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Before we go any further, I do understand the official stance on this is that the Glorious Reclamation is far removed from the events of the campaign, doesn't have a foothold in Kintargo, and that the local Iomedan community doesn't want anything to do with them.
That being said, as a GM I would prefer for them to be involved in Hell's Rebels. They share a common cause with the Silver Ravens, and I feel as though the two APs do not have enough links and common elements between them. But I digress.
My basic foundation for this is that I will offer the Glorious Reclamation as a possible player faction for those that worship Iomedae and/or create a brand new NPC that acts as a "face" of the Reclamation in Kintargo.
Essentially, Lord Marshal Alexeara Cansellarion would identify Kintargo as a weak spot in House Thrune's armor and dispatch an agent there to undermine Chelish rule; or perhaps the agent is a Kintargo native. In any case, this is another person the PCs can work with in order to build resistance against Barzillai. The Hellfire Compact shows us that the Glorious Reclamation is more then willing to work with neutral and chaotic aligned good comrades to achieve their goals. Essentially, some tasks the PCs would have could be helping to convince the local church of Iomedae to throw in with the Reclamation and spread the word of the rebellion. As the result of their efforts, when the time comes to confront Barzillai directly in A Song of Silver, the servants of House Thrune are faced with a sight all too common throughout the Chelish heartlands: a host of Iomedae's champions, carrying the banner of the Glorious Reclamation, and smiting the servants of Asmodeus before their eyes. The holy knights and priests take part in the battle and help the PCs liberate the city.
This is merely the root of an idea, so let me know about your suggestions.
The Silver Ravens are center stage in this this AP and should not be upstaged. But perhaps the Glorious Reclamation can be their sidekick!
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How did Glorious Reclamation get there?
They didn't go through the pass which is controlled by Cheliax.
They also aren't situated to go along the coast.
So why travel over the mountains to a small cut-off area that cannot provide much in the way of benefit in an effort to take over all of Cheliax? There are areas elsewhere in the nation which provide a far better means of weakening Hell's grip on the nation, which is what Hell's Vengeance is about.
Furthermore, in Book 6 you have negotiations with Cheliax. If Kintargo is associated with the Glorious Reclamation, Cheliax will not negotiate because this is the very group that is trying to overthrow the entire government.
You can add GR to HR if you want. But I don't see it as benefiting the story much, and in fact weakens the end-stage of the game.
Only way I see is thru covert operatives, which really isn't a strong suit for Paladins.
Also the whole endgame thing Tangent brought up.
I get the enthusiasm, certainly not the worst idea I've seen, and I'd love to see what you can come up with.
But I'm also a little dubious.
Still, best of luck!
I don't have the APs, so I'm going out on a limb, but:
Having a secure base for covert operations (NOT a frontal assault) that is hard for Thrune to take back and that can be used as a thorn in their side isn't a bad thing, BUT -- it is certainly plausible that the Glorious Reclamation CAN'T work well with Chaotic Good people (the Glorious Reclamation is composed of or at least by Paladins, after all).
And again, I wonder what goes wrong if the PCs fail in Hell's Vengeance (I guess we won't know until the whole thing is out)? Maybe as a cruel twist, the Glorious Reclamation unwittingly ends up enabling the rise of the Demonic State of Isger and Cheliax.
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sure go for it
but the advice to not do it that is within the Hell's Rebels adventure path is there for good reason
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So why travel over the mountains to a small cut-off area that cannot provide much in the way of benefit in an effort to take over all of Cheliax?
Because your campaign has been utterly smashed and you don't have much choice?
Furthermore, in Book 6 you have negotiations with Cheliax. If Kintargo is associated with the Glorious Reclamation, Cheliax will not negotiate because this is the very group that is trying to overthrow the entire government.
Books 5 and 6 of Hell's Rebels raise the specter of Cheliax using Nidal as a proxy to intervene in Ravounel, the infernal contract notwithstanding. Seems to me what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
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And again, I wonder what goes wrong if the PCs fail in Hell's Vengeance (I guess we won't know until the whole thing is out)? Maybe as a cruel twist, the Glorious Reclamation unwittingly ends up enabling the rise of the Demonic State of Isger and Cheliax.
