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I think this might better be discussed on the "Rules" forum...
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I know this wouldn't work in Society play, but in a home game there's no reason your character couldn't research an alternate version of the spell that only affected outsiders. That would actually be pretty cool; an Enlarge Outsider spell that doesn't affect humanoids. Limited use, of course, but if you have several native outsiders in your party it could be useful.
I know this wouldn't work in Society play, but in a home game there's no reason your character couldn't research an alternate version of the spell that only affected outsiders. That would actually be pretty cool; an Enlarge Outsider spell that doesn't affect humanoids. Limited use, of course, but if you have several native outsiders in your party it could be useful.
Occultists with the Transmutation Implement can take the Size Alteration Focus Power. This acts like Enlarge Person (or Reduce Person) except that it only acts for one round/level, only takes a standard action to activate, and it is "not limited by the creature’s type." So it works on both humanoids and outsiders, and it is PFS legal.
An Aasimar wizard could get enlarged by...
-Taking the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait to permanently count as humanoid (human).
okay i figured that would work likewise any creature that has
for example, Vampire human, yes its an undead, but is also an augmented human
I don't think it would work on a vampire. They have the type undead(augmented(human)).
The Scion of Humanity works because it specifically says it counts as outsider(native) and humanoid(human).
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I think, (while i may be wrong), a human vampire would be targetable by favored enemy human as equally as favored enemy undead
This is incorrect. Favored Enemy(Human) is actually Favored Enemy: Humanoid(Human). In order to get your FE bonuses against a vampire/lich/ghost/etc you'd need Favored Enemy: Undead.
Yes. And if it comes with Large arrows, they'll do Large damage.
If you intend to do this a lot you may want to invest in the endless ammunition enchantment for your bow; then your originally-Medium bow will, when Large, generate its own Large arrows, which will do Large damage, so you don't need to get Large arrows from outside.
If you intend to do this a lot you may want to invest in the endless ammunition enchantment for your bow; then your originally-Medium bow will, when Large, generate its own Large arrows, which will do Large damage, so you don't need to get Large arrows from outside.
I'm not sure I'd rule that way reading the description.
endless ammunition
Price +2 bonus; Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Weight —
Only bows and crossbows can be made into endless ammunition weapons—firearms and other projectile weapons cannot. Each time an endless ammunition weapon is nocked, a single nonmagical arrow or bolt is spontaneously created by the magic, so the weapon's wielder never needs to load the weapon with ammunition.
If the wielder attempts to load the weapon with other ammunition, the created arrow or bolt immediately vanishes and the wielder can load the weapon as normal. This ability does not reduce the amount of time required to load or fire the weapon. The created arrow or bolt vanishes if removed from the weapon; it persists only if fired. Unlike normal bow and crossbow ammunition, these arrows and bolts are always destroyed when fired.
Construction Requirements
Cost +2 bonus
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, minor creation
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An Aasimar wizard could get enlarged by...
-Taking the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait to permanently count as humanoid (human).
okay i figured that would work likewise any creature that has
for example, Vampire human, yes its an undead, but is also an augmented human
Type: The creature's type changes to undead (augmented). Do not recalculate class Hit Dice, BAB, or saves.You are not an augmented human any more. You're just undead (augmented).
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There are some abilities that allow the Enlarge Person spell to be cast on themselves (or as the spell Enlarge Person). My Oread is going for the Living Monolith PrC, which will allow him to enlarge himself with the Ka Stone. I am sure others can give you other examples.
Just the spell on it's own, though, the target needs to be Humanoid, which native outsiders typically are not.
If you intend to do this a lot you may want to invest in the endless ammunition enchantment for your bow; then your originally-Medium bow will, when Large, generate its own Large arrows, which will do Large damage, so you don't need to get Large arrows from outside.I'm not sure I'd rule that way reading the description.
endless ammunition
Price +2 bonus; Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Weight —
Only bows and crossbows can be made into endless ammunition weapons—firearms and other projectile weapons cannot. Each time an endless ammunition weapon is nocked, a single nonmagical arrow or bolt is spontaneously created by the magic, so the weapon's wielder never needs to load the weapon with ammunition.
