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Maniacs draw their power from strong emotions (called manias) rather than bloodlines, which they can access while in a state of agitation (called rave). The Maniac originated from my recent archetype project (which, like this alternate class, I continue to edit and improve, in case you are interested).
I'm mostly happy with mania abilities, though I'm open for any suggestions (I got stuck with Love and Regret).
I'm still having trouble with the basic feature of rave, which was created as a spellcaster's version of rage. In my first draft, rave granted a bonus to Charisma and caster level with the drawback of potentially dealing nonlethal damage to the sorcerer when casting a spell. I dismissed the idea because it was too unbalanced. However, in its current version, the universal effect of rave is rather lame, which may or may not be a problem (the sorcerer already gains nice stuff from manias while raving).
Finally, I'm uncertain whether I should create a bloodrager variant based on the maniac. I'm worried that the notion of an emo-rager might be ridiculous. ("I'm so happy in love, I could punch someone's face.")
Please let me know what you think.
I'm still in the process of going through the class (which is why it took me awhile to respond to this). My first thought is that this would be pretty thematic to turn into a psychic spellcaster since psychic mages require emotions to cast their spells.
Thanks for taking a look.
I tried to limit the number of referenced books and I think the concept should work within the normal magic system. That being said, nothing prevents players that use Occult Adventures from treating the maniac as a psychic caster. Thanks to the less than consistent use of descriptors in Pathfinder, shaken is not an emotion effect--no obstacle here. I guess I could add a small sidebar that clarifies how the rules would interact.
Alright, so I did a full write-up for this class.
I'd really appreciate some feedback--it doesn't need to be an in-depth-analysis.
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This is a really well developed concept. I haven't delved too deeply into each of the manias (there's a ton of information there), but I didn't notice anything too off-putting during my first read-through.
My first instinct for Rave (clearly a Rage variant ^_^) was to base it off of Wisdom (being that I see Wisdom as the mental counterpart to Constitution) to represent how long you can mentally withstand subsuming yourself in a single emotion, but I understand how that might make things feel a bit more MAD than you'd like.
I'll comb over the manias and get back to you with any notes I might have, but this is looking excellent already.
My first instinct for Rave (clearly a Rage variant ^_^) was to base it off of Wisdom (being that I see Wisdom as the mental counterpart to Constitution) to represent how long you can mentally withstand subsuming yourself in a single emotion, but I understand how that might make things feel a bit more MAD than you'd like.
That's an interesting suggestion. In my first draft, rave was modeled after rage, which didn't really work out. I like the idea of making the class more MAD.
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Okay, I gathered my thoughts on each of the manias. It's a bit long, but they're the things I noticed while looking them over.
I feel like Furious Aura should affect everyone in the area of effect, not just opponents. Maybe add a built-in Selective Channeling effect?
With Furious Aura, how long does it last? How many times per day can you use it? Am I to assume it just lasts for the duration of the rave?
BOREDOM
Repetitive Casting feels really powerful. It is a limited duration effect, so that might balance it out, but I feel like it needs some actual playtesting to determine its true power.
Enervating Boredom is kind of a beast of an ability. Fatigue and Exhaustion are really annoying statuses to be hitting up to 116 targets (and that's if we're only working in 2 dimensions. Unlikely, I know, but still). Maybe pull from some existing spells and limit it to a number of targets based on caster level, no two of which can be more than 30 feet apart.
Ennui should probably mention that the temporary hit points last for an hour. It's a part of the temporary hit point rules, but it always helps to be as specific as possible.
With Lethargic Aura, same questions as Furious Aura. Do they have to make a save for every action they attempt out of turn, or does one save cover it?
For the drawback, I'd actually reverse it and say that you can ONLY take 10 on skill checks. Maybe only take 8. When you're bored, you sure as hell don't want to put in any real effort into whatever you're doing.
Honestly, I love this mania. At first I laughed at being maniacally bored, but you pulled it off in a really great way. I just feel like it might be a bit too powerful.
COMPASSION
For Merciful Spells, do any of the maniac spells even deal damage to be made nonlethal? I really like the automatic communal spells, though.
Invigorating Surge seems a tad powerful, but given that you're ending your rave to do it, it should be fine. Just keep an eye on it.