There is no chance of the regime falling in Hell's Vengeance. The only question is how much the PCs will contribute to its success.
Aren't we a little too sure of themselves.
Creative Director
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Hell's Rebels has VERY strong themes of "chaotic good versus lawful evil," with the focus, of course, being on the chaotic good PCs. Most of the plot points fit perfectly in with chaotic good alignments and in fact we've got several lawful good NPCs in the AP who are tormented by the situation (Octavio Sabinus being the main one).
You COULD do this AP with lawful good characters (such as what would be involved in making the Glorious Reclamation a big part of the game), but Kintargo itself isn't really well suited to meshing well with these themes and alignments overall.
Honestly, a better bet might be to use the Glorious Reclamation in a Wrath of the Righteous game.
Hell's Rebels has VERY strong themes of "chaotic good versus lawful evil," with the focus, of course, being on the chaotic good PCs. Most of the plot points fit perfectly in with chaotic good alignments and in fact we've got several lawful good NPCs in the AP who are tormented by the situation (Octavio Sabinus being the main one).
You COULD do this AP with lawful good characters (such as what would be involved in making the Glorious Reclamation a big part of the game), but Kintargo itself isn't really well suited to meshing well with these themes and alignments overall.
Honestly, a better bet might be to use the Glorious Reclamation in a Wrath of the Righteous game.
I wasn't advocating having the Glorious Reclamation replace the Silver Ravens or become the main power of the revolutionaries in Kintargo; just having them be a sub-faction of the rebellion or another ally of the PCs.
I understand how this adventure prefers Chaotic Good characters, but I assume the Fed-Up Citizen trait is meant to facilitate the existence of lawful PCs in the game. Moreover, if the Glorious Reclamation was *truly* lawful, they wouldn't be rebelling against Cheliax at all....would they?
How did Glorious Reclamation get there?
They didn't go through the pass which is controlled by Cheliax.
They also aren't situated to go along the coast.
So why travel over the mountains to a small cut-off area that cannot provide much in the way of benefit in an effort to take over all of Cheliax? There are areas elsewhere in the nation which provide a far better means of weakening Hell's grip on the nation, which is what Hell's Vengeance is about.
Furthermore, in Book 6 you have negotiations with Cheliax. If Kintargo is associated with the Glorious Reclamation, Cheliax will not negotiate because this is the very group that is trying to overthrow the entire government.
You can add GR to HR if you want. But I don't see it as benefiting the story much, and in fact weakens the end-stage of the game.
My idea was that a single NPC was sent to Kintargo (or was already in Kintargo) to set up a local branch of the GR. I assume it's possible for a single person to sneak into the city.
It actually makes sense to have the GR not be able to establish a foothold in Kintargo in the beginning of the campaign. Mr. Glorious Reclamation could try in vain to find recruits or people loyal to the cause; but then discover that the local church of Iomedae has no interest in joining the GR; and that most of the citizens aren't lawful enough to follow Iomedae anyway. They would then turn towards the PCs/Silver Ravens to see how they can help.
In regards to your comment about negotiations, that is an issue. I could see Cheliax demanding that the GR supporters are handed over as a pre-condition to negotiations. I could imagine the PCs just teleporting them out of the city to somewhere far and remote, and then proceeding with the delegation as normal.
Another idea is that after overthrowing Barzillai in book 4, the Kintargo's GR simply throws up a "Mission Accomplished!" banner and leaves. They could conclude that their mandate of overthrowing Barzillai is completed and that they should move on to other battles in Cheliax rather then sticking around and interfering with the new government. Since the GR's invasion of Westcrown happens a little while after that, they could have just received an order from Alexaera saying that they are needed for the attack on Westcrown and are to muster at Citadel Dinyar immediately.
I don't have the APs, so I'm going out on a limb, but:
Having a secure base for covert operations (NOT a frontal assault) that is hard for Thrune to take back and that can be used as a thorn in their side isn't a bad thing, BUT -- it is certainly plausible that the Glorious Reclamation CAN'T work well with Chaotic Good people (the Glorious Reclamation is composed of or at least by Paladins, after all).