If the wielder attempts to load the weapon with other ammunition, the created arrow or bolt immediately vanishes and the wielder can load the weapon as normal. This ability does not reduce the amount of time required to load or fire the weapon. The created arrow or bolt vanishes if removed from the weapon; it persists only if fired. Unlike normal bow and crossbow ammunition, these arrows and bolts are always destroyed when fired.
Construction Requirements
Cost +2 bonus
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, minor creation
What in the description makes you think the bow won't generate ammo of whatever size it happens to be at the time?
Quoting Claxton: I don't think it would work on a vampire. They have the type undead(augmented(human)).
I think, (while i may be wrong), a human vampire would be targetable by favored enemy human as equally as favored enemy undead
for the same reasons that a demon heritage tiefling can pass through the tower that only responds to demon blood in WotR. (Stormtower prison)
when a human becomes a skeleton its type changes to skeleton, not augmented.
because a skeleton is defined by hit dice.
vampires dont have hit dice, they are applied to creatures that already exist.
Augmented Subtype
A creature receives this subtype when something (usually a template) changes its original type. Some creatures (those with an inherited template) are born with this subtype; others acquire it when they take on an acquired template. The augmented subtype is always paired with the creature's original type.another example is Fiendish Bird, its type is orinaly animal, but it gains the subtype Extraplanar, because of this subtype it is now targetable by knowledge planes, by spells that can affect planar beings, and weapons like Bane outsider.
As noted by Atzen and MeanMutton, no that's not how it works.
Favored Enemy Human does not work on a Vampire made form a human. You need Favored Enemy Undead.
Similarly, enlarge person doesn't work on a vampire made from a human because it's creature type is undead, not humanoid(human). The vampire does happen to have the augmented subtype though, but that is only used to tell you what kind of creature it was before being transformed. For all intents and purposes the creature counts as Undead, not humanoid.
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The inference isn't that the ammo created by the Endless Ammunition wouldn't be Large, but that it would stay large when it leaves the area of the Enlarge Person effect, unlike regular ammo that would go back to Medium before hitting the target.
I would agree with that assessment.
The whole discrepancy between Enlarge and Reduce Person as far as ranged weapons go is something that has been on many threads.
Basically, Enlarge Person, cut and pasted from 3.5, had the sentence knocked off that reminded of the ammo doing the damage of the current size of the weapon. Reduce Person left it in. So Enlarge does normal damage for Ranged attacks while Reduced does the new adjusted size damage. (So it ends up being the lesser damage for each effect)
It should be errata'd to be the same for both, either using the original sized weapon or the new size that results from the spell. It is something I hope is resolved in the next version of the game. (PF ver 2.0)
I'm pretty sure devs have chimed in at some point and said that the difference between Reduce & Enlarge was intentional. That is why the spell Gravity Bow was made.
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The inference isn't that the ammo created by the Endless Ammunition wouldn't be Large, but that it would stay large when it leaves the area of the Enlarge Person effect, unlike regular ammo that would go back to Medium before hitting the target.
I would agree with that assessment.
The whole discrepancy between Enlarge and Reduce Person as far as ranged weapons go is something that has been on many threads.
Basically, Enlarge Person, cut and pasted from 3.5, had the sentence knocked off that reminded of the ammo doing the damage of the current size of the weapon. Reduce Person left it in. So Enlarge does normal damage for Ranged attacks while Reduced does the new adjusted size damage. (So it ends up being the lesser damage for each effect)
It should be errata'd to be the same for both, either using the original sized weapon or the new size that results from the spell. It is something I hope is resolved in the next version of the game. (PF ver 2.0)
Reduce person is meant to be a debuff, thus ranged purposely does less damage. And enlarge is meant to be a buff with a limitation thus ranged purposely does less damage.
So there is nothing to be resolved.You can always just carry large ammunition or take the endless ammunition magic weapon property or use gravity bow. Just like many of the purposeful limitations there are ways around them.
