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I love Monks and I love the Unchained Monk. It's honestly an amazing upgrade with a lot of stuff going for it.
But it sadly suffers from a dearth of viable builds.
While little archetypes is an issue and one that will slowly be fixed I'm sure, one of the big issues for build diversity for the UnMonk is the over-reliance on unarmed strikes.
Namely, Style Strikes and Ki Pool mandate unarmed strike use, and the class does not have the extra gold to spend on a Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes to maintain their unarmed strikes competitive.
When Ascetic Style came out, I was excited because it allowed other types of Monks to appear. Emphasis on weapons created interesting possibilities with reach and such.
But PFS banned it, with reason. It's not appropriately worded.
I do hope you can add a Clarification to restrain and control the feat though. Shouldn't be too hard, just change most of the text of the first feat to look like Feral Combat Training with the necessary changes, and make a final call on whether you want it to apply to Monk Weapons or Weapons from the Monk Fighter Weapon Group.
Thanks <3
(Also, recost that damn Quick Runner's Shirt)
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I love Monks and I love the Unchained Monk. It's honestly an amazing upgrade with a lot of stuff going for it.
But it sadly suffers from a dearth of viable builds.
While little archetypes is an issue and one that will slowly be fixed I'm sure, one of the big issues for build diversity for the UnMonk is the over-reliance on unarmed strikes.
Namely, Style Strikes and Ki Pool mandate unarmed strike use, and the class does not have the extra gold to spend on a Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes to maintain their unarmed strikes competitive.
When Ascetic Style came out, I was excited because it allowed other types of Monks to appear. Emphasis on weapons created interesting possibilities with reach and such.
But PFS banned it, with reason. It's not appropriately worded.
I do hope you can add a Clarification to restrain and control the feat though. Shouldn't be too hard, just change most of the text of the first feat to look like Feral Combat Training with the necessary changes, and make a final call on whether you want it to apply to Monk Weapons or Weapons from the Monk Fighter Weapon Group.
Thanks <3
(Also, recost that damn Quick Runner's Shirt)
You may want to post this on the product pages for the respective books that feat and item come from. PFS generally only makes changes if the item/feat would interact oddly with campaign-specific rules.
Feats which are open to interpretation or prone to massive variation are generally banned from PFS, as are items which are pretty clearly underpriced for what they do. The idea is to have a minimum number of instances of "this works differently in PFS than it does in normal games." Fixing the wording and/or price is the province of the developers in charge of that particular book.
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But it's a companion book, so never going to be actually changed.
What Secret Wizard is asking is if we use the wording that the creator of the feat meant to use, which removes the variance of the feat and lowers the power to what it was meant to do. They've already done this for some things and put it into that clarification document. SW is asking for this to go into that. And he's created this thread as the thread to propose that change.
An I agree with him. It seems like a super fun feat, and when used as the intended wording would have had it makes it power appropriate and gives reason to taking the entire chain.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Shouldn't be too hard, just change most of the text of the first feat to look like Feral Combat Training with the necessary changes, and make a final call on whether you want it to apply to Monk Weapons or Weapons from the Monk Fighter Weapon Group.Thanks <3
(Also, recost that damn Quick Runner's Shirt)
Those two bolded phrases do not belong in the same sentence.
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I love Monks and I love the Unchained Monk. It's honestly an amazing upgrade with a lot of stuff going for it.
But it sadly suffers from a dearth of viable builds.
While little archetypes is an issue and one that will slowly be fixed I'm sure, one of the big issues for build diversity for the UnMonk is the over-reliance on unarmed strikes.
Namely, Style Strikes and Ki Pool mandate unarmed strike use, and the class does not have the extra gold to spend on a Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes to maintain their unarmed strikes competitive.
When Ascetic Style came out, I was excited because it allowed other types of Monks to appear. Emphasis on weapons created interesting possibilities with reach and such.
But PFS banned it, with reason. It's not appropriately worded.
I do hope you can add a Clarification to restrain and control the feat though. Shouldn't be too hard, just change most of the text of the first feat to look like Feral Combat Training with the necessary changes, and make a final call on whether you want it to apply to Monk Weapons or Weapons from the Monk Fighter Weapon Group.
Thanks <3
(Also, recost that damn Quick Runner's Shirt)
You may want to post this on the product pages for the respective books that feat and item come from. PFS generally only makes changes if the item/feat would interact oddly with campaign-specific rules.
Feats which are open to interpretation or prone to massive variation are generally banned from PFS, as are items which are pretty clearly underpriced for what they do. The idea is to have a minimum number of instances of "this works differently in PFS than it does in normal games." Fixing the wording and/or price is the province of the developers in charge of that particular book.
While that was historically true, the PFS Clarifications Document sets precedence for the PFS campaign leadership to adjust rules for use in PFS.
This is a fantastic opportunity to allow a feat that would otherwise be banned, and with good cause.
What's best is that Alexander, the feat's designer - has made himself explicit on how