And again, I wonder what goes wrong if the PCs fail in Hell's Vengeance (I guess we won't know until the whole thing is out)? Maybe as a cruel twist, the Glorious Reclamation unwittingly ends up enabling the rise of the Demonic State of Isger and Cheliax.
A large percentage of Lencia's minions in The Hellfire Compact are CG.
Let us say that the lawful government of a nation is overthrown by a coup.
A new government quickly takes control and is very much Lawful Evil.
Is a Lawful Good person required to just accept the overthrow of the old government without recourse?
No.
In fact, rebellion against the LE government and striving to restore the original government would be considered the proper course of action.
Because the LE government seized control by unlawful means. That the government itself is LE does not negate the fact that an unlawful action resulted in the government taking power.
Glorious Reclamation asserts the current government of Cheliax is not the lawful and legitimate government of Cheliax, and thus they can legitimately rebel.
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Keep in mind that Hell's rebels takes part on the opposite side of the contry that the glorious reclemation is spreading from so it isent to hard to believe that due to the size of the country, whatever measures House Thrune have put in place to prevnt the spread and the same geological features that hinder Thrune from sending reinforcements once the rebelion kicks off proper mean the reclemation has simply not been able to reach that far.
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Arguing that the Glorious Reclamation would be unwilling to ally with a CG group or wouldn't see the value of covert operations smacks of 'lawful stupid' syndrome that we try so hard to stamp out of this game. At best, the Silver Ravens prove themselves a staunch ally that provides a vital contribution to the campaign against Cheliax. At the very least, the GR would be keen on keeping an eye of a chaotic faction with intent on curbing their chaotic tendencies in their mutual interests.
Despite the vast amount of travel magic, distance is still a factor, so they'd be hard press to get an army involved in Kintargo. However, I can easily see a lone agent or a small group make their way there. They would act as a link between the Silver Ravens and the higher leadership of GR, and offer their services to the PCs when allied.
Since the defeat of the GR is pretty much assured, leaving a seed of their organization in a free Kintargo could allow them to rally and reform themselves for future campaigns after Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance.
Negotiating with Cheliax while having a GR presence in town would provide a juicy little dilemma for the PCs that I would love to see play out. Could be easy to solve, or it could not. Either way, it could lead to some very interesting repercussions on the PCs.
If you have no interest in playing Hell's Vengeance "canonically", I would say you should feel free to allow your Silver Raven PCs to figure out ways to send aid to the GR, and as GM, figure out how that would change their campaign against Cheliax. Then figure out what Cheliax would do should they learn of the connection between the two factions.
And again, I wonder what goes wrong if the PCs fail in Hell's Vengeance (I guess we won't know until the whole thing is out)? Maybe as a cruel twist, the Glorious Reclamation unwittingly ends up enabling the rise of the Demonic State of Isger and Cheliax.There is no chance of the regime falling in Hell's Vengeance. The only question is how much the PCs will contribute to its success.
I think that is because Arogailgailgailgail. will ragequit and blow everything up rather than lose.
Do we have any information on the Glorious Reclamation aside what's written in Hell's Rebels/Vengeance?
There was no Glorious Reclamation until Hell's Rebels/Vengeance.
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The main problem with having GR people in the storyline of Hell's Rebels...
... is that HR isn't really about overthrowing Thrune and liberating Cheliax, it's about freeing a small area and kicking the butt of a local despot who quickly goes off the Thrune rails far enough for the capital to be all the willing to jettison him and Kintargo in order to focus on other problems.
So, if you play the campaign as written with having Glorious Reclamation PCs, at some point they'll realise that the idea is to negotiate with Cheliax a compromise which ends up with Thrune having one less problem to worry about. And thus having more resources to focus on kicking the living crap out of GR.
Which sets up a fascinating intra-party conflict ... that has a double digit chance of killing the campaign, especially if the GR player(s) represent the all-too-common school of no compromise no step back no surrender Lawful Goodness.