For Aura of Compassion, you should apply the changes that were applied to the Summoner's Life Link ability.
Can I use life link when it's not my turn, I'm paralyzed, or I otherwise can't take actions?
Although the ability is listed as a free action, it's something a summoner should be able to do at any time the eidolon would take enough damage to send it back to its home plane, even if it's not his turn (as is normally the case when he's being attacked), he's helpless from Strength or Dexterity poison, he's under a hold person spell, and so on. In other words, it's not an action at all, and shouldn't be listed as such.
Update: In the Life Link description, paragraph 1, sentence 2, delete "as a free action"
CONFUSION
Same questions with Aphasic Aura apply as to the Auras above. How long does it last? How many times per day can you use it?
Please tell me that Psychic Backlash has a limit on the number of times per day you can use it.
COURAGE
Felling Spells has potential to just be weird. I mean, there's potential to cast Charm Person and trip them. Maybe restrict it to spells that already require an attack roll? And is it intentional to completely flip the standard size limitations of Trip?
Courageous Aura. Same standard questions, but also do the temporary hit points only last for that one round?
CURIOSITY
Silent Witness seems a bit much. At will is potentially 14400 times per day. MAybe do the cleric thing and make it 3 + Cha mod?
Same standard questions for Inquisitive Aura.
What's the limitation on X-Ray Vision? Constant? Can you turn it on and off?
The drawback should probably involve a Will save.
DESIRE
Obsession. What if the object of your desire moves outside the range of Dimension Door? Like, if they Interplanetary Teleport away. Does Obsession simply fail, or does it still pop you within 30 feet?
Dreamscape. Same standard aura questions.
That's a really serious drawback. I don't know what to do about it, but it seems extreme.
DISGUST
Repugnant Aura. Standard questions apply.
At first I was confused as to how Phobophobia was relevant. It makes sense, but it's not an intuitive kind of sense.
ENVY
Schadenfreude. Love the name, but the ability doesn't really mesh well with the envy theme. Triggering off of someone else's success would make more sense for the mania. Of course, then the name doesn't fit. ^_^
Envious Aura. You know the drill.
EUPHORIA
Does Hyperactivity last for the duration of your rave?
Euphoric Aura.
FEAR
I'd say that the quirk should allow you to enter a rave if shaken or frightened, but not panicked, and enter the next step when the rave ends. Collecting insanities would quickly get out of hand.
Born From Nightmares is maybe too good. When you can just use Intimidate to stagger people, or hell, Dazzling Display to stagger a whole room, I feel like that's more than a first level ability.
Aura of Fear.
Fearsome Carnage. What is meant by "If you succeed"? If you actually kill the target? Because a Coup de Grace is an automatic critical. Also, Terror Monger might play a little too well with this.
GRIEF
Army of Darkness, standard Aura questions. This is an amazing ability, though.
HATRED
Hateful Aura.
I'd expand the drawback to include physical attacks as well as spells. As written, you could shoot arrows or swing swords at anyone you want. Not that that's generally a good option for spellcasters, but I feel like it goes against the intent of the drawback.
This would be a great mania to name something Schadenfreude. ^_^
LONELINESS
Steal Voice. I assume this lasts until the rave ends?
Aura of Isolation.
For the drawback, you might want to mechanically reinforce the unwillingness to receive help from allies by forcing saving throws even against harmless spells, like the Superstition rage power.
LOVE
I feel like this mania overall is weakly tied to the theme, but the Cupid schtick is cute. That drawback is going to be really funny in certain situations.
PAIN
Bleeding Wounds is crazy. I mean, I understand that high level play isn't really indicative of anything, but 10 bleed damage is a lot if the thing you're fighting doesn't have ready access to curative magic, especially since you're spreading it in a 30 foot burst. Maybe start it at a 1d4 at 5th and then scale it up a die size every 5 levels? That way at 20th it's 1d10, but not a flat 10.
Painful Aura. Standard questions, but also I'm not sure the bleed damage is necessary here.
PRIDE
Prideful Aura.
Maybe attach a Will save to the drawback.