Reduce person is meant to be a debuff,
Reduce Person is a more effective buff for Dex. builds than Enlarge Person is for Str. builds.
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I'm pretty sure devs have chimed in at some point and said that the difference between Reduce & Enlarge was intentional. That is why the spell Gravity Bow was made.
I doubt it was originally intended to be as it is now, but it has been clarified that it works in this way now instead of how it was in 3.5.
To be fair, it does seem like a natural nerf instead of a forgotten phrase not being transferred over for Enlarge Person.
The rules for the ammunition doing damage as per the weapon instead of the size of the arrow was in a different part of the 3.5 book, in a section that included the old grapple rules, I believe. It is not included anywhere in Pathfinder, except in a mention to it in Reduce Person spell.
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You can always just carry large ammunition or take the endless ammunition magic weapon property or use gravity bow. Just like many of the purposeful limitations there are ways around them.
If you carry the larger ammunition, you will have to drop it then pick it up before using it, as it would be unusable otherwise. (Huge arrows with a Large bow)
Yes. And if it comes with Large arrows, they'll do Large damage.
If you intend to do this a lot you may want to invest in the endless ammunition enchantment for your bow; then your originally-Medium bow will, when Large, generate its own Large arrows, which will do Large damage, so you don't need to get Large arrows from outside.
Said arrows will immediately revert to medium upon launch from the bow. Keep in mind also that a Large bow AND arrows. isn't something that you can be subtle with when it comes to trucking about.
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Said arrows will immediately revert to medium upon launch from the bow. Keep in mind also that a Large bow AND arrows. isn't something that you can be subtle with when it comes to trucking about.Yes. And if it comes with Large arrows, they'll do Large damage.
If you intend to do this a lot you may want to invest in the endless ammunition enchantment for your bow; then your originally-Medium bow will, when Large, generate its own Large arrows, which will do Large damage, so you don't need to get Large arrows from outside.
How can they revert to a size they never were? The enhancement creates arrows at the time of use, basically, not for the bow as it was.
If it did that, it would only create arrows that were actually too small to use if you were Enlarged, then.
Said arrows will immediately revert to medium upon launch from the bow. Keep in mind also that a Large bow AND arrows. isn't something that you can be subtle with when it comes to trucking about.Yes. And if it comes with Large arrows, they'll do Large damage.
If you intend to do this a lot you may want to invest in the endless ammunition enchantment for your bow; then your originally-Medium bow will, when Large, generate its own Large arrows, which will do Large damage, so you don't need to get Large arrows from outside.
How can they revert to a size they never were? The enhancement creates arrows at the time of use, basically, not for the bow as it was.
If it did that, it would only create arrows that were actually too small to use if you were Enlarged, then.
I'd rule it that way because the bow is a Medium under the effect of being carried by an anlarged person. Spell text states any missle leaving the enlarged person's carriage reverts to what would be it's normal size. In this case the normal size is a medium arrow.
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I'd rule it that way because the bow is a Medium under the effect of being carried by an anlarged person. Spell text states any missle leaving the enlarged person's carriage reverts to what would be it's normal size. In this case the normal size is a medium arrow.Said arrows will immediately revert to medium upon launch from the bow. Keep in mind also that a Large bow AND arrows. isn't something that you can be subtle with when it comes to trucking about.Yes. And if it comes with Large arrows, they'll do Large damage.
If you intend to do this a lot you may want to invest in the endless ammunition enchantment for your bow; then your originally-Medium bow will, when Large, generate its own Large arrows, which will do Large damage, so you don't need to get Large arrows from outside.
How can they revert to a size they never were? The enhancement creates arrows at the time of use, basically, not for the bow as it was.
If it did that, it would only create arrows that were actually too small to use if you were Enlarged, then.
That is not what Enlarge Person says, actually:
All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more damage (see Table: Tiny and Large Weapon Damage). Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.An arrow created by endless ammunition (spell quoted earlier in this thread) is not Enlarged, it is created AS large if the bow is large.