The main problem with having GR people in the storyline of Hell's Rebels...
** spoiler omitted **
I imagine the GR and SR (Silver Ravens, of course) would be willing to share the same objective of overthrowing Barzillai because he's a representative and leader of the regime the GR is trying to destroy. I think the GR would be interested in a moral and psychological victory over Cheliax in Kintargo to boast of and show that the empire can be beaten.
To be fair, the "negotiation" period happens all the way in the first part of the final volume, so volumes 1-4 the GR PCs/NPCs can just busy themselves fighting Barzillai, and volume 5 they need to stabilize the city and secure the rest of the province's outlying rural areas. That's something an LG character could even be more driven to do then the presumably CG Silver Ravens.
When the negotiations roll around, the GR might need to realize that they gotta take a chill pill and not cut off the nose to spite the face. I'm sure there's a way to do it without wrecking the campaign.
The main problem with having GR people in the storyline of Hell's Rebels...
** spoiler omitted **
well... if you wanted to have a bit of fun, that kukri wielding adherent of Father Skinsaw in Breaking the Bones of Hell might just be a kukri wielding adherent of Iomedae.
For the LULZ.
Based upon Hell's Vengeance, I have my own ideas about who it could be...
Let us say that the lawful government of a nation is overthrown by a coup.
A new government quickly takes control and is very much Lawful Evil.
Is a Lawful Good person required to just accept the overthrow of the old government without recourse?
No.
In fact, rebellion against the LE government and striving to restore the original government would be considered the proper course of action.
Because the LE government seized control by unlawful means. That the government itself is LE does not negate the fact that an unlawful action resulted in the government taking power.
Glorious Reclamation asserts the current government of Cheliax is not the lawful and legitimate government of Cheliax, and thus they can legitimately rebel.
That is not how House Thrune took over Cheliax -- although if they keep distorting the history books enough to make that story plausible, they deserve what they get as a result of people believing that story.
The previous government of Cheliax basically collapsed on its own with the death of Aroden, leaving Cheliax in a state of anarchy and civil war for about 30 years before House Thrune took over. After several more decades of rule by House Thrune, there is nothing left of any previous government to restore to power.
Meanwhile, every ruling noble in Cheliax of any alignment can produce the paperwork showing that House Thrune in fact took over rule of the country by lawful means that their predecessors agreed to. To convince any ruling Chelish nobles to join a revolution against House Thrune, you would have to convince them that House Thrune has violated the contracts that they drew up with the other noble houses. To convince anyone else to join such a revolution, you have to convince them that a return to civil war and anarchy is preferable to the admittedly oppressive status quo.
{. . .}
And yeah, replacing the kukri-wielding assassin with a VERY misguided member of the GR, desperate to save his own flagging rebellion could be a real nice twist. I realize that this runs the risk of painting the entire GR as being the very worst Lawful Stupid has to offer, and may give the players a wrong impression of them, but honestly? Nothing I've read about the GR has given me reason to think otherwise of the guys.
Now, obviously, changes such as these are wholly inappropriate if your group isn't interested in some moral quandaries and the ethics of rebelling. There's nothing wrong with simply wanting to play the plucky young rebels out to kick the despot of his throne.
{. . .}
Speaking of Lawful Stupid -- maybe the Glorious Reclamation sent a Lawful Stupid agent to Kintargo to get rid of them, thinking they have no chance of success over there anyway?
Of course, the artful way out of the moral dilemma would be to negotiate a new contract that has a loophole that lets Kintargo re-rebel if Thrune takes certain actions that it will need later to combat the Glorious Reclamation, but that aren't at all obvious right now. A Glorious Reclamation agent (even if misguided) might be able to provide useful insight into what such things would be (although the Stupid part might cause some issues with this), and could get a message back to the main Glorious Reclamation about what needed to be done, and when, thus enabling the Glorious Reclamation to force Thrune's hand.
It's your game. You can do what you want. You can modify it as you want.