REGRET
Aura of Remorse
SURPRISE
Ceaseless Wonder. So, basically you've got a choice of three options off of a Rod of Wonder. Why would anybody spend more than a 1st level spell on this. MAybe make it to where you can add or subtract UP TO the level of the spell you burned. That might make things too predictable, though.
Confounding Aura. Standard questions. Also, everybody being flat-footed is kind of a disproportionate effect. Maybe everyone in the aura should be treated as if they're flanking?
Impossible Probabilities feels too similar to the 1st level ability of the Courage mania. Also, I get the unexpected trip thematically, but I feel like something else would be better here.
TRANQUILITY
Placid Aura.
Overall, though, this is shaping up to be one of my favorite casting classes.
Thank you so much for this very extensive feedback!
I'll have to go through those comments step by step, but regarding durations/limited use of abilities: The universal rule is that, unless it says otherwise, all effects end immediately once rave ends, including spells from the mania bonus spell list (it says so in the description of mania). I'm not sure if that is enough to balance things out in each and every case, but that is the general idea.
Regarding auras: I admit that these aren't as clearly defined as they could be. (I wish Pathfinder had a universal rule for the way aura's work.)
A rage mage is a really fun concept. Heck, I created a setting defining a "chi-like" power that uses emotions instead of life energy.
Rave says "Charisma" when I think you mean "Wisdom."
I would have liked to see a more interesting or solid use of rave than just empathic telepathy.
Rave says "Charisma" when I think you mean "Wisdom."
That was intentional (following VikingIrishman's suggestion):
Charisma represents mental potency (save DC for spells and class abilities) while Wisdom represents mental stamina (daily rounds of rave and bonus spells per day).The SADness of full casters is a common complaint about inter-class-inbalance, and one that I actually find well-founded. The idea of a MAD caster is not entirely new (if I remember correctly, the 3.5 favored soul worked similarly). At higher levels, the maniac is more versatile than the regular sorcerer, so making it more MAD makes sense to balance things out in the long run.
It also opens up some interesting options for different character builds. The maniac-NPC that I plan to introduce in my current campaign is a somewhat atypical dwarf whose emotional outbursts have estranged her from her more stoic kin. The racial penalty to CHA hurts, but is somewhat off-set by the WIS-bonus. Her abilities aren't as hard to resist, but she'll be able to keep it up longer.
I would have liked to see a more interesting or solid use of rave than just empathic telepathy.
The base effect of rave is currently my biggest concern. I experimented with numerical bonuses (modeled after rage), but a boost to save DC and caster level (respectively CL-dependent effects or caster level checks) is a lot more powerful than the bonuses granted by rage. The wilder class tries to pull it off by introducing the risk of backlash. I tried something similar in my first draft, but I've come to the realization that it creates more problems than it solves.
Another option that I considered was a weak offensive power (comparable to 1st level arcane school/bloodline powers). Maybe I could expand empathic telepathy to cause a sensory overload, dealing a small amount of nonlethal damage plus a rider effect (based on the chosen mania)? I would have to turn a rounds-per-day ability into a uses-per-day ability, which runs a bit counter to what rave represents (putting oneself in an altered state of mind). Not exactly elegant, but neither unprecedented (the soundstriker archetype uses bardic performance rounds as a resource for per-use-powers).
I meant this line:
"Temporary increases to Charisma, such as those gained from spells like owl’s wisdom, do not increase the total number of rounds that a maniac can use her rave per day."
Shouldn't that be Wisdom, not Charisma?
Maybe they gain some kind of blasting attack while raving? Maybe ones they can full-attack with at an increased BAB?
I finally got around to update this class and clear up some balance issues. I still need a capstone power, but other than that, I think it works fine.
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Just had a quick read through. Looks great and a really cool concept here.
I had this mental image of the Maniac cycling through emotional extremes. Maybe the capstone could be to choose each round of Rave which Mania you will use for this round. Or even benefit from 2 Manias at once
BTW : why the alignment restriction ? I do not see what it adds here
I'm glad you like it!
Just had a quick read through. Looks great and a really cool concept here.
