[5e] Beastmaster ranger - What if?


4th Edition


First and foremost I must say that I think that the beastmaster is well balanced as is. But I agree that the companion looks like a mindless automaton. I do understand why did so and I can live with it.

But, for those who see it as a show stopper, I was trying to find a solution on how to get the companion more "lively" without tipping the action economy balance.

What if the companion could act independently but couldn't take the attack action on its turn unless the Beastmaster spend himself his action to give him the order to attack? It works pretty much the same as written in the PHB, but the companion, will be able to dodge, disengage, help, dash on its own.

Unfortunately, the 7th level ability becomes irrelevent. In such case, what new ability could replace it? Allow the beastmaster ranger to get an aditionnal companion? Increase the CR allowed?

I think an additionnal companion could be nice. Each will require its own attack command in order to attack, but spending your attack action and your extra attack could be used to commande both...

What do you think, could this be an interresting alternative that will get the animal companion feeling more like living creature without giving too much a power up to the beastmaster ranger, as letting the creature be totally independent as it is often proposed?


I think if it can perform the help action with no cost to the ranger, you're basically giving the ranger free advantage each round (which feels too generous to me).

I've wondered about letting a beastmaster ranger give commands to his companion as a bonus action rather than as an action - and compensating powerwise by having him operate with disadvantage for his first attack roll or ability check (due to his attention being "split" between his enemy and his ally or something).


Mordo wrote:
What if the companion could act independently but couldn't take the attack action on its turn unless the Beastmaster spend himself his action to give him the order to attack? It works pretty much the same as written in the PHB, but the companion, will be able to dodge, disengage, help, dash on its own.

I can meet you halfway and say that the Beast Master could command its beast companion to move and take the Dash, Disengage (and Hide because, why not?) at no action cost from the Beast Master. The Beast Master would have to spend its action to command the Attack, Dodge or Help actions.

At 7th level, the Beast Master can command the Help and Dodge actions as a Bonus Action of its own.

Being able to disengage without spending the ranger's action would improve the (relatively fragile) companion's survivability significantly


Another Beast Master fix I like is for the Ranger to spend an action to give a command, and then the beast companion uses its actions to suit that command the best it can.

"attack this guy (points finger)": first round, the beast use the Dash action to reach, then attack on the following rounds until the opponent is defeated.

"follow me": the beast companion take the Dash and Disengage actions as long as the Beast Master take the Dash and Disengage action.

"stay away": the companion uses the Dash, Dodge or Disengage action as need be to stay out of combat.

"guard this place": the beast companion use the attack action if an opponent enters the guarded area.

etc


Laurefindel wrote:
Mordo wrote:
What if the companion could act independently but couldn't take the attack action on its turn unless the Beastmaster spend himself his action to give him the order to attack? It works pretty much the same as written in the PHB, but the companion, will be able to dodge, disengage, help, dash on its own.

I can meet you halfway and say that the Beast Master could command its beast companion to move and take the Dash, Disengage (and Hide because, why not?) at no action cost from the Beast Master. The Beast Master would have to spend its action to command the Attack, Dodge or Help actions.

At 7th level, the Beast Master can command the Help and Dodge actions as a Bonus Action of its own.

Being able to disengage without spending the ranger's action would improve the (relatively fragile) companion's survivability significantly

Oops, I forgot to include the hide action...

I like your idea, it will prevent abuse from the help action, and also doesn't requires to find a new 7th level ability.


Laurefindel wrote:

Another Beast Master fix I like is for the Ranger to spend an action to give a command, and then the beast companion uses its actions to suit that command the best it can.

"attack this guy (points finger)": first round, the beast use the Dash action to reach, then attack on the following rounds until the opponent is defeated.

"follow me": the beast companion take the Dash and Disengage actions as long as the Beast Master take the Dash and Disengage action.

"stay away": the companion uses the Dash, Dodge or Disengage action as need be to stay out of combat.

"guard this place": the beast companion use the attack action if an opponent enters the guarded area.

etc

I'm not to kind about this one as it breaks the action economy, and is a major boost the the ranger power. Which, as I said in my introduction, is already balanced.


What if you gave the ranger a beast to command at level five in lieu of extra attack - then the odd mechanic wouldn't really matter. As it is, the odd mechanic really only exists for two levels - and then what you're essentially doing is trading extra attack for a beast's attack. Then change up what they get at third level for something else.

Given that, what we're really saying for a typical beastmaster is, "Just put up with this odd mechanic for two levels, and then you don't have to worry about it anymore; thinking of t like a training period for the bond between you and your animal."

