Bards and flutes


Advice

Sovereign Court

So I am making a Bard for pfs, I was wondering if there was a way to use a a flute for bardic performance while still fighting. I know I could use any number of singing/Dancing alternatives but I would rather not as I am pretty sold on flutes. Or are instrument bards an unviable option as they would only stand there and play?


Cedric De Lance wrote:
So I am making a Bard for pfs, I was wondering if there was a way to use a a flute for bardic performance while still fighting. I know I could use any number of singing/Dancing alternatives but I would rather not as I am pretty sold on flutes. Or are instrument bards an unviable option as they would only stand there and play?

Improved unarmed strike and kick people to your kickbut music?

Lantern Lodge

Play it one-handed? Wield a boot blade? Improvised weapon (flute)? Thrown weapons using your toes?

Sovereign Court

Hmm, that's a little tricky. It SOUNDS like it wouldn't make sense to be playing a flute and attacking with a rapier at the same time.

If you're concerned about both your hands being occupied because you're playing your flute, you can find many effective ways to contribute to combat. Also, unless you're playing a martial-focused bard archetype, I would avoid getting into melee and "fighting".

Bards do an excellent job of supporting the party without necessarily attacking or getting in enemy faces. You could also step near and use aid another to buff ally AC without interrupting your flute playing. Bards also have a wonderful array of healing and support spells. My personal recommendations are:

Cantrips
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Mending
Unwitting Ally
Haunted Fey Aspect
Resistance

1st level spells
Cure Light Wounds
Liberating Command
Saving Finale
Chord of Shards
Ear-Piercing Scream
Feather Fall
Grease
Silent Image
Summon Minor Monster (Skunks, Compsagnathus)
Summon Monster 1
Timely Inspiration (Once you're 5th level)
Unnatural Lust

These are just recommendations based on what I'm perceiving you're looking to do. You can play that flute to your heart's content, Just make sure you keep a weapon or have a backup plan for when you run out of rounds of Bardic Performance.

EDIT - BigNorse and Jeff bring up good points, too! Improved Unarmed strike is a great idea! Catch Off-Guard to use the flute as an improvised weapon (A masterwork flute can also be made of silver to bonk through some DR!!) Never heard of Boot Blade, must have missed that one... <.<


Get a Totem Spear and make the battle flute for you.


CRB wrote:
Maintaining a bardic performance is a free action, and does not interfere with other activities (such as spell casting, moving, attacking, etc.).

Play your flute and stab away.


... Look ma no hands?

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Weirdly enough, you don't even need to be trained in the type of performance you're doing for any of the bardic performances except for Countersong and Distraction. So the quality of your performance is kind of moot.

Presumably, you could stick your flute in your ear and try to spin around fast enough for the air to make noise as it moves over the keys. I'm not entirely sure what type of performance that would be, but technically, it can be done.


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From a real-world perspective (if you care):

You can play any end-blown flute one handed, but you can't usually get the full range of notes on it.

You can actually play smaller transverse or side-blown flutes with one hand (say, around piccolo size) without too much trouble, but you can only get about 4 notes. Larger ones like modern concert flutes can also be played with one hand, but it's a bit unwieldy.

It's much easier to play any of the fipple woodwinds) with one hand, because you can actually hold them with your mouth if you need to adjust your grip to reach more notes. You can also do this trick with smaller vessel flutes or ocarinas, but larger ones will be a bit heavy. Downside to these kinds of instruments is that you can't talk at all while playing a fipple woodwind (because you hold them in your mouth...)

You can talk over any "non-fipple" flute without losing your embouchure, so you can easily switch between playing and talking.

(Why, yes, I did sell--and have to demonstrate--folk instruments at a Renaissance Faire! However did you guess?) :-)

Dark Archive

Off topic a bit, but I misread the thread title initially as "bards and flukes".

My mind goes in strange directions sometimes.

Anyway, I have an easier time seeing a person wielding a rapier while maintaining Inspire Courage when using a flute then I do if they use a lute or mandolin. Personally, I always have my bards use either a lute or a lyre.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

In the first novel of Brandon Sanderson's Storm Light Archive, their is a scene where a character performs with a flute as an accompaniment to storytelling, there is a similar scene in Kill Bill. In both cases the performer alternates between haunting notes, and action. The gaps in the music are presented as much a part of the performance as the playing itself. Since this is a game that is more about imagination that practicality, a similar dramatic approach could be taken, it might, to at least nod ones head in the direction of realism require you to hold a light/one-handed melee weapon and no buckler or shield. Spell casting is a little easier to explain, but I wouldn't have qualms with it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Bonus points for adamantine flue / improvised weapon mastery and just club people with your flute.


