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Marvel's Iron Fist


Television

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1 person marked this as a favorite.

The complaint I heard, wasn't so much that he was 'rich'... Though I'm sure some people are petty that way.

What I heard wasn't even a comparison to Batman. It was Green Arrow. We've just watched 4 season of a man who thought dead and gained extraordinary abilities and came back after years in isolation to save his city from corruption. The fact that they are both rich is just icing on the cake.

I think the reason some characters get passes... is that the wealth is almost mandatory for the character. Batman NEEDS to be filthy rich to build his cars and jets and computers... Iron Man NEEDS to be rich to develop a super suit of that level... Even Green Arrow has the trick arrows that the average person can't just... do. Nobody complains about them being wealthy.

Iron Fist?? Kid grows up learning kung fu, comes back and kicks butt... Nothing about that requires a multi-million dollar company backing him up so people notice it a bit more. The idea that he made his name as one of the 'heroes for hire' makes it a bit rougher. He's rich but he's charging for heroing?? What the heck?!?

Just a lot of Knee-jerk reactions to things that have long been canon.

Dark Archive

phantom1592 wrote:

Iron Fist?? Kid grows up learning kung fu, comes back and kicks butt... Nothing about that requires a multi-million dollar company backing him up so people notice it a bit more. The idea that he made his name as one of the 'heroes for hire' makes it a bit rougher. He's rich but he's charging for heroing?? What the heck?!?

Yeah, that's my thought. Batman and Iron Man kind of need to be rich, to do what they do, and it's an important part of their history.

Iron Fist has spent much of his career operating alongside Luke Cage as a Hero for Hire, living out of a place over a soup kitchen. Hardly Stark Industries, with nary a heavily armed experimental military IronFistMobile in sight.

I wonder if he's going to spend the first half of the season fighting to get 'his' company back, only to realize in the back half that he's an orphan who grew up in a magical kung fu city, and doesn't know the first thing about running a big corporation that employs thousands, and doesn't actually want to be a CEO all that much, and just take his thousand dollar shoes and silk tie off and walk back out onto the street barefoot, the way he came into the building...


Except Iron Fist and Batman only have two things in common: money and martial arts. You might as well say Connor McGregor = Batman.

Moon Knight is the Marvel Batman analog, not Iron Fist.


HeHateMe wrote:

Except Iron Fist and Batman only have two things in common: money and martial arts. You might as well say Connor McGregor = Batman.

Moon Knight is the Marvel Batman analog, not Iron Fist.

Generally agree... but the public doesn't realize that. They watch oliver queen coming back from his island, and Bruce Wayne coming out of the Himalyas and then see Danny coming back from his mystical city... and there is a definite similarity.

Not to mention that money and Martial arts are a large focus of Batman... ever since the Biff/Pow/Wham days.

That's really the problem with Superheroes in general. There are probably only 20-30 archtypes (If I'm being REALLY generous...) and once you hit enough characters live action, people start pointing out the similarities...

As if they would prefer a straight up REBOOT or something >.<

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

Vidmaster7 wrote:
Eh ill take the other side and say I dislike critics and refuse to call what they do work.

Gosh, I thought I got paid for what I do and that I have trained for this quite much.

MadScientistWorking wrote:
Im not sure if blaming Trump either for your show getting bad ratings either is a good thing. Like what the hell was he thinking?

That is just being desperate.

Scarab Sages

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, I'd heard that critics were being harsh on Iron Fist. Thankfully, I could give two s%~#s less what pretentious douchebags think. I've enjoyed all the other Marvel Netflix series (even Jessica Jones, which is the character I knew the least about), so I don't have too many worries about this one.

Dark Archive

This all is available tomorrow, I can't see myself getting much sleep the next few days. Unless it's horrible, which I hope it is not, I'll probably watch 4 episodes per sitting.


