Arrowsong Strike Useless / Broken?

[GeneMemeScene]

I had a question about the second paragraph of the Arrowsong Strike ability:

At 18th level, an Arrowsong minstrel using a multiple-target spell with this ability can deliver one ray or line of effect with each attack when using a full-attack action, up to the maximum allowed by the spell (in the case of ray effects). Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost.

Except without the Magus' spell combat, this doesn't work (as it does for the Eldritch Archer). If you cast the spell then you can't full attack on that turn, unless you use quickened Scorching Ray or something (and I assume this isn't the one niche it's supposed to be for).

[DM_Blake]

The first paragraph lets you cast a spell AND make an attack, so this ability is already including the spellcasting for free with the attack. All the second paragraph is doing is expanding the ability to use a full-attack to cast and fire off multiple rays (etc.) with the spellcasting still being included.

I think it works fine.

[GeneMemeScene]

DM_Blake wrote:

The first paragraph lets you cast a spell AND make an attack, so this ability is already including the spellcasting for free with the attack. All the second paragraph is doing is expanding the ability to use a full-attack to cast and fire off multiple rays (etc.) with the spellcasting still being included.

I think it works fine.

The first paragraph only lets you use spellstrike as a magus with a ranged attack. This is part of the standard action of casting the spell. The standard action of casting the spell should preclude a full attack.

[Shisumo]

Since I think we all know what RAI is, the question is simply, "Does the sentence allow you to parse it in a way that makes it work the way we know it's supposed to?" The answer is yes: by saying the archer "can deliver," it is granting permission to do so. It's not broken.

[DM_Blake]

The first paragraph lets you cast your spell (Standard action) AND make a ranged WEAPON attack (Standard action) to deliver the spell. That's normally two STANDARD actions (plus normally you can't deliver spells with a ranged weapon) but you can do it with this ability at level 6.

TWELVE levels later (!) you get the ability to do exactly the same thing as a Full attack: cast the spell AND make the attack(s) as described. The only thing that's changing with this 18th level ability is that now it's a full attack rather than a Standard action.

[GeneMemeScene]

DM_Blake wrote:

The first paragraph lets you cast your spell (Standard action) AND make a ranged WEAPON attack (Standard action) to deliver the spell. That's normally two STANDARD actions (plus normally you can't deliver spells with a ranged weapon) but you can do it with this ability at level 6.

Actually it's normally one standard action. Casting a spell that has an attack roll gives you a free melee touch or ranged touch (depending on the spell). The Magus' spellstrike simply lets that touch attack get replaced with a weapon attack.

Scorching Ray fires 3 rays by CL 18, and does so all withing the standard action of casting, all at full attack bonus. Does this convert into: full-round action, fire three infused arrows at bab, bab-5, and bab-10? And if so, why does it use the phrasing "when using a full-attack action" rather than "as a full attack action"?

[DM_Blake]

GeneMemeScene wrote:

DM_Blake wrote:

The first paragraph lets you cast your spell (Standard action) AND make a ranged WEAPON attack (Standard action) to deliver the spell. That's normally two STANDARD actions (plus normally you can't deliver spells with a ranged weapon) but you can do it with this ability at level 6.

Actually it's normally one standard action. Casting a spell that has an attack roll gives you a free melee touch or ranged touch (depending on the spell). The Magus' spellstrike simply lets that touch attack get replaced with a weapon attack.

Scorching Ray fires 3 rays by CL 18, and does so all withing the standard action of casting, all at full attack bonus. Does this convert into: full-round action, fire three infused arrows at bab, bab-5, and bab-10? And if so, why does it use the phrasing "when using a full-attack action" rather than "as a full attack action"?

We're not talking about a magus. We're talking about a bard. NORMALLY a bard cannot cast a spell and FIRE A BOW in the same standard action. The level 6 paragraph of this ability lets them do exactly that. Two standard actions done as one single action.

The level 18 paragraph simply extends that ability to a full attack, allowing the bard to use a full attack AND cast the spell.

If an 18th level wizard casts Scorching Ray, he makes his three ranged attacks as part of casting the spell, but he is limited to the range of the spell (Short range, 105 feet) and he cannot ALSO fire three arrows in that same action. But a level 18 arrowsong minstrel can do both, cast Scorching Ray AND ALSO fire three arrows in the same full attack action. Now those rays, traveling on the arrows, do arrow damage AND 4d6 fire damage and they are not limited to 105 feet.