Bardic performance no longer uses instruments or the Perform skill, so I've pretty much thought of it as a vocal-based ability. You can call it flute music for flavor, but it does strain credulity to think of someone fighting using a rapier and still playing an instrument. The bard in our home campaign uses her sackbut (an early version of the trombone) as an improvised weapon to get around the hand-switching idea.

Rob's quote is valid, but it basically just admits that bardic performance is only vocally-based. The only other free-action "performance" is talking; everything else takes at least one hand and some time to do.

Sovereign Court

Did this in a home game long ago...

Sharpen the end of the flute (reed flutes at first, then a silvered flute later when I picked up a MW version)- then in the normal pause in the tune, use it to stab the BBE.

Hollow tube with "blood"/finger holes = Bleed damage... (Not legal in PFS).


GM Lamplighter wrote:

Bardic performance no longer uses instruments or the Perform skill, so I've pretty much thought of it as a vocal-based ability. You can call it flute music for flavor, but it does strain credulity to think of someone fighting using a rapier and still playing an instrument. The bard in our home campaign uses her sackbut (an early version of the trombone) as an improvised weapon to get around the hand-switching idea.

Rob's quote is valid, but it basically just admits that bardic performance is only vocally-based. The only other free-action "performance" is talking; everything else takes at least one hand and some time to do.

It's not only vocal, it's visual...you can do interpretive dance, or something similar (inspired miming anyone?) as well.

Whether it's audible or visual needs to be known so you can determine effectiveness of the performance. Target needs to be able to either hear or see the performance to get the bonuses.

Scarab Sages

Brigg wrote:

Hmm, that's a little tricky. It SOUNDS like it wouldn't make sense to be playing a flute and attacking with a rapier at the same time.

I could see flute-rapiers being a thing in Pathfinder. It would be very Elven, actually.

The Exchange

I've always envisioned a flute bayonet.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Maintaining Bardic Performance is a Free action, so you can use two hands to play the flute as a free action. Let go as a free action, draw a one handed weapon using Quickdraw and attack as a full round or standard action. This works best for thrown weapons. You can also use Improved Unarmed Strike, or maybe a weapon like a klar or cestus that is strapped to your arm, but allows for the use of your hand for other actions.

Grand Lodge

Maybe an overtone flute?

It looks like with a brace to hold it where you can put your mouth on it, it wouldn't need any hands at all for some basic music.

Grand Lodge

Dorothy Lindman wrote:


You can talk over any "non-fipple" flute without losing your embouchure, so you can easily switch between playing and talking.

(Why, yes, I did sell--and have to demonstrate--folk instruments at a Renaissance Faire! However did you guess?) :-)

If it is for Ren Faire, isn't the more relevant question "can you switch easily between playing and drinking?"

:)

Scarab Sages

Codanous wrote:
I've always envisioned a flute bayonet.

Maybe something that generates music by collecting blood as it stabs and running it through a hydraulic water-pipe-ey kind of system? :)


There are things like harp/harmonica holders (in RL) that can fix the instrument in front of your mouth, might be possible to build something similar for flutes, i think.

That way you would need a hand for playing, but not to produce any tone and you can take away your hand from combat.


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Prestidigitation.

Prestidigitation can lift 1 pound. Google tells me that the average flute is between 1 and 1.5 pounds so a relatively light flute can be carried with Prestidigitation.

Stopping airflow through a 3-4mm hole is a minor effect not in the purview of any other spell, therefore it is within the purview of Prestidigitation.

Prestidigitation can therefore be used to hold and play a light flute. The bard will probably have to actually provide breath. Additionally, masterwork is probably not an option for a light battle flute. Silver flutes seem to be a lot heavier.


Attach a blade to it? So yo using your head and flute to keep playing, while it slices around.


This came up in a thread a few years ago By RAW playing the flute is a free action that doesn't require hands. It absolutely shatters verisimilitude but is necessary for game balance.

Grand Lodge

In the weapon master player companion there is a war flute. See if that helps is a flute and a weapon.


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I could honestly see a sword cane to be a good alternative for what you want, with some modifications.

I played a bard in 3.5 with Harp as his instrument. He was an archer with a bunch of extra strings offset to one side. Was kind of fun.


Yeah, Weapon Master's Handbook introduces a "War Flute" as an example for their weapon building system. You might want to give that book a look.


Double points if you play Thick as a Brick.


Bardic Performance is always Supernatural at the least. For all you know, you don't even use your mouth to play the flute—it just floats in the air next to your head and plays itself. There is literally nothing to contradict this.


Grand lounge and Brew Bird already said it: check out the war flute from Weapon Master's Handbook. It may be just what you're looking for...

Grand Lodge

Another option is Alter Self as a level 2 spell. If I remember correctly their are forms for both strength and dex that have multiple pairs of arms.


The movie Circle of Iron has a flute for your bard.

/cevah


Let's see, Arcane Duelist allows you to cast spells with your sword so you could do the above with the fancy flute in one hand and cast your spells with the sword.

