I am very new GM running the Crimson Throne campaign. I am writing to look for some advice, and to see how others run their campaigns and deal with players in order to work on becoming a better GM.
I have a group of four level 2 players and I am running them through a side adventure right now. Two are very experienced players and two are rather new. Party is a ranger, oracle, sorcerer, and psychic.
Where I am running into difficulty is with my ranger who is a good friend of mine in real life, and the issues come with player actions that he wants to take, and also be in charge of the results.
Last night there were several issues, and I trying to figure out how to resolve them. So you have some idea of what I'm talking about, here are some examples.
An encounter with a troll at a bridge, he approaches with a bow drawn, and decides to loose an arrow to give him a surprise round. I had them roll initiative, and the troll rolled top of the round. The troll was well aware of an arrow pointed at him. Even though I think that saying that you loose an arrow doesn't give you an automatic surprise round, I let it go, but when he was immediately charged by the troll, he wanted to tell me that he was riding behind his buddies on a road, and that couldn't happen.
Later on in the night, he wanted to pick up a woman friend at an event. I had him roll to decide the attractiveness, and he rolled a three, and then became upset when I said that there wasn't really anyone there that would be gorgeous, and that he gets to decide who he gets to be with.
Lastly, there was a trap that triggered by a door, and in order to rescue his buddy the door had to be held open. He decided to wedge an arrow in the door, and I figured that the act of wedging an arrow in a heavy closing door would break the arrow. There ensued a 10 minute argument about how he gets to decide what happens to the arrow.
I want my players to enjoy playing the game, but I find myself getting frustrated and not wanting to continue. I could use some advice to make it fun for them, and more fun for me and hopefully decrease or eliminate the arguing. Maybe one of my questions is what "power" although I hate that word does the GM have in what happens in the game?
Is the ranger players one of the experienced players or new? And if experienced, what games has he played? There are some games a bit more player-oriented when it comes to some if these narrative outcomes. He may be projecting that onto the game you're running, though it clashes with your GM style.
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First scenario: Roll Perception checks to see if the Troll (opponents) notice the party. DC will vary depending on the party's actions (like stealth). Considering they were riding (horses?) on a road there were not in stealth mode so the DC shouldn't be to high.
As for the charge, if you use minis then it should have been obvious where he was in relation to the rest of the party in regards to the legality of a charge. If not, then either have a SOP with how they form up when traveling around or ask how they are formed when the time comes will avoid that argument.
Second scenario: There are no hard and fast ways to go about this. You gave him a chance to spot some cute little hottie in the bar to "voulez-vous coucher". You said he didn't notice one. EoS. If he is upset about this then just hand wave it from then on.
Third scenario:I believe that there are obscure rules about arrows breaking after being used and the ability to salvage them. Maybe someone else knows them and can point you in the right direction. Arrows are not really thick and their potential to break in the said scenario is a very likely result. Again, if there is that much friction over such a small point either just hand wave it or stick to your guns.
End result. Seems like your good friend is push the limits because you are a good friend and also new to running a game. Standing your ground on these minor issues is not a bad thing
The gm controls the game world. End of story. Done.
Players control their characters. That is it. Done.
Explain that to your friend. You portray the world and he interacts with it. If he wants to control the world he needs to gm.
I feel you were right in doing what you did. He might feel you are trying to screw over his character though. Take him aside and explain that you are not. You are simply trying to gm and make a world that makes sense to you.
Is the ranger players one of the experienced players or new? And if experienced, what games has he played? There are some games a bit more player-oriented when it comes to some if these narrative outcomes. He may be projecting that onto the game you're running, though it clashes with your GM style.
He's one of the new players. The two experienced are the two magic users.
About the Troll situation: I always ask the players about their positioning when they're approaching something or when they travel around. In what order they travel in and the spacing between them should be enough for any situation. They'll have to be more specific otherwise. Also, if he was riding behind the rest of the party, obscuring the troll's passage to him, there's a chance that he doesn't have a direct line of sight to the troll either, meaning that he can't shoot his bow at the troll.
If the troll didn't notice them before he shot the arrow, he gets a surprise round. If the troll did notice them, however, there is a chance that the troll would act even before the arrow was shot (no suprise round, like in this case). The Ranger really should consult the entire party before doing something like this (so that everyone gets a suprise round on the troll).About the pick-up situation: You should let him decide who he tries to pick up. That's not to say that he'll succeed with any one of those he'd prefer (a charisma check to charm would be appropriate to roll for each attempt). If he's drunk, his judgement may be a bit off, though.