Or, otherwise, the bow is creating Medium arrows, which couldn't be shot from it, then, as they would be too small to use.
I'd rule it that way because the bow is a Medium under the effect of being carried by an anlarged person. Spell text states any missle leaving the enlarged person's carriage reverts to what would be it's normal size. In this case the normal size is a medium arrow.Said arrows will immediately revert to medium upon launch from the bow. Keep in mind also that a Large bow AND arrows. isn't something that you can be subtle with when it comes to trucking about.Yes. And if it comes with Large arrows, they'll do Large damage.
If you intend to do this a lot you may want to invest in the endless ammunition enchantment for your bow; then your originally-Medium bow will, when Large, generate its own Large arrows, which will do Large damage, so you don't need to get Large arrows from outside.
How can they revert to a size they never were? The enhancement creates arrows at the time of use, basically, not for the bow as it was.
If it did that, it would only create arrows that were actually too small to use if you were Enlarged, then.
That is not what Enlarge Person says, actually:
All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more damage (see Table: Tiny and Large Weapon Damage). Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature's possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.An arrow created by endless ammunition (spell quoted earlier in this thread) is not Enlarged, it is created AS large if the bow is large.
Or, otherwise, the bow is creating Medium arrows, which couldn't be shot from it, then, as they would...
Not trying to argue but... No the endless ammunition is created as normal sized and then enlarged by the enlarge spell and step 3 reverted to the smaller size... The creation of permanently large ammo if the bow or crossbow is enlarged is something you inferred. It does not say this in the endless ammo description. Also you missed "Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell" so the bow would not create enlarged missiles.
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The properties of the Endless Ammunition is created each time the bow is drawn. If that bow is a different size because of the Enlarge Person, then I would think the created effect would produce the larger size of the ammunition, and it would stay as such when being fired.
I also understand the reasoning that the bow itself is not actually large normally so the effect may copy the bow's size difference when coming out of the spell's effect (becoming Medium arrows despite having been created from a bow magically enlarged).
I still maintain that Endless Ammunition would stay at the higher (and lower for Reduce Person) size for Damage, though Gravity Bow would not stack with that effect (When enlarged). (because of the FAQ regarding this)
Thoughts?
The properties of the Endless Ammunition is created each time the bow is drawn. If that bow is a different size because of the Enlarge Person, then I would think the created effect would produce the larger size of the ammunition, and it would stay as such when being fired.
I also understand the reasoning that the bow itself is not actually large normally so the effect may copy the bow's size difference when coming out of the spell's effect (becoming Medium arrows despite having been created from a bow magically enlarged).
I still maintain that Endless Ammunition would stay at the higher (and lower for Reduce Person) size for Damage, though Gravity Bow would not stack with that effect (When enlarged). (because of the FAQ regarding this)
Thoughts?
Spell text clearly states that the magical properties of items are not affected by the spell. In other words magic produced by an item is unchanged by it's size. a huge or tiny wand will still pump out the same 6d6 fireball. Since the arrows created by the bow are magical creations, the same rule applies.
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So the large arrow (For the Med creature) would do the same as regular ammo. That is, it would shrink back to the Bow's normal size when fired for Enlarge Person, but stay at the lower size for Reduce Person.
I understand that reasoning.
The arrows created, though, would still be sized for the bow, else they would not be able to fire at all. This is the question, whether or not those specific arrows should shrink as well (Enlarge Person) when fired.
Clearly, there is something amiss with the spell, as a +2 enhancement on a weapon should not be mitigated in such a way as to be short changed in this aspect. As I look at the issue, it seems logical that one could think ammo from the bow enlarged with the person would work the same no matter how it is nocked, magically appearing or from a quiver. I, and the poster that brought it up, could see the possibility that the ammo from the created effect would be like normal large ammo that was dropped and pick back up, normally sized for that bow that is magically enlarged. (When something is dropped, it returns to it's normal size when under the effect of Enlarge Person) My overall feeling is that the size of the ammo created by the enhancement depends on the size of the bow, no matter how that bow came to be a bigger size as some point.
