bypasses the whole dex-to-damage issue
(2) don't worry about damage but play a debuffer instead; use Frostbite + Rime Spell + Enforcer + Cruel weapon for a nasty stack of debuffs. You can use a Shocking Grasp nova when you do need to drop something.
(3) note that as soon as you hit level 5, you can use your enchant weapon ability to get a Flaming Shocking weapon for +2d6 damage per hit.
HTH!
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Huh. I did not realize there was no save on Frostbite/Rime spell. That bumps it until significantly. I would favor Dex over Int, then.
If you go with the scimitar build, another dip to look at is the Dawnflower Dervish Bard. No full BAB, but you get Dervish Dance as a bonus feat at 1st level, and bardic performance that only affects you for +2 hit +2 damage. May or may not be worth it, as you're still giving up spell progression and not getting Opportune Parry and Riposte out of the deal.
Going with a Strength build as Kurald suggested is an option. You'd probably only be able to get to a 16 STR at first, but that's workable.
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Someone asked me about my comments here and whether or not I had a full build. I didn't, but I threw this together and figured it would be better to post it here where it can get comments and improved.
I don't know that I would go with Bladebound on the build, only because it prevents you from ever adding Agile to your weapon. For a Magus, even with the Inspired Blade dip, getting Agile for Dex to Damage instead of Fencing Grace is very much preferable. For a little bit of an out of the box build, I'd consider Skirmir Magus. That way you aren't missing out on anything by not using Spell Combat until later levels, and you get to use a Buckler, which works with Fencing Grace/Swashbuckler class.
It's probably not the most powerful build, but it should feel like a Swashbuckler, and it should give you very good AC. I also like making use of seldom used archetypes.
A Swashbuckler-y Magus that makes use of Opportune Parry and Riposte
A Debuff build based around Frostbite/Rime Spell
Suggested Classes: Inspired Blade Swashbuckler 1 / Skirmir Magus 11
Pros:
Get Opportune Parry & Riposte from level 1.
Get a separate Panache Pool, which can be recharged on a critical hit.
Get Dex-to-Damage from Level 1
Skirmir gets a Shield bonus to AC without having to cast Shield
Skirmir can eventually Bash with a buckler and deliver an extra spell (with Upsetting Shield Style)
Cons:
Skirmir has Diminished Spellcasting AND loses Spell Recall. This can be a very big deal, but using Frostbite helps.
Skirmir does not get Spell Combat until Level 8 (Character Level 9)
Your Buckler is your Arcane Bond, so don't let it get Sundered
EDIT: You lose a level of spell progression
Neutral:
Skirmir gets Spellstrike at level 1 (Character level 2) or the same time a single-class Magus would get it.
Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 7
Traits: Wayang Spellhunter (Frostbite), Bruising Intellect
1: Inspired Blade 1) Weapon finesse, Weapon focus, 4 Panache, Fencing grace* Retrain at 8th level to Improved Shield Bash
2: Skirmir 1) Arcane pool 4. Arcane Bond (Darkwood Buckler), Sorcerous Shield, Spellstrike
3: Skirmir 2) Rime metamagic feat.
4: Skirmir 3) +1 INT, Arcane pool 5, Arcana: Arcane Accuracy
5: Skirmir 4) Shield Pool. Enforcer, Arcane pool 6
6: Skirmir 5) Bonus feat: Combat Reflexes, add Keen to rapier with Arcane pool.
7: Skirmir 6) Upsetting Shield Style, Arcana: Close Arcana, Arcane Pool 7
8: Skirmir 7) +1 DEX, Spellshield, Medium Armor, *Purchase Agile on Rapier, Cruel on Buckler
9: Skirmir 8) Upsetting Shield Strike, Shielded Spell Combat, Arcane Pool 8
10: Sirkmir 9) Arcana: Accurate Strike
11: Skirmir 10) Weapon Specialization (Rapier), Fighter Training, Arcane Pool 9
12: Skirmir 11) +1 DEX, Bonus Feat: Intensify Spell
For level 1, you just fight like a Swashbuckler, getting DEX to-hit and damage for +7 (1d4+4). You can also Opportune Parry and Riposte right from the start. Only 1 attack, because you don't have Combat Reflexes yet.
For levels 2-7, cast Frostbite in round 1. You don't get Spell Combat yet, but you can still use Spellstrike to attack in the same round you cast. As a Skirimir, you get Spellstrike at Magus level 1, so you're doing this right away.
You also have picked up Combat Reflexes, so you can parry more attacks.
Attacks at 8th level (assuming a +1 weapon, +2 DEX Belt) are:
+6 BAB+5 DEX+1 WF+1 size+1 enhancement+1 arcane pool = +15 to-hit (1d4+5 + Frostbite: 1d6+6 nonlethal + fatigue + Rime Spell for entangle + Enforcer Demoralize for shaken)
Total Debuff if everything works -2 STR, -6 DEX, -4 to attacks, saves, skill checks, ability checks, can only move at half speed, cannot run or charge.
At this point, you want to purchase Agile for your Rapier, so that you can still get Dex-to-Damage when using Spell Combat next level. You can retrain Fencing Grace to Improved Shield Bash, so now you can use your Bucker to Shield Bash with Upsetting Shield Style without losing AC penalty. That's important, because you also now get Spellshield, which lets you store a spell in the Buckler. Go ahead and upgrade your Buckler as a Weapon to +1 Cruel. Store a frigid touch in the shield.
You also pick up an iterative attack at this level. Now, when you are fighting a particularly tough opponent, throw a Shield Bash out with your iterative attack, after you have successfully Demoralized them with Enforcer. If you hit, cast the frigid touch for extra damage and to stagger the enemy. Also, Cruel will make them sickened for an additional -2 on attacks, damage, saves, skill checks, and ability checks. And, Upsetting Shield Style imposes another -2 on attacks for 1 turn. Go ahead and add Frostbite onto that as well with Spellstrike, and even without Dex-to-Damage, you're attacking at:
+6 BAB +5 DEX +1 size +1 enhancement = +13 to-hit EDIT: or +8 with an iterative (1d2+1+Frostbite:1d6+6 nonlethal + Frigid Touch: 4d6 cold) +staggered+sickened+upsetting shield style
Total debuffs counting a rapier hit: -2 STR - 6 DEX -8 attacks, -2 damage, -6 saves, skill checks, ability checks, can only take a standard or move action, moves at half speed, can't run or charge.
For level 9 (Skirmir 8), you now have Spell Combat.
You also pick up Upsetting Strike, so on rounds after you've hit someone with a Shield Bash, when you've already used your Riposte for the round or to save Panache instead of parrying, you can trigger another attack of opportunity on a missed attack (likely an iterative) if they miss you by 5 or more.
The last few levels, you're just picking things up to improve your damage. Weapon Specialization isn't exciting, but it applies on all of your rapier attacks and helps make up for not having Power Attack. Intensify Spell is useful at 12th level, and even without Magical Lineage, it's probably worthwhile to keep one Shocking Grasp around. Or, you could spend a 3rd level slot on an Intensified, Rime Spell Snowball. There are probably better things to do with a 3rd level spell slot, though. But a 2nd for an Intensified Snowball or Intensified Shocking Grasp is reasonable. You're moving into Seeker Play at this point, anyway.
You could pick up Quicken Spell instead, but with only 2 level 5 spell slots counting your bonus spell, you likely won't want to waste one on a quickened spell.
Anyway, I'm sure there are things I haven't thought about with this. If anyone sees a way to improve it, or a flaw I'm not seeing, feel free to comment.