Now that I'm looking at it this way, I'm really not seeing an issue at all.


bookrat wrote:

What if you gave the ranger a beast to command at level five in lieu of extra attack - then the odd mechanic wouldn't really matter. As it is, the odd mechanic really only exists for two levels - and then what you're essentially doing is trading extra attack for a beast's attack. Then change up what they get at third level for something else.

Given that, what we're really saying for a typical beastmaster is, "Just put up with this odd mechanic for two levels, and then you don't have to worry about it anymore; thinking of t like a training period for the bond between you and your animal."

Now that I'm looking at it this way, I'm really not seeing an issue at all.

I get your point, the ackward automaton feel could be explained by being the companion still under training until the Beastmaster reach level 5 and gets its extra attack, then be able to command its companion every turn as well as attacking.

I like this! Thanks


The other major complaint about the Beastmaster is the lack of hit points at higher levels. I was talking this over with a friend and he suggested to use 1/2 the Ranger's hit points. That got us thinking to what it actually is.

Current rules are the anima gets max HP or 4x the ranger's Level, which ever is higher. At level 20, that's 80 HP. A level 20 ranger with +2 con modifier gets 164 HP. Which is just about half HP. So it's fairly on target.


Mordo wrote:
Laurefindel wrote:
*stuff*
I'm not to kind about this one as it breaks the action economy, and is a major boost the the ranger power. Which, as I said in my introduction, is already balanced.

My big gripe with the Beast Master's economy of action is that it is a stand-alone mechanics. I'd be ok if that was how extra "characters" work in 5e but that is not the case. A familiar uses its own action, as do summoned creatures, hirelings and just plain war dogs (well, that last one depends on your DM). The fact that the Beast Master has the least control over its pet seems wrong somehow, even if I understand the logic behind the mechanics.


Familiars, can't attack and are pretty weak, so they don't happen to go often in melee, reducing their use compared to a BM companion. Hirelings and trained animals are entirely up to the DM as there's not much about how they act. Summoned creatures are controlled by the DM, and requires the use of a precious spell slot. Also they aren't available 24/7 and don't benefits from the same boost companion does. The closet contenders are the undead controlled by a high level necromancer. Those can effectively overshadow a BM companion.

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Maybe there could be a ranger spell that gives it better control of its animal companion?


SmiloDan wrote:
Maybe there could be a ranger spell that gives it better control of its animal companion?

people generally don't like that since it would require concentration, which competes with Hunter's Mark. But I'd be interested into such an option (wizard kind of did that with their spirit summoner ranger in one of the UA)

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It might be a good design decision to have it require concentration, since an animal companion could cause additional damage in excess to hunters mark.

Or the new hypothetical spell could not require concentration, or start out with concentration at 2nd level, and then when using a 3rd or 4th level spell slot, have it not require concentration.


I did consider replacing the beastmaster with a spell called Find Companion which would be a ritual spell with a casting time of 3 days in a shrine of the environement from which the Ranger hope to get his companion from. After 3 days a creature typical from the environnement (i.e. no lion in a forest) will make appear and the ranger will need to succeed a Wisdom (Animal Handling) check (DC fixed or based on creature CR, I didn't decided yet). If succeed, the beast become a ranger companion and it share a telepathic link with the ranger up to 100ft (maybe more). The beast keep its statistics (it's not a spirit like Find Familiar or Find Steed) and act independently on its own initiative count. If the creature dies the ranger suffers an exhaustion level unitl he takes time to mourn (mourning is a downtime activity that requires a full day) the lost companion for a number of days depending on the companion CR (at least a day).

This way any ranger can benefits from the power boost having a companion that act freely on its own. Also it doens't limit the companion to CR1/4 or lower, nor prevent the ranger from having more than one companion.
The drawback is that the companion is no more a surnatural creature that grow with the ranger and that if the companion die, the ranger suffers an exhaustion level until he spend time mourning the Fallen companion.


I don't have much problem with the Beastmaster as-is. I think they're stronger in the Exploration pillar, whereas the Hunter is stronger in the Combat pillar.

The squishiness of the companion is the only real flaw in the class, IMO. Though I understand the reluctance to give the ranger a giant damage sponge. I wouldn't be opposed to giving the companion a life link ability that would allow the ranger to choose to take half the damage inflicted on the companion.

That being said, I think either allowing the companion to take the Dodge, Disengage, Dash or Hide action on its own, as suggested above or allowing the companion to continue attacking a single target after being directed to do so wouldn't be too overpowered.

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WotC has the ranger in their thoughts. I think there was an update that this version will see revision as well, though I can't find that.

I kind of like the spirit animal that be channeled often, and summoned sometimes.


I like ruling that the "attack" command means keep attacking each round until ordered to stop, and changing targets requires a new attack command. I don't allow multiattack without the attack command until 11th level.

It's a bit abusive with some builds, but it doesn't break anything and won't match a fighter's consistent damage.

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