I still think it works. It is quite an investment for the character as it is a +2 enhancement, though I would think they would have it so they don't have to carry an infinite amount of arrows, not for this work around to an omission of a rule in a spell.
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If you carry the larger ammunition, you will have to drop it then pick it up before using it, as it would be unusable otherwise. (Huge arrows with a Large bow)
You can always just carry large ammunition or take the endless ammunition magic weapon property or use gravity bow. Just like many of the purposeful limitations there are ways around them.
Yes, I figured that was obvious and thus did not state it myself. Drop your whole quiver to make it simple. Even better if you have an efficient quiver.
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I'd rule it that way because the bow is a Medium under the effect of being carried by an anlarged person. Spell text states any missle leaving the enlarged person's carriage reverts to what would be it's normal size. In this case the normal size is a medium arrow.Said arrows will immediately revert to medium upon launch from the bow. Keep in mind also that a Large bow AND arrows. isn't something that you can be subtle with when it comes to trucking about.Yes. And if it comes with Large arrows, they'll do Large damage.
If you intend to do this a lot you may want to invest in the endless ammunition enchantment for your bow; then your originally-Medium bow will, when Large, generate its own Large arrows, which will do Large damage, so you don't need to get Large arrows from outside.
How can they revert to a size they never were? The enhancement creates arrows at the time of use, basically, not for the bow as it was.
If it did that, it would only create arrows that were actually too small to use if you were Enlarged, then.
The ability to create arrows is not modified by the enlarge spell. The endless ammunition property does not care what size the bow is, it will create new arrows for it whatever size it may be. There is no size limiting text in the magic effect. Just as if the bow were also resizing, endless ammunition will make the correct size for the bow.
Now, the real question is whether enlarge person continues to enlarge new items picked up or only during the instant in which the character was enlarged. This is a contested question.
It could lead to an endless ammunition bow being useless to someone under the enlarge effect, as all there ammo would be one size too large.
But, if like most people, you believe enlarge does not continue to enlarge new items then this would work just fine.
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Specifically, the spell is an instant effect, anything you drop is no longer effected and will not be when picked up. The spell's description tells us this.
The specific question for me is if the Endless Ammunition works the same as ammunition that has been dropped and is normally the size that the bow is, or if it works off the enlarged size of the bow and returns to the normal size the bow would have been without the effect of Enlarge Person. This is the question about that particular enhancement.
I think it works as ammunition that is normally the size as it is created from each use, independent of Enlarge Person, though still not stacking with Gravity Bow because the enlarged size of the bow is the result of Enlarge Person and the character can not get two sizes larger with effects because of the FAQ stating as such.
I also understand the perception that the Bow would created like ammo that is also under an enlarged effect, having them do the normal damage instead of the higher when leaving the Enlarged Person effect. (Doing the Medium damage for an enlarged medium character)
On the other end of the spectrum, the issue is mute with Reduce Person, as the result of both scenarios is the same. (Small arrows)
Now, the real question is whether enlarge person continues to enlarge new items picked up or only during the instant in which the character was enlarged. This is a contested question.
I ask this with some trepidation, but... how could things picked up off the ground after the casting possibly get enlarged? I tried searching the board for "enlarge person" but couldn't find such a contest.
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Reading through the thread and I was going to make your point, but no need to because you made it. And I can't imagine how you are wrong short of a ruling that made you wrong just for the sake of game balance. Heck, it is a +2 enhancement so I don't even see the games balance argument. I would have rather added +2 damage/attack to my arrows than 3.5 damage per arrow.
With that said, I only disagree with the proposition that it is a contested point whether enlarge person continues to enlarge new items that PCs pick up. This is not contested at all. It doesn't.
I believe that balance issues is the reasoning behind Endless Ammunition being thought to be the same as regular ammunition.
I agree with you, I think it should work.
As a GM, I dread the player trying to do that with Gravity Bow, though, as explaining why the two don't stack would bring a game to a grinding halt.