You could make it so that Thrune is an agent of the Heavens, and that you're chaotic evil terrorists disrupting a happy society and casting it down. It's a bit of work, but you could make Hell's Rebels into an Evil Campaign if you so desired.
Likewise, you can make it Lawful Good vs. Evil if you want.
That said, the game is geared toward a liberty-minded mindset fighting tyranny, without the presence of an invading force of paladins playing the field. There are good reasons not to include the Glorious Reclamation - one of which being if the GR is supporting Kintargo, then you will not see Cheliax and House Thrune offer to negotiate with the very same invading force that is taking over cities in southern Chelias.
This means you'll have to do even more rewriting so to explain why Cheliax doesn't just invade and destroy Kintargo after they finish off the GR.
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That is not how House Thrune took over Cheliax -- although if they keep distorting the history books enough to make that story plausible, they deserve what they get as a result of people believing that story.The previous government of Cheliax basically collapsed on its own with the death of Aroden, leaving Cheliax in a state of anarchy and civil war for about 30 years before House Thrune took over. After several more decades of rule by House Thrune, there is nothing left of any previous government to restore to power.
Meanwhile, every ruling noble in Cheliax of any alignment can produce the paperwork showing that House Thrune in fact took over rule of the country by lawful means that their predecessors agreed to. To convince any ruling Chelish nobles to join a revolution against House Thrune, you would have to convince them that House Thrune has violated the contracts that they drew up with the other noble houses. To convince anyone else to join such a revolution, you have to convince them that a return to civil war and anarchy is preferable to the admittedly oppressive status quo.
Sorry if I can't nod in agreement, Thrune's boot is on my head. Size 14+ is rough on a three-footers head.
{. . .} There are good reasons not to include the Glorious Reclamation - one of which being if the GR is supporting Kintargo, then you will not see Cheliax and House Thrune offer to negotiate with the very same invading force that is taking over cities in southern Chelias.
This means you'll have to do even more rewriting so to explain why Cheliax doesn't just invade and destroy Kintargo after they finish off the GR.
Shhhh . . . You're not supposed to tell Thrune that you're working with the Glorious Reclamation.
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I intend to have the Glorious Reclamation pop up in our Hell's Rebels, but not as shining heroes and not particularly as being on the PC's side, either. I will use them as a stark contrast to the "Kintargo Way" (i.e. Chaotic Good) by being arrogant know-it-alls.
I will create a couple of stuffy paladin NPCs, extremely full of themselves and their Cause, who will contact the Silver Ravens from hiding and eventually try to boss my PCs around. "We are the Glorious Reclamation, thank you for your valiant efforts so far, but now let's leave this to the professionals"-type of guys. They will commend the PCs for a "jolly good job chaps, especially by amateurs" and start to create lots of problems for the PCs since they won't know how Kintargo works, and won't particularly care either. They won't be stupid per se, and quite powerful to boot, just self-righteously Lawful Good in the most annoying way possible.
The AP will be presented from a strong Chaotic Good POV in our campaign, and Lawful Good often means Boring Bighead in their minds. And in this capacity the GR will also serve as a bit of comic relief, and a way to strengthen what it means to be Kintargan.
It will be interesting to see what my PCs will do. Hehe.
I could actually see the Glorious Reclamation screwing up the final resolution of this adventure path by trying to insist that Kintargo directly challenge Cheliax instead of invoking an obscure clause in the diabolical Kintargo Contract to get Cheliax to leave them alone.
Well..they are appeasing Thrune to go away. Even though Asmodeus worship is all over the place, Thrune is still a tyrannical slave-taking,halfling kicking bunch of creeps so giving them the bum's rush out of the country isn't wrong.
Or, you could take this approach.
All this "GR will not support people's uprising" makes no sense. Hell's Fire Compact is basically about one GR agent trying to starts a revolution in a small city.
GR is trying to conquest Cheliax by sword and words. Many GR agents were sent to spots on Cheliax that may sympathise with them, trying to gain territory.
For exemple:
On the first HV book, the "Angel Knight" was sent to Longacre, a city where Cheliash war veterans are forgotten and many citizens have some resentment against the Thrune.