About the heavy door situation: He doesn't get to decide this. However, you should give the player some common-sense-information that the player doesn't have (but the PC/character would have) due to not actually being in the situation. The player may not be aware of how heavy the door is while the PC/character would know that it's too much for an arrow. You don't have to tell him that it's too heavy for an arrow to hold up, just make sure that he knows that the door is pushing back really hard. If he decides to wedge the door or not with an arrow is up to him. Deciding how much the door is pushing is not.
Thank Rub, this is great advice, and is helping me see some alternate ways of seeing situations. As for surprise of the troll, the party was talking with the troll when he loosed the arrow, so yes the troll was well aware of all of the party. I was using the classic toll troll scenario to introduce a new character that was already interacting with the troll when the party on horseback rolled up and into the conversation.
IMO your initial thoughts and rulings were correct in all those cases. HE does not get to make up the world outside himself. That is the GM's job. He only gets to specify his characters actions. YOU get to determine the RESULTS of those actions and how the world at large interacts with him, including who is IN the world at large and their details.
If he was openly threatening a troll with a bow and wanted to get a surprise shot he should have used his bluff to feint the troll. That is exactly what the skill is for, to fool an opponent into being surprised or flatfooted to an attack.
Ideally you want to try to use a grid mat and some miniatures when running encounters to show exactly where people are at. In the case of the encounter with the troll this would have shut down him saying he was not in line of charge before he could make it since the game table would clearly show exactly where he was in relation to everyone else.
Washable game mats are available at most FLGS and online and are perfect with washable markers to set up any encounter you might want to.
The attractiveness of who is at the event is totally yours to determine as well. All the npc's are your domain. And it is very possible that no matter how charming he is no one might want to go with him for a one night stand. He should be glad he had a shot at all.
Adjudicating traps and how PC's interact with them is TOTALLY in the DM's wheel house. He needs to learn what and when he has control over in the game.
Troll:
Troll gets a perception to notice the party at the very least - if you didn't have the troll charge at first sight I play it that if a party member 'reacts' with an instant attack they automatically get top of the initiative - no roll (that's *if* both sides are not surprised). Sometimes being first to act is a bad thing - just think if that troll was an illusion that if hit blew up the bridge.
Bar:
hand wave it or whatever - personally I play that my bars are full of gruff gnarly looking old men and women who just got done working in a field. Not many places where ale is consumed is going to be frequented by pretty women who are unattached. Next time let him find one and then as soon as he start to interact have him (surprise!) beamed over the head with a chair.
Door: Your world - arrows are always gone when used by the rules - using it as an improvised tool doesn't change that.
An encounter with a troll at a bridge, he approaches with a bow drawn, and decides to loose an arrow to give him a surprise round.
Unless he was taking pains to sneak up on the bridge and had been making Stealth checks, a drawn bow, or most any other weapon, pretty much throws surprise out the window. Beyond that, I agree with most of the other posters, when a party is approaching an encounter, you, as the DM, MUST know their relative positions, order of travel. This will or at least should, almost always impact what happens next. As both player and DM, held actions are often forced by positioning, to not know just causes problems. You don't have to use minis, over the years I have used Xs on a sheet of paper or spare dice. But basic positioning should be known.
Before allowing the attack it would have been appropriate to say "You do know that this is not a surprise attack, as the troll can clearly see you approaching with a weapon drawn...and looks like he sees his next meal".
Later on in the night, he wanted to pick up a woman friend at an event. I had him roll to decide the attractiveness, and he rolled a three, and then became upset when I said that there wasn't really anyone there that would be gorgeous, and that he gets to decide who he gets to be with."
Sounds like your friend needs to be reminded this is a group game. Not everything that comes to mind will always work out.
Lastly, there was a trap that triggered by a door, and in order to rescue his buddy the door had to be held open. He decided to wedge an arrow in the door, and I figured that the act of wedging an arrow in a heavy closing door would break the arrow. There ensued a 10 minute argument about how he gets to decide what happens to the arrow.
Having been on both sides of this I can appreciate that the player made an attempt at avoiding a clearly defined problem. I can also appreciate that the DM said, no, this attempt failed. What I can't understand is the 10 minute argument. I suspect that anyone who has played and/or DM'd for any real time has lots of examples of player/DM disagreements in terms of outcomes. Ultimately, it falls to both to be respectful, but especially to the player. You don't get to yell at the ref just because you dislike a call, not if you want to continue playing and certainly not if its a one player issue. If something causes a TPK and all the players disagree with a call, then the DM might well be out of line, but not always even then.