I still wonder why Paizo kept the inconsistency between the two spells (Enlarge vs. Reduce Person) instead of admitting the omission, of both the rule with ammo doing the damage of the firing implement (Which would have been the case with guns also) and the reminder of it in the Enlarge Person spell.
Enlarge Person is a real size change, Gravity Bow is an effective size change, the two stack just fine.
Enlarge Person is a real size change, Gravity Bow is an effective size change, the two stack just fine.
Yep. Here's the FAQ, thaX.
Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?
As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies. The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one. However, you can have one of each and they do work together (for example, enlarge person increasing your actual size to Large and a bashing shield increasing your shield’s effective size by two steps, for a total of 2d6 damage).
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Reading...I'd rule it that way because the bow is a Medium under the effect of being carried by an anlarged person. Spell text states any missle leaving the enlarged person's carriage reverts to what would be it's normal size. In this case the normal size is a medium arrow.Said arrows will immediately revert to medium upon launch from the bow. Keep in mind also that a Large bow AND arrows. isn't something that you can be subtle with when it comes to trucking about.Yes. And if it comes with Large arrows, they'll do Large damage.
If you intend to do this a lot you may want to invest in the endless ammunition enchantment for your bow; then your originally-Medium bow will, when Large, generate its own Large arrows, which will do Large damage, so you don't need to get Large arrows from outside.
How can they revert to a size they never were? The enhancement creates arrows at the time of use, basically, not for the bow as it was.
If it did that, it would only create arrows that were actually too small to use if you were Enlarged, then.
The ability to create arrows is not modified by the enlarge spell. The endless ammunition property does not care what size the bow is, it will create new arrows for it whatever size it may be. There is no size limiting text in the magic effect. Just as if the bow were also resizing, endless ammunition will make the correct size for the bow.
Now, the real question is whether enlarge person continues to enlarge new items picked up or only during the instant in which the character was enlarged. This is a contested question.
It could lead to an endless ammunition bow being useless to someone under the enlarge effect, as all there ammo would be one size too large.
But, if like most people, you believe enlarge does not continue to enlarge new items then this would work just fine.
I agree that it doesn't keep enlarging. But, some people strongly believe it does.
And, the person who was saying that endless ammunition would get smaller as it leaves the bow must also believe that it continues to enlarge for the bow to have been able to fire a medium arrow at all.(As they believe that an endless ammunition bow only fires arrows of it's 'natural' size.)|
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Enlarge Person is a real size change, Gravity Bow is an effective size change, the two stack just fine.Yep. Here's the FAQ, thaX.
Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?
As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies. The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one. However, you can have one of each and they do work together (for example, enlarge person increasing your actual size to Large and a bashing shield increasing your shield’s effective size by two steps, for a total of 2d6 damage).
This works with the lead blades spell as well, for those melee types.
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Spell text clearly states that the magical properties of items are not affected by the spell. In other words magic produced by an item is unchanged by it's size. a huge or tiny wand will still pump out the same 6d6 fireball. Since the arrows created by the bow are magical creations, the same rule applies.The properties of the Endless Ammunition is created each time the bow is drawn. If that bow is a different size because of the Enlarge Person, then I would think the created effect would produce the larger size of the ammunition, and it would stay as such when being fired.
I also understand the reasoning that the bow itself is not actually large normally so the effect may copy the bow's size difference when coming out of the spell's effect (becoming Medium arrows despite having been created from a bow magically enlarged).
I still maintain that Endless Ammunition would stay at the higher (and lower for Reduce Person) size for Damage, though Gravity Bow would not stack with that effect (When enlarged). (because of the FAQ regarding this)
Thoughts?
And where in the Endless Ammunition enhancement does it state what size arrows it creates?
Under your rule, here, that bow could NOT fire its own arrows, since the bow is Large, but the arrows are Medium. Or, at a minimum, at an additional -2 penalty, then for improperly sized weapon usage.