On the second, another agent was sent to a holy place of Iomedae, a city with more worshipers of Iomedae im Cheliax.
So, why not trying something in Kintargo? The most rebelious of Cheliax Cities.
In my Hell's Rebels, one of the PC is a dwarf paladin of Torag. He sided with the GR when they defeated Order of the Godclaw. He was sent to Kintargo to find the "Silver Ravens" and try to make an alliance between GR and SR. He was chose to do this mission because, since is not a paladin of Iomedae himself, it will be easier travel to Kintargo.
My argument is that if GR is a part of the Kintargo uprising, then Cheliax WILL NOT NEGOTIATE with Kintargo. To do so is to negotiate with the Glorious Reclamation and give them legitimacy.
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The whole 'Ask Thrune not to beat us up.' part of the AP has never sat well with me. I mean, pretty much everything during the negotiation is 'Haggle down from letting Thrune walk all over us.' Appeasing the fascists is not something that should be done.
^Like I said before, the Silver Ravens don't have to tell Thrune that they're working with the Glorious Reclamation. Part of their task could be to negotiate with the Glorious Reclamation to keep the latter from spilling the beans by forcing Kintargo to maintain an obviously active anti-Thrune role. Then have Kintargo work behind the scenes in ways that hurt Thrune but don't technically violate the treaty with Thrune (of course, that treaty has to be carefully crafted to have the appropriate loopholes -- and beware that Thrune is probably working hard to do the same thing in their favor).
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And allowing Thrune to invade Kintargo and destroy it is better?
If Kintargo is strong enough to stand up to Cheliax in a stand-up fight, then Cheliax would have stomped out the rebellion as soon as it had started.
The process by which Kintargo can avoid Cheliax invading, and the historical basis for it, is quite amusing and is a nod as to how Lawful Evil people can sometimes outsmart themselves. And it also realistic in that four people, no matter how powerful, cannot stand up to a nation full of powerful people with the backing of Hell itself, without finding a way to convince that powerful nation not to invade.
That said, all APs have sections which don't always work to their fullest. For instance,
Added a spoiler though to be honest, I don't think it really needs it.
^Actually, now that you mention it (and that should have had a spoiler in it),
No. But she does anyway.
@ MannyGoblin - Well, in this circumstance you aren't Britain - you're Belgium.
Kintargo won't survive a war with Cheliax and Nidal. Your high level PCs might be fine, but the common folk would be utterly screwed.
The Contract protects the region from direct invasion, but you need to negotiate to prevent Cheliax from screwing you in other ways.
@Tangent101: Hmmm . . . Yet another idea for the concept I have been turning over in the back of my mind for Golarion Future (setting date around AR 4811 at the moment, so that characters from that setting traveling to Earth with only brief travel time would end up on Earth in approximately the present day -- and to be on-topic for this thread, yes, I have ideas for Cheliax and its holdings within this concept . . .).
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^Actually, now that you mention it (and that should have had a spoiler in it),
** spoiler omitted **
You don't trust dear Grandmother?
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^Like I said before, the Silver Ravens don't have to tell Thrune that they're working with the Glorious Reclamation. Part of their task could be to negotiate with the Glorious Reclamation to keep the latter from spilling the beans by forcing Kintargo to maintain an obviously active anti-Thrune role. Then have Kintargo work behind the scenes in ways that hurt Thrune but don't technically violate the treaty with Thrune (of course, that treaty has to be carefully crafted to have the appropriate loopholes -- and beware that Thrune is probably working hard to do the same thing in their favor).
Taking it as a given that Ravounel cannot fight Cheliax conventionally, it has essentially three grand-strategic options going forward.