Take a couple of levels of Alchemist (1?) and get an extra arm. That plays the flute while you use your other arms for weapon and shield. Not sure if that is allowed as the arm can hold things but I don't know if it can play in instrument.

What about a harmonica? You get one of those things to strap it to your head....

Dark Archive

You could set up a frame around your neck like Bob Dylan or a subway busker.

While you are at it, why not tie a pair of cymbals to your knees?

http://www.s1jobs.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/one-man-band.png


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

Make a Dagger Flute. It would be an exotic Weapon but think how awesome it would be if you can get it summon a Dragon ie like the Zyusoken aka Dragon Dagger.

Sovereign Court

Pirate Rob wrote:
CRB wrote:
Maintaining a bardic performance is a free action, and does not interfere with other activities (such as spell casting, moving, attacking, etc.).
Play your flute and stab away.

Where is that quote from? It's not from the CRB or any of the various SRDs online.


Illeist wrote:
Pirate Rob wrote:
CRB wrote:
Maintaining a bardic performance is a free action, and does not interfere with other activities (such as spell casting, moving, attacking, etc.).
Play your flute and stab away.
Where is that quote from? It's not from the CRB or any of the various SRDs online.

CRB, page 34

Starting a bardic performance is a standard action, but it can be maintained each round as a free action.

Sovereign Court

CrystalSeas wrote:
Illeist wrote:
Pirate Rob wrote:
CRB wrote:
Maintaining a bardic performance is a free action, and does not interfere with other activities (such as spell casting, moving, attacking, etc.).
Play your flute and stab away.
Where is that quote from? It's not from the CRB or any of the various SRDs online.

CRB, page 34

Starting a bardic performance is a standard action, but it can be maintained each round as a free action.

That definitely has a few words in it. A few of them are even similar to those other words! It's just not the quote that Pirate Rob posted.

Liberty's Edge

Illeist wrote:
That definitely has a few words in it. A few of them are even similar to those other words! It's just not the quote that Pirate Rob posted.

Sniggevert, 2010


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How about a kazoo instead?


Brew Bird wrote:
Yeah, Weapon Master's Handbook introduces a "War Flute" as an example for their weapon building system. You might want to give that book a look.

That is a pretty lethal woodwind instrument.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Pirate Rob wrote:
CRB wrote:
Maintaining a bardic performance is a free action, and does not interfere with other activities (such as spell casting, moving, attacking, etc.).
Play your flute and stab away.

Pirate Rob, can you give me a page reference for that? I can't find it in the PRD or in my 6th printing CRB.

EDIT

My CRB says:

CRB p. 35 wrote:
Starting a bardic performance is a standard action, but it can be maintained each round as a free action. Changing a bardic performance from one effect to another requires the bard to stop the previous performance and start a new one as a standard action. A bardic performance cannot be disrupted, but it ends immediately if the bard is killed, paralyzed, stunned, knocked unconscious, or otherwise prevented from taking a free action to maintain it each round. A bard cannot have more than one bardic performance in effect at one time.


Depending on which performance you use, you may not even need the flute to start it. For example, a performance like Countersong specifies you make a Perform check so you can pick whichever Perform skill you want. If you have a masterwork flute that provides a bonus on Perform, you'd probably want to use it. But in the case of a performance like Inspire Courage, it requires no check so the exact nature of the performance is left arbitrary, save for picking whether it is auditory or visual. Inspire Courage can be as simple as yelling, "KEEP IT UP!" or just a victory fist-pump and, through the supernatural capacity of the class ability, that gesture is infused with latent magic to measurably increase your teammates' combat capacities. So it's only for performances that explicitly call out making a Perform check that you need to select what kind of performance it will be. Using an instrument opens up masterwork bonuses, but it might occupy your hands. Using a non-instrument performance like singing, dance, or oratory removes the hand burden from the equation, but you lock yourself out of masterwork options.

The only base performances that require an actual Perform check are Countersong (must be keyboard, percussion, wind, string, or sing) and Distraction (must be act, comedy, dance, or oratory).


Kahel Stormbender wrote:

Off topic a bit, but I misread the thread title initially as "bards and flukes".

My mind goes in strange directions sometimes.

Anyway, I have an easier time seeing a person wielding a rapier while maintaining Inspire Courage when using a flute then I do if they use a lute or mandolin. Personally, I always have my bards use either a lute or a lyre.

Archer bard that plays a nice chord every time he looses an arrow?

Liberty's Edge

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fatbaldbloke wrote:
Archer bard that plays a nice chord every time he looses an arrow?

Tuned Bowstring


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CBDunkerson wrote:
fatbaldbloke wrote:
Archer bard that plays a nice chord every time he looses an arrow?
Tuned Bowstring

That'll do bard, that'll do

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