I've actually been in a situation where my interpretation of the situation and the DMs were different, leading to everyone in the party save me dying (and that was only because an animal companion had better than animal intelligence and drug my unconscious a$$ out of the room). Were any of us happy? H311 no! But the DM is the ref and we all accepted it.
As someone else mentioned, this overall situation sounds like a friend trying to take advantage of being your friend. That probably calls for a fairly firm hand until he gets over it. FWIW, I really didn't see anything on the DM side that I would not and have not done at some point.
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Is the ranger players one of the experienced players or new? And if experienced, what games has he played? There are some games a bit more player-oriented when it comes to some if these narrative outcomes. He may be projecting that onto the game you're running, though it clashes with your GM style.He's one of the new players. The two experienced are the two magic users.
My suggestion is to encourage him to relax on the mechanics and focus on what his character is trying to do from an in-character perspective, letting you, as the GM, fit the mechanics to the situation.
In my line of work, I teach people with disabilities. At first glance I'm friendly, encouraging, helpful and many things in the same line but there is a distinction: I am a worker not a friend, it is my *job* to help them. As such my job is to arbitrate what is best for their development, even if they don't enjoy it, that is the difference between being a friend and being a worker.
As a GM it is your job to interpret the rules, create the world and define the possibilities. Choose to be a GM first not a friend, this way you can create a fair and realistic world that all your players can enjoy. When you take the role seriously it should make those difficult decisions much easier. Realise you are simply playing out the world "as it would actually happen".
Where I am running into difficulty is with my ranger who is a good friend of mine in real life, and the issues come with player actions that he wants to take, and also be in charge of the results.
I am always very open to creative player solutions. But as the GM, you are 100% absolutely in charge of the results of any actions.
An encounter with a troll at a bridge, he approaches with a bow drawn, and decides to loose an arrow to give him a surprise round. I had them roll initiative, and the troll rolled top of the round. The troll was well aware of an arrow pointed at him. Even though I think that saying that you loose an arrow doesn't give you an automatic surprise round, I let it go, but when he was immediately charged by the troll, he wanted to tell me that he was riding behind his buddies on a road, and that couldn't happen.
You were in the right. The GM determines surprise so there is always some interpretive leeway when it comes to who gets to act in the surprise round, but if the troll was looking at him and well aware of the impending attack then there is no surprise round.
If he wants a tactical advantage, he should state the tactical advantage before combat occurs. Encourage them to have a "marching order" so you always know how they are positioned relative to each other.
Later on in the night, he wanted to pick up a woman friend at an event. I had him roll to decide the attractiveness, and he rolled a three, and then became upset when I said that there wasn't really anyone there that would be gorgeous, and that he gets to decide who he gets to be with.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!...no, he has no say in this matter. It's up to your discretion entirely.
Lastly, there was a trap that triggered by a door, and in order to rescue his buddy the door had to be held open. He decided to wedge an arrow in the door, and I figured that the act of wedging an arrow in a heavy closing door would break the arrow. There ensued a 10 minute argument about how he gets to decide what happens to the arrow.
Arrows are pretty flimsy. I shoot arrows in real life, and those are carbon-forged and significantly tougher than wooden arrows. Unless he had an enchanted arrow, it would snap. You were right. Also it's up to your discretion how it works anyways.
I want my players to enjoy playing the game, but I find myself getting frustrated and not wanting to continue. I could use some advice to make it fun for them, and more fun for me and hopefully decrease or eliminate the arguing. Maybe one of my questions is what "power" although I hate that word does the GM have in what happens in the game?
As the GM, you have absolute power. You are a benevolent dictator who's job it is to make sure everybody (including yourself) has fun in the game. You are judge, jury, and executioner of every single event that happens in game. Don't let anybody else tell you otherwise.
I would heavily advise to sit down with all of your players on a separate day from when you typically game and have a long talk about what your expectations are for the game. IMHO, your player is asking for far too much power. I let players like that say something that confrontational about twice before I give them a lecture. As a general rule of thumb, if you disagree with how a GM is ruling something, this should be your response: Give a solid, logical argument. Once. Let the GM make his decision, and then roll with it, good or bad.