Not trying to argue but... No the endless ammunition is created as normal sized and then enlarged by the enlarge spell and step 3 reverted to the smaller size... The creation of permanently large ammo if the bow or crossbow is enlarged is something you inferred. It does not say this in the endless ammo description. Also you missed "Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell" so the bow would not create enlarged missiles.
Umm. How does the ammunition get Enlarged?
Endless Ammunition create s the ammunition when the bow is nocked.Enlarge Person is an Instantaneous spell, so it goes off and is done. The duration is for how long the target stays enlarged, otherwise anything they pick up would also change size.
So, again, either Endless Ammunition creates arrows sized for the bow used, in which case they are Large arrows, or it always creates arrows at the size the bow was when it was enhanced with Endless Ammunition, in which case they are Medium arrows, and give the bow user an additional -2 penalty to fire them.
And, if used with Reduce Person, might mean that the arrows would cause normal damage, instead of smaller size damage, yes?
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Enlarge Person is a real size change, Gravity Bow is an effective size change, the two stack just fine.
I just looked at the two FAQ's about this, and your right, this would stack. Real and magical, just the same as the bashing shield in the example in the faq.
That is, if the Endless Ammunition worked as we think, going by the (current) size of the bow.
Kinevon, Reduce person would not care about the size of ammunition, it has the blurb about the bow size being used to determine damage that was omitted from Enlarge Person.
So Enlarge Person is the only issue at the moment. Your right, though, it would not make sense for it to fire medium arrows while the bow's current state is that of a large bow. The difference between the created arrows and the regular ammunition should be taken into account, and Endless Ammunition would likely do as you envisioned, create large ammo that stays that way outside the Enlarge Person effect.
But then again, balance.
I .... Guess.
So, for clarification: The damage of a bow is measured from the smaller of the 2 sources?
1) If you have a small bow and a medium arrow, it is small damage (Reduce person).
2) If you have a large bow and a medium arrow, it is medium damage (Enlarge person, no special arrow tricks).
3)If you have a large bow and a large arrow, it is large damage (Enlarge person, picked up large arrows after).
0) yes
1) yes
2) I'm not positive you can fire a medium arrow from a large bow, but if you can then it would do medium damage, yes. I think what you're asking is "large bow, medium arrow enlarged to large" in which case also yes (medium damage).
3) yes.
Do items stored in extra dimensional spaces get enlarged with you? So arrows stored in an efficient quiver, for example?
Totally unclear in RAW and there has been no consensus on the boards AFAICT. Ask your GM and expect table variation.
Can you store large arrows in the "Bow" pocket of a medium-sized efficient quiver?
"The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as 6 objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staves, or the like)." So yes, definitely. I would think you could also fit them in the second (javelin-sized) compartment, they're only twice the size of medium arrows.
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The main discussion had gotten a bit off track with the Endless Ammunition question.
The arrows in the Efficient Quiver should grow with the item, as should the items in a Handy Havorsack or any other item on the character's person at the time of the effect of the spell.
So Large Arrows that were originally Medium will return to their normal size when fired. (Reduce person will, of course, let them stay the reduced size, doing the lesser damage as well)
If you drop (Enlarged to Huge) arrows from the effect then pick up the (Normal) Large arrows to use with the Enlarged bow, then the arrows will stay the size they are when fired.
Our side discussion also believes that Endless Ammunition will create large arrows that will stay large when fired at the time when the bow is under any effect that has enlarged it, Enlarge Person being one possibility.
So, yes, agreed, that is what happens.
My overall feeling is that the omission of a rule in one of the two spells was not on purpose, but was later quantified as working as it does, for whatever reason, instead of how it was in 3.5 .
If your group says extradimensional spaces are within the bounds of the spell, you could see about getting a custom-made Efficient Quiver that protected its contents from Enlarge Person in particular.
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I would think it would cost extra, possibly half again what it normally costs. It would possibly have one compartment for normal ammo, another that would normally be for Javelins (and like) be for 30 of a larger ammo that will not change from Enlarge Person, and the third for the bows.
Man, if only there was a way to get one that would be PFS legal...