Discussions of Trump, the 1%, and why some people have an issue with society's increasing wealth disparity are likely beside the point (though we won't know for sure until we see whether those are themes of the show). Happily, we'll all be able to find out for ourselves tomorrow. :)

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm two episodes in and it's been great so far. There's been a few slow sections but no more than what we saw in the other Netflix Marvel shows.

Ignore the representation drama and enjoy.


4 episodes down so far. The previews were a bit too harsh, although it's certainly not the best show ever. It's nowhere close to as being good as Daredevil Season 1 or Jessica Jones. But it compares reasonably well to Luke Cage or Daredevil Season 2.

I would prefer it if the show was about Colleen Wing though. Jessica Henwick is really good and a more dynamic lead than Finn Jones. Also, I'm certain she did a lot more training and lot more of her own stunts. The cage fight sequence is pretty brutal and impressive, and as of this point in the series Jones has not had any scenes to compare.

Spoiler:
The Hand being the bad guys is a bit worrying as well. If the back half of the season is full of Infinite Ninjas like DD S2 this could go south real fast.

Evil Faramir as the morally ambiguous semi-villain is a good casting call.

Scarab Sages

So after watching most of the day, I'm about half way through. So far, it's been not bad.

Spoiler:
I was a bit disappointed that it seems to be The Hand as the main villains, and that it seems (so far) to simply be their drug smuggling operation.

I was surpised, however, to see that Madam Gao seems to be a member of The Hand. Although, I get the feeling there's way more to her than that. No matter what, though, I love the character. So full of menace and supreme confidence, especially in the package of a little old lady.

Finn Jones is doing a pretty decent job, but his fight scenes could be a bit better. And I wish they'd have him use the power of the Iron Fist for more than just the punching. I did like the fight tournament he did against The Hand. That was pretty cool.

I liked seeing Claire and Jeri again. It helps to bring that connection with the other shows. It seems like they're shaping Claire up to be the common link between all the heroes.

The chick playing Colleen Wing is a hottie. And she's pretty damned bad ass as well. Her fight scenes come across better. I'm really hoping they run with her and Misty Knight as Private Investigators. And I hope they play up more of her Samurai past. I loved the references to Bushido they had her throwing out.

The Meachums have all been mixed. I've gone back and forth between disliking them and kind of feeling sorry for them. It took me awhile to realize that Harold was being played by the dude who played Faramir in the Lord of the Rings movies.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Two episodes in, I also enjoyed it. I also don't mind if it's a bit slower because to be honest, I don't like the modern tendency to replace story by action effects too much.

I also do think that Finn Jones does a reasonably good job so far, so I've nothing to complain at this front either. I'm looking forward to the next episodes.


3.5 episodes in and it's pretty meh. I'm not interested in any of the characters, the action is pretty lackluster (combination of actors who aren't that good at film fighting and crappy editing) and uninteresting baddies. The Hand were pretty lousy baddies in Daredevil and I don't hold much hopes for them being any better here.


Two episodes in and quite enjoying it so far. I actually enjoy the grounded, less flashy fight scene aspect -- I don't feel like I'm on a merry-go-round half the time.

It's probably my least favorite Netflix Marvel show so far, but NO WAY it deserves to be 19% (or whatever) on Rotten Tomatoes.

I'll keep watching.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah...I'm only mid way through the 3rd episode and I'm bored.
I'm usually very patient with series and I'll probably tough it out until the end but the fights are dull and kinda poorly shot.

I actually think that Colleen Wing is a more interesting protagonist than Danny Rand. I legitimately like her stern, warrior, protective honorable sensei thing that that she has going on.

Otherwise, it's Danny Rand. It's Iron Fist. The fights are supposed to be GOOD. It's essentially supposed to be a martial arts drama. It's a drama but the martial arts aspect of it is very suspect. If you want a good example of a martial arts drama, INTO THE BADLANDS is a good one.

IRON FIST so far? Not so much.