It could submit to economic and geostrategic reality and latch on to Cheliax in fact if not in name. This is Isger's strategy, and replicates its advantages and limitations. Kintargo is one of two Chelish ports well-situated to engage in the Arcadian trade; politically it better-situated than Corentyn. The latter port was associated with the defunct colony of Canorus, while Kintargo plays host to the Barony of Anchor's End. Prior to Hell's Rebels, that institution and Sunset Imports were being cut out of the Arcadian trade; formal independence with functional submission would allow them to flourish again. Re-exporting Arcadian goods along with Ravounel's classic granite, salt, silver, and fishes would probably make for a prosperous Archduchy. On the other hand, this approach does place Ravounel's destiny in Cheliax's hands rather than those of her people, and down the road would lead to the same kind of neglect-cum-exploitation seen in Isger. Not to mention that Corentyn isn't going to take Kintargo's competition lying down, not when it spent the past half-century as the beneficiary of Imperial favor. You're likely to see mutual nose-tweaking even under the cover of official cooperation, as is the nature of imperialist competition.
Another approach would be to join an anti-Cheliax alliance system, likely led by Andoran and possibly including an opportunistic Molthune, Rahadoum, and Shackles (though all of the latter would be politically problematic for various reasons). This is a risky approach. While it's true that there has been no general war in Avistan yet, Cheliax will look askance at Andoran looking to expand its alliance system, influence, and world market presence. This approach thus inevitably leads to a general war. The problems with a general war are obvious. Even if the Kintargo Contract limits Ravounel's battlefront to the border with Nidal, that same consideration also works to the Chelish system's advantage; Ravounel can't meaningfully contribute to a two-front war on Chelish soil without risking its armies. What's more Nidal alone is probably strong enough to hold or turn back a Ravounel advance. Meanwhile, Ravounel's commerce, and thus her people, will suffer, and that's before the point when Ravounel has to really mobilize to support the war effort (which will come quickly given its relatively small, heavily-urbanized population). Ultimately, without some other factor to break the Chelish powers, this strategy is a dead end.
Which brings us to the third approach; supporting new revolutionary organizing in Cheliax. The efficacy of this approach in the short term depends to a great extent on how the Glorious Reclamation operated. Was it more an occupying army or did it depend on local organizations for support? Having only read the first two volumes of Hell's Vengeance, I gather that there is some variation between those poles, depending on the locale and the populations concerned. Regardless, however, Longacre, Kantaria, and Westcrown's revolutionary energy will likely have been bled white by the events of Hell's Vengeance, the Reclamation's chapters will have been smashed, and any local organizations (I'm thinking particularly of the Children of Westcrown and the various Bellflower chapters here) will take a while to rebuild. Still, there are seeds that don't seem to be touched by Hell's Vengeance, particularly along the Hellcoast. Pezzack's precarious dual power remains in place. The strix remain restive, as do the giants of Thuryan (who already have Andoren support). This approach is more movement-oriented than state-oriented, making use of the Silver Ravens organization to bolster and eventually integrate chapters all over Cheliax. Doing this would require the Ravens transitioning away from being a nationalist civic group to an internationalist popular movement with a defined program that its affiliates-to-be can adopt, but that's a good thing.
This third approach can be married to either the first or second. Outward submission can play a smokescreen to inner subversion, and a building a fifth column could be invaluable in the context of a general war. It should be remembered, however, which approach Ravounel takes isn't purely discretionary. It depends on the course of the revolution and the balance of social forces following it - both within Ravounel itself and between it and the rest of Cheliax. Still, at least one of these orientations is practically guaranteed to guide Ravounel's strategy.
I decided to revisit this post because I want to ask exactly how the Glorious Reclamation should be represented in this campaign (assuming the GM wishes to give them a direct role in Kintargo's struggle against House Thrune) and what NPCs should be used to constitute their ranks. Let's take a look at the Glorious Reclamation article from Hell's Vengeance.
Knights inheritor hold the rank just beneath knights banneret. Although of noble birth themselves, knights inheritor do not lead their own troops, instead serving under a knight banneret’s standard. With few exceptions, any noble joining the order holds at least the rank of knight inheritor. In some cases, knight inheritors are not officially attached to an army. Instead, they hold the distinction of traveling from place to place fighting the troops of House Thrune and other forces of evil by themselves or with only a small retinue. Such an itinerant knight is commonly called by the unofficial title of knight-errant. A knight inheritor is equivalent in rank and responsibility to a captain or Hellknight maralictor. Beneath the knights are the sergeants. Neither noble nor knights, sergeants are the rank-and-file soldiers who fight in the Glorious Reclamation’s armies and serve the order as armorers, blacksmiths, builders, cooks, grooms, and more. Young men and women training as knights or soldiers hold the position of squire, the lowest rank in the order, commensurate with a Hellknight armiger.
