Chaotic Neutral morality question: Murder


Advice

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While killing humans in their sleep isn't a good deed, it's not in and of itself a game-destroying problem.

If you've been consistently killing a particular set of opponents, and you catch one asleep, killing the sleeper is no different from how you've treated the rest. If your party haven't agreed what your terms of engagement are, then that lack of agreement is your problem. If the party as a whole wishes not to kill humans except in extreme circumstances, then the party should have a discussion about that.

So if nothing else, at least doing this will cause a necessary conversation to happen.

Damagecrab wrote:
In the following battle he cast burning hands into an area containing our tank and 2 enemies. He could have taken a 5ft step and avoided the tank, the GM pointed it out and he declined.

This isn't an alignment issue, it's a "pointlessly violent stupidity" issue. I have a NE character in another game who wouldn't do this, because teamwork is useful even if you don't like your team. Setting fire to your own team might be grounds for said team to suggest you find a new team... which is an interesting in-character conversation to have.

Liberty's Edge

Damagecrab wrote:


In a previous game he was playing a CN character and I was playing a LE character hired and therefore under contract with the party. He screwed up something in a fight and my character laughed at him. His reaction to shoot me in the chest with his composite longbow. I personally thought this was out of the purview of CN but I handled it in character by silently declaring the contract breached, swore a vendetta, and working to turn the party against him. Then, after a particularly dangerous fight; I attacked him in revenge for breaking the contract. I had him down to 2 HP but another character jumped in (my Wife, even) and intervened on his behalf. He killed me next round.

I dunno. It sounds like you two have "issues" with each other. You have presented one side of it. He would doubtless present another. None of us really has enough information to go by things since we were not there.

Basically, I would encourage you to talk things over OUT OF GAME and just try to say that everyone's goal is probably to have a fun time. Maybe try (in a non threatening manner) to see if you two can come to a peace of sorts.


Damagecrab wrote:

Everyone except the CN character considers his actions to be evil. He considers his character to be perfectly Chaotic Neutral.

Are his actions evil? Has he qualified for an alignment shift?

The character's actions are evil. Not enough for a shift but enough to be noted and a possible shift later.

But more importantly the player is being an azz. Like others have mentioned, needs to be talked about as a group.


The act was Chaotic. The motivation was Evil.

That's my opinion anyway, based on the available information.


Murder? Murder. Mermaid, murder.


The characters behaviour has changed and he is now killing without good reason and injuring his friends - clearly the character has gone insane. Humour him, and take him to an asylum where he can be treated. Visit occationally.


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Grey Lensman wrote:

As much as I hate 'Chaotic Jerkwad' the problem isn't so much the CN alignment as the fact that it attracts 'I have the most fun by ruining that of others!' type players to it like a moth to a flame. Except that everyone else gets burned instead.

I've also had the good fortune to see it played in an excellent fashion.

Pretty much this. In my experience, most problem players are going to be problems regardless of what alignment they put down on their character sheet.


There's only one occasion one of my characters has killed someone without giving them a fair chance, and that was when we were all trapped inside a mental institute and every single person we'd met up until that point (some 20 odd people) were homicidal maniacs that wanted to bite our eyelids off and wear our spleens as shoes so they could go to the unicorn ball.

In my character's defence, the whole party was in a delirious state of exhaustion and terror. -Probably wouldn't have survived another encounter.

Come to think of it, I was playing CN then aswell...


Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:
Gulthor wrote:

See, here's the thing: *actual* CN is pretty fun. Think your free-spirited 60's hippie flower child. That's why a lot of fey are CN; they're completely focused on freedom. Freedom of expression, freedom of thought, freedom from rules and people trying to tell them what to do. Real CN is about *freedom* over anything else. If you're CN, it's more important than the struggles of Good vs Evil. For you, the conflict is Law vs Chaos, and down with the establishment! Dump that tea into the harbor!

Our group has had some wonderful CN characters over the years, and they're true and loyal friends to their allies, because those things are important to them. Sure, they might make their friends want to pull their hair out sometimes, but that just makes the CN character appreciate them even more.

This. This right here. One of my favorite characters was a CN who most times didn't come off that way because, for him CN was all about 'I'm doing it my way' & nine times out of ten, 'his' way was something that coincided with what the good-guys were doing & usually when it wasn't it was because somebody was being an idiot & he would tell them.

This is how I see CN as being, and what I'm aiming for with my little rageball. Which means having polite theological debate with our LN cleric while tending to wounds. And trying to convince him to make his peaceful shrine look more like a warlord's keep, but that's just helpful advice..


I play a CN Urban Druid in Hells Rebels. At his core he is a narcissist out for himself and his own entertainment; not a sadist, but overtly selfish.

His only tenuous hold to being in a party is their mutual hatred of Asmodeans and long-term plan to overthrow the Thrune grasp on Kintargo.

Otherwise, he is borderline amoral and has coup-ed a helpless opponent for no other reason than to intimidate that opponents partner. When our paladin and he were arrested, he bribed his way out of trouble, saying, "I'm not with that guy," leaving the paladin to sit in jail for a week.

Ahead of time, I made up a few principles and thoughts that would guide him. Some of them are:

I consider all life valuable, it's just that MY life is MORE valuable.

Don't expect me to have your back unless you have already paid me for it, and even then, if the threat is too large, you are on your own.

I respect none that would look to me to lead them.

Never think yourself uppity enough to be in a position to issue me orders, you will be disappointed; maybe not even immediately - I may follow for a time to get you to count on me before I walk the other way and leave you to die on your own.

Death is a natural part of life. I am not adverse to speeding some to their natural end, especially if they are overly tedious.


fEEEEEEE-males


Yea, sorry, regarding the OP question...

Not sure if I might have played my PC the same way regarding killing the female, but I DEFINITELY do not take actions with my PC without having a plan to roleplay my justification to the others.

He presented the party with a fait accompli.

The second example, yes, CN does not like a chain of command, or organizations or order and whatnot, and sails their own way, but he is in the party for at least some tenuous common goal, and common sense says, "do not hurt or kill people that help your common goal."

Beginning to think the player needs an attitude adjustment.

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