The performances are actually pretty good though.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

I've watched the first episode. I have two chief complaints:

1) Finn Jones doesn't know how to bow. And no one on set corrected him. You look at the person you bow to, not the floor.

2) One of the hit squad must have been a complete idiot that doesn't kill people professionally. Either that or he enjoys breaking his own wrist. You don't hold a gun sideways to shoot.

I've liked the understated movements of the fighting. Definitely a soft style. Almost Circle Dancing.

Liberty's Edge

I like it. Enough to binge watch it on St.Patrick's Day... so I guess it's good...


So make sure you go back and favorite my anti-critic sentiment if you watch it and liked it. I'm gonna start on it tomorrow so i'm going to avoid thread till I finish it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Haven't watched much but I like what I've seen so far

It dose kind of remind me of the first season of Arrow .... only less murdery


Bit of a cop out at the end.

Spoiler:
The show seemed to imply that Danny and Davos may have been lovers in K'un-lun, but then rolled back a few scenes later and emphasised that Danny was talking about being trusted friends and comrades. Almost like the writer went, "Wait! I'm in danger of making Danny a slightly more interesting character, better roll back on that."

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Just finished.

I haven't seen any of the source material, so I have no idea how it compares there, but the story and acting were fine. There were visible seams in some of the action sequences, but I've seen much worse.

The story was jam packed with complex potentially interesting characters, but they didn't do a good job drawing you in and getting you to connect with any of these people. Indeed, the moral ambiguity with all three of the Meacham's... and to a lesser extent EVERY other major character except Claire, got to be a convoluted muddle.


I'm six episodes in. This show is just fine. Slow, but fine.

Liberty's Edge

There's a drunken master in the show.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Finished watching the show. I enjoyed it immensely, aside from there being a total lack of Shang-Chi (unless I totally missed him and didn't realize it). Interesting note, episode 6 is directed by RZA of the Wu-Tang Clan. Also, the moment I heard Outkast's "So Fresh, So Clean" in the first episode, my worries went away.


First couple episodes plot and dialogue fell a little flat for me. I kind of dont like the "but its me" over and over while failing to just say things that only he would know. It seemed to pick up, but by episode 3-4 im still liking daredevil more.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Daredevil was better, but Iron Fist suffers also from having to follow Luke Cage, which was a great series (that last episode was a complete letdown). So I get where you're coming from. I'm no martial artist, but aside from the bowing thing that someone else mentioned, I didn't have a problem with Finn Jones at all. I do think that had someone a bit more knowledgeable of the martial arts genre was showrunner rather than Scott Buck, who worked on Six Feet Under and Dexter, then maybe that would have gone a long way to making the series better. Bear in mind, this guy will also be the showrunner for The Inhumans as well, so it's not like he brought his A-game to this show.


I preferred the "early on" fighting style of Iron Fist to the later episodes. My opinion is that his fighting style should be a fusion of tai ch'i chuan and "tiger style" as hinted at early on.

Cliffhanger endings are becoming an object of annoyance. If I didn't know that they're all entering into The Defenders around mid-year ... hangs on cliff


1 person marked this as a favorite.

On episode 8. It's not as bad as the reviews made it out to be. Not as good as Daredevil season 1, unfortunately, and definitely not as good as Jessica Jones or Luke Cage. I don't mind the Meachum siblings or the corporate in-fighting.

I really wish they'd gotten a better fight choreographer, though. DD's fights were miles ahead of Iron Fist's. Which is totally backwards, since IF's superpower is 'I know kung-fu.'

One thing the reviews got right is that Colleen Wing is the best thing to come out of the show.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Finished it a few hours ago.

I'm not a fan of the show overall. I think that the two most interesting character arcs are Colleen Wing and Ward Meechum.

David Wenham's performance was interesting to watch as well.

The fights and the show get better overall but it's still pretty weak tea. Unlike the other Marvel Netflix shows I probably wont be re-visiting this one.