I had this mental image of the Maniac cycling through emotional extremes. Maybe the capstone could be to choose each round of Rave which Mania you will use for this round. Or even benefit from 2 Manias at once
I had thought of that too, but decided against it because it would somewhat invalidate the Love and Surprise manias' ability to immediately start a new rave. Benefitting from two manias at once seems interesting, but could lead to some strange combinations (I'm bored, but also excited). Maybe I could attribute a color on the emotional aura spectrum (from Occult Adventures) to each mania and limit the combinations to certain color schemes?
BTW : why the alignment restriction ? I do not see what it adds here
Alignment is probably my least favorite part of the game, so I'm not going to defend this decision to the bone, but I think it makes sense for various reasons:
- Rave was designed as a magical counterpart to the barbarian's rage. Giving in to rage seems to be the reason why barbarians can't be lawful (ex-barbarians who become lawful lose the ability to rage). Now, one could certainly argue that channeling ones emotions in a controlled way is something that a lawful character would do, and I could totally picture a barbarbian in a cold and calculating state of mind while raging, but the CRB forbids that option.
- When I started working on this project, I tried hard not to make any connections to modern concepts of mental illness and insanity. I used the terms 'mania' and 'maniac' to refer to premodern concepts. In ancient societies, people who were overcome with strong affections were sometimes seen as being touched by the divine or other supernatural forces. Think dionysean cults (maenad was another candidat for the class's name, but I felt it was too narrow to cover the whole emotional spectrum and it has a certain gender bias that I would rather avoid). Even if they weren't excluded from society, they still defied social norms and values and had to be treated with care. Most lawful societies demand a certain degree of affective control in their members. The iconic maniac in my current campaign is a dwarven stonesinger who was banished from her clan because her emotional outbreaks were seen as a threat to the traditional dwarven values.
So I think it makes sense for them to be nonlawful. Which reminds me that I forgot to add what happens when they become lawful. I'll have to include that in my next update.
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I'm glad you like it!
I had thought of that too, but decided against it because it would somewhat invalidate the Love and Surprise manias' ability to immediately start a new rave. Benefitting from two manias at once seems interesting, but could lead to some strange combinations (I'm bored, but also excited). Maybe I could attribute a color on the emotional aura spectrum (from Occult Adventures) to each mania and limit the combinations to certain color schemes?Just had a quick read through. Looks great and a really cool concept here.
I had this mental image of the Maniac cycling through emotional extremes. Maybe the capstone could be to choose each round of Rave which Mania you will use for this round. Or even benefit from 2 Manias at once
I confess I have not read the class in detail (especially the prolific Mania part).
I envision the capstone ("Fractured mind" ?) to have the Maniac alternating so quickly between these states of mind that sustain the Manias that, even within only one round, he can enjoy the benefits of both, even if those seem incompatible.
I do not think that you need to state which Mania should not combine with which, but a more general caveat that, if the combination ends up with impossible results, people should just consider that these specific abilities cancel each other out.
This kind of generic language also helps with unforeseen corner cases and defines the rules for future Manias that we cannot know yet ;-)
Once again, I cannot give precise examples because I have not yet read through the Manias. Will do as soon as I get some free time
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This is probably the last update, though I might make additional changes based on my playtesting experiences.
-added short descriptions for each mania.
-reduced the number of manias gained over the course of 20 levels from 7 to 5. That is still enough to offer versatility without creating option paralysis.
-expanded emotive blast.
-added favored class bonuses.
What I would still like to add are emotional auras for each mania, mostly for flavor reasons. I would propose the following:
1 Anger---------------Bright Red
2 Boredom-------------Gray Lines
3 Compassion----------Emerald Green
4 Confusion-----------Kaleidoscope
5 Courage-------------Light Blue
6 Curiosity-----------Emerald Green
7 Desire--------------Blood Red
8 Disgust-------------Livid Grey
9 Envy----------------Oily Green or Rust
10 Fear----------------Livid Grey
11 Grief---------------Gray Lines
12 Hatred--------------Black Clouds
13 Joy-----------------Blood Red
14 Loneliness----------Gray Lines
15 Love----------------Purple
16 Pain----------------Blood Red
17 Pride---------------Orange
18 Regret--------------Livid Grey
19 Surprise------------Kaleidoscope
20 Tranquility---------Gold
Objections?
Good to see some free maniacal stuff out there. ;)
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I reworked the emotive blast effects after figuring out that reusing the drawback mechanic didn't work out for all manias (d'oh!).