Although the Glorious Reclamation is a religious knightly order, priests of Iomedae are usually considered subordinate to the non-clerical knights. Those priests officially attached to the Glorious Reclamation hold no military rank, but within the chain of command, they are equal to the rank of knight inheritor. They are afforded the title of chaplain, but are sometimes called by their Iomedaean rank of Sword Knight.
Arcane spellcasters who join the Glorious Reclamation are given the title of rassophore. Although they hold ceremonial rank equal to that of chaplains, rassophores have no position in the military chain of command. Most serve in an auxiliary capacity, carrying out assignments more suited to their abilities.
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So I'm thinking the GR's Kintargo cell should be headed by a knight-errant paladin, with a rassophore and a chaplin as his/her lieutenants (a wizard and cleric respectively), and about a dozen squires and other agents working under them. I'd probably place the three leaders at level 2 or 3 to start out.
Any other ideas? Where should their safehouse be?
It makes no sense for Glorious Reclamation to be in Kintargo. Any force in Kintargo would be trapped there because there is really one way through, a pass that is held by House Thrune. So they cannot use it as a staging area to attack the central part of Cheliax.
Further, if there is even a hint at the Glorious Reclamation in Kintargo, then Thrune is going to do everything in his power to wipe it out. Seeing he's got fairly powerful allies working for him, he's going to find them using every source he can and then wipe them out.
Mind you, this could explain why he ignores the Silver Ravens. They're small fish. They're minor nuisances while he kills off the biggest threat to House Thrune's rule. And if the Silver Ravens try to ally with Glorious Reclamation, they are going to die when Thrune destroys them under the assumption they're just more Glorious Reclamation lackeys.
So. It's not a good idea. There are far too many flaws in having Glorious Reclamation in Hell's Rebels. Their purpose is to keep the Cheliax military away from Kintargo long enough so that the Silver Ravens can eliminate Thrune and his allies, develop ties with local powers in the Kintargo region, and find a way to keep the Cheliax military from using that pass against them.
Let them be the background setting and tell their story through rumors and the like. Otherwise they serve no purpose for this campaign.
Which makes me kind of disappointed in HR beyond book 4 where the PCs dispose of Brazilliwhatever. There is a surprising amount of 'Bow to Thrune' not only in expected series like HV but CoT and HR. Appeasements must be done and there is never really any security since Thrune can go all Jerk Butt Genie and just roll in 'Oh, that contract was only valid if you used the dialect from the 4th layer that was based on the 2nd dialect of the 2nd layer that went extinct 30k years ago.' That is Hell's hat, and the lesson that you never deal with demons or devils because they will shank you for the lulz.
The contract negotiation was very weak with ludicrous demands that were unfortunately tied to the whole system of weakening Brazilli. I think someone suggested to just end the AP with book 4 and that indeed seems the best option.
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I disagree. :-)
One other thing to realize about Glorious Reclamation is this: they are not heroes. They are antagonists.
As such, they don't have a place in Hell's Rebels. HR has a legitimate complaint against Thrune. GR does not. They are trying to overthrow the existing government that has stabilized Cheliax.
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Doubious honor considering. I'm sure Stalin stabilized Russia.
Plus Brazali made up a bunch of dumb laws like banning tea, he can do that and no doubt has it all done in triplicate for the PCs to check out.
Plus if we really want to nitpick, the Children of Westcrown have no reason to try to end the Shadowcurse. Ilnerik is a Thrune agent who was given the go ahead to have the shadowbeasts roam at night. People are even given ample warning of sundown coming and arrangements have been made so people can camp out in homes and businesses if they are far from their home. That is pretty generous and Ilnerik hasn't tried to take the place over.