Seriously I know that other people have brought this up and a really dont know if it was a budgetary issue but I'm rewatching INTO THE BADLANDS and there isnt one fight in IRON FIST that's as good as ANY of the fights in INTO THE BADLANDS.

Not just in the choreography but in how the fights are shot. They treat the fights as part of he narrative and you can tell that the actors put the time in so that when they cut between them and the stunt men it's not too jarring. The difference in quality between the two shows is apparent.

I really wanted to like IRON FIST more than I did and it's nowhere are bad as the critics said it was but it's not memorable or good either. Parts of it are good but as whole product? No.

Liberty's Edge

IF finished. So far, from most liked to least liked:
DD1
JJ
IF
DD2
LC


ShinHakkaider wrote:
Not just in the choreography but in how the fights are shot. They treat the fights as part of he narrative and you can tell that the actors put the time in so that when they cut between them and the stunt men it's not too jarring. The difference in quality between the two shows is apparent.

You can really tell that Charlie Cox put in the hours and hours of hard work it took to master his Daredevil choreography and Finn Jones didn't. Jessica Henwick is good, maybe as good as Elodie Yung.

This show isn't even close to the same league as Into the Badlands. Badlands fighting is part of the story, the narrative continues in the fighting itself. It's much closer to the Hong Kong wuxia style than western fight scenes.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Chaine "The Butcher" Alazario wrote:

IF finished. So far, from most liked to least liked:

DD1
JJ
IF
DD2
LC

Luke Cage at the BOTTOM?

WHAT?!?!?!

Dark Archive

karlprosek wrote:
You can really tell that Charlie Cox put in the hours and hours of hard work it took to master his Daredevil choreography and Finn Jones didn't. Jessica Henwick is good, maybe as good as Elodie Yung.

I got the same impression. I'll admit, we've been spoiled over the last decade or so with actors like Hugh Jackman, Chris Evans, Henry Cavill, etc. willing to totally change their bodies and go nuts with martial arts or fighting training for roles, but it is what it is, and it really contrasts with Finn Jones in Iron Fist.

The actor playing Ward Meachum, on the other hand, did a great job of playing his various breakdowns, and both Jessica's were great in their roles.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

One of the best examples of drunken fighting I have ever seen. Even got the insults right.

Scarab Sages

Not finished yet, but....

Spoiler:
The last episode we watched last night was the one where they have her tied up in Colleen's dojo. From the moment they introduced Gao in Daredevil, I kind of figured there was something big about her character. Now I can't help but wonder if she's some sort of gender-swapped version of Master Khan. Especially with some of the power she's shown, and that line about being tortured in the 17th century.

Even if that's not the direction they're going, I'm still enjoying her character immensely.

And although I stopped watching Into the Badlands after one episode, I can agree the fighting scenes in that show were far superior.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Aberzombie wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Agents of Atlas introduced the notion that there are multiple dragons scattered around, playing a long, long game of setting their organizations up against one another. Since her appearance in Daredevil, where she mentions living 'much father away' than China, and speaking all languages, etc. I've had the notion that Gao is a dragon, in human form.

The thing that puzzles me about Gao in this storyline is her association with the Hand. In Daredevil, Nobu was Hand (which, in the comics, and in the Netflix Daredevil shows, has been a traditionally Japanese organization, and not nearly as multi-cultural as the Hand in this Iron Fist series), and she was something else, something more Chinese/triad in origin. And now she's a Hand boss?

While she was never explicitly said *not* to be Hand, in Daredevil, Gao as Hand, IMO, does not fit with what we've seen before.

Anywho, finally done with it, and it was, storywise, not really any stronger or weaker than Luke Cage or Daredevil, just lacking some of the better fight choreography of Daredevil, IMO, and perhaps suffering from my having seen this 'formula' three or four times now, with the previous shows, and having built up a tolerance to it. If this show had come out before Daredevil, I'd probably be ranting and raving about how good it was. A high bar was set before it, and it didn't exactly fly over it to earn great applause and blaze new trails, IMO.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ha, Iron Fist mention's Pete's Dragon, and now it's on the top of my Netflix queue as something people are watching...