I also added a few class-specific magic items whose flavor is inspired by dionysian cults (which were a main inspiration for this class).
At the moment, I'm wondering how this class compares to the standard sorcerer and whether I've gone overboard with the maniac. It's a bit tricky, because I also tried to correct some perceived flaws in the sorcerer class (bonus spells gained too late, bloodline feats that don't synergize well with spell casters, lack of support for metamagic). So it can be seen as an attempt to unchain the sorcerer class, but I still want it to be balanced with other full casters. What do you think?
It looks like you've come a long way on this one. :)
EMOTIVE BLAST
I like it, but I feel that the wording needs some work as there is some redundancy. Also, I think the "while raving" bit can be done away with. I don't know if the following is better or not, but its how I would do it.
Emotive Blast (Su): A maniac can overwhelm an opponent's mind with a blast of emotional energy. As a standard action, a maniac can sacrifice one of her unused spell slots to make a ranged touch attack against a target within 30 ft. This attack deals 1d6 points of nonlethal damage per level of the spell slot sacraficed. If she is raving, it deals additional nonlethal damage equal to her Charisma bonus. A mindless creature is immune to this damage. A creature that takes damage from an emeotive blast must succeed on a Will save (DC = 10 + the level of the spell slot sacraficed + the maniac's Charisma modifier) or be treated as though under the effect of a spell with the [emotion] descriptor. The creature can make an another saving throws to end this effect once per round as a standard. An emotive blast has the color of the maniac’s emotion aura.
MANIAS
Are the quirks always active, or just while raving? I think the consequence of the fear mania's quirk is excessive. At low level, ability score drain cannot be overcome. You could end up with a character who is mentally crippled by the time you have access to the restoration spell. You could change it to ability damage, but that becomes easy to overcome with the lesser restoration spell. I suggest an ability penalty that gradually lessens each hour.
I admit that the ability could be more concise. The damage line is clumsy--I wrote it that way to make a distinction between base damage and extra damage (which is important for critical hits), but I'm not sure if that is really necessary. I think that the rider effects are too strong for a 1st level ability--emotive blast shouldn't be better than the spell whose slot is sacrificed to use emotive blast. I really like the suggestion to make emotive blast always available (but more effective during rave).
My playtest experience for the first 5 levels indicates that the maniac is more versatile than the sorcerer without any significant drawbacks. Emotive blast allowed the maniac to deal damage consistently in situations where the martials were having trouble due to damage reduction, debuffs, and disadvantageous terrain. So I'm hesitant to make the ability even stronger.
The quirks are only active during rave. Replacing the drain with a penalty sounds reasonable (I guess a ring of inner fortitude would help to mitigate the penalties, affirming my opinion that this item is not well thought-out).
My idea for the "rider effect" had to do with the psychic classes that are unable cast their spells while under the effect of an emotion effect. It seems to me that a blast of untamed emotion should have that effect on then, even if it happens differently from the way I described. Plenty of spells can have the same effect on them. Maybe if the duration was 1 round? Big picture though, it would have very little game impact outside of psychic casters.
Ah, that makes sense (I misunderstood what you meant the first time). Emotive blast gains a rider effect with a 1-round duration and the [emotion] descriptor at 11th level. (I thought you wanted to push that ability to 1st level, which seemed overpowered.) Maybe the basic version simply incurs a penalty to Concentration checks?
I didn't see that you already had it at 11th, but I was indeed suggesting 1st level. Or at least a version of it.
Sounds like a nice compromise. It would requires them to make a concentration check, based on the sacrificed spell level and Cha mod? Honestly it would very rarely come up in a game.
Sorry for the necromancy. I noticed that the google Doc now requires permission to access. I had a player who was interested in using this class in one of my upcoming campaigns. Could I get permission for it?
I am also interested.
I have a homebrew rule that allows casters to tap their hp after they have expended their spell slots. The damage is non lethal = to the spell level + metamagic adjustment. I think that using this in conjunction with your mania will produce interesting results and RP. I'll let you know after I play with it a bit. Good job though, lots of flavor.
This project ist currently being revised and edited for future publication. I'll let you all know once it is available. Thank you for your patience!