What a bizarre ripple-down effect!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Set wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

The thing that puzzles me about Gao in this storyline is her association with the Hand. In Daredevil, Nobu was Hand (which, in the comics, and in the Netflix Daredevil shows, has been a traditionally Japanese organization, and not nearly as multi-cultural as the Hand in this Iron Fist series), and she was something else, something more Chinese/triad in origin. And now she's a Hand boss?

While she was never explicitly said *not* to be Hand, in Daredevil, Gao as Hand, IMO, does not fit with what we've seen before.

I'm glad I'm not the only one wondering what happened to the portrayal of the Hand and Gao's association with them. I thought I totally missed a major plot point and couldn't figure out how I had missed her connection with Hand from season one of Daredevil.

I guess they needed to link the series with the overall Netflix universe and the use of the Hand as the major villain makes sense, but the pretty big changes with the Hand as an organization felt a little jarring.


Finished, I like it reasonably well. It's not the best thing ever, but it was much less annoying than Daredevil. My personal ranking:

JJ
LC
IF
DD1
...
...
...
...
DD2

I predict DD2 will be the worst Netflix Marvel series for all time. The problem with Daredevil, as it's been written, I couldn't give 2 s#~~s if the title character was in the show or not. Everyone is always mad at DD, and rightfully so, because he does nothing but f!!! things up for everyone else. As written, he has no redeeming qualities and his only purpose in the show is to kill the bad guy at the end. Other characters range from okay to great, but the title character is the worst thing since I got pneumonia in boot camp.


TrevG wrote:

I'm glad I'm not the only one wondering what happened to the portrayal of the Hand and Gao's association with them. I thought I totally missed a major plot point and couldn't figure out how I had missed her connection with Hand from season one of Daredevil.

I guess they needed to link the series with the overall Netflix universe and the use of the Hand as the major villain makes sense, but the pretty big changes with the Hand as an organization felt a little jarring.

I've thought Gao has been working for Crane Mother ever since DD S1 when we saw the Steel Serpent symbol on her heroin packets. I can't see the actual Crane Mother being out of her city for so long.

What's interesting is the name of her drunken master guard in China- Zhou Cheng. That was the name of the guy possessed by Chi Lin in the comics- the monster that hunts and kills Iron Fists. If she's associated with Chi Lin instead of Crane Mother it could explain a lot.

It's been implied that she's Hand through all of Iron Fist, but does she ever claim it herself? People say it about her, and infer it, but Bakuto doesn't ever explicitly say that and he's in the best position to know.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
One of the best examples of drunken fighting I have ever seen. Even got the insults right.

Yeah if I have to give ANY props to the fights in the show at all, it's gonna be for that actor and that fight in particular. I honestly wanted to know more about him. Especially as he chides Danny about their particular roles in their war.

I mean the few shots they had set up from above that fight showed how that guy was just abusing Danny everytime he tried strike at him. That fight was a solid example of fighting an opponent who just constantly keeps you off balance.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

4 episodes in, and I keep hoping for

Spoiler:
Joy to be more evil. She's the most competent member of her family, and having her be a hand lieutenant would have filled her out a bit more. As it is, it just makes me doubt everyone's intellect on teamevil when they leave the clearly smarter, more ruthless sibling in the dark but bring in the dumb one, seemingly simply because she's nicer than him.

She'd have gotten Colleen to sign the damn paper.

Liberty's Edge

From the ending(holy! what an ending!), I fully expect a Season 2, and one that will go deeper into the supernatural / heaven / alternate dimensions, and I expect to see Zhou Cheng, Gao, Howard, Ward and Joy again! (Joy actually mad at Iron Fist now, and I expect opposition by Davos... at the beginning Joy was the only one caring about him.. I love how the show's characters do 180's like that)

I agree with the others here: Gao is awesome. If she wasn't pumping heroin in the streets I'd be rooting for her... oh, and poison really sucks! (poisoner monk build, anyone? looks like she was spamming poison needles with melee touch attacks flurry of blows! LOL!)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So I would say this is probably my least favorite of the Netflix series so far, with my rankings as follows:

DD 1
JJ
LC
DD 2
IF

My biggest general complaint is just the pacing. It feels like the show in general was trying to correct the frequent issue of a fast pacing beginning followed by a rapid slow down. So to do that they instead spread everything out more and more. which instead just made some stuff seem far too drawn out and delayed some important revelations into the late game for the show, allowing me to be aggravated or bored for far longer than was probably good.

I think the biggest blame is probably on the showrunner. This really needed a showrunner who was familiar with the tropes of martial arts movies. Into the Badlands did a solid job of this, so it's not like its impossible.

spoilery Thoughts:

Particular points of aggravation:

Gao being part of The Hand, and the general nonthreatening nature of the organization for most of the series. Yeah we get an explanation but only by the 10th episode. I really really missed the ninjas from DD :(

Harold Meachum spending most of the movie in a penthouse: It never made sense to me that The Hand would make that a requirement. It's certainly going to be far easier to puppet control the company if you can just keep him in charge

We never remotely see any attempt at giving Rand a costume. I mean JJ and LC get a pass...there recent iterations don't really have one. But come one...You could have given IF something other than a dark hoody!

Shadow Lodge

I liked it. The PTSD flashbacks were a little annoying binge watching it, so i'm not too put off by it.

I really liked the fight scene with coleen in the dojo. It was a different, minamalistic effort style thats a little different from what you usually see.

Overused the flipkick a bit. But it might be his signature move or something?

I hope the character finds their zen. The field is a little full of angry, brooding, revenge driven billionaires. Can't anyone enjoy being a superhero?


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Just finished #5.

Speculation:
If I wasn't already thinking it based on DD s2 finale, Defenders will be fighting the Hand (lead by a dead Greek Ninja).

Clair puts Matt and Danny together (along with Coleen?). Then she links them to Luke (and Misty). Then Clair and Luke recruit Jessica. And Frank crashes the party.

BigNorseWolf - I like that last thought. Reminds me of a review of The Phantom from years back. 90s Superhero movies were either written for 8yo (Batman and Robin) or dark and brooding (Blade). And here comes Kit Walker, a man with a mission to slam evil, and he enjoys his life. So of course the movie was critically panned and is largely forgotten.


GreenDragon1133 wrote:

Just finished #5.

Speculation:
If I wasn't already thinking it based on DD s2 finale, Defenders will be fighting the Hand (lead by a dead Greek Ninja).

Clair puts Matt and Danny together (along with Coleen?). Then she links them to Luke (and Misty). Then Clair and Luke recruit Jessica. And Frank crashes the party.

BigNorseWolf - I like that last thought. Reminds me of a review of The Phantom from years back. 90s Superhero movies were either written for 8yo (Batman and Robin) or dark and brooding (Blade). And here comes Kit Walker, a man with a mission to slam evil, and he enjoys his life. So of course the movie was critically panned and is largely forgotten.

that was just a bad movie man.


Watched all of it. It was nowhere near as bad as the critics said. Didn't care for the ending but that seems to be a theme with this weekend. glares at star wars rebels


Obviously my binge-fu is weak. :P

I'm now as far as episode 5 and still enjoying it. Probably the "worst" Netflix Marvel collaboration so far (except for DD2 S2, but not sure a S2 could count "the same"), but still miles ahead of Agents of Shield or CW's DC schlock. Reviewers went way overboard panning this one.

Sovereign Court

Three episodes in and I like it so far. I'm expecting it to pick up around ep 5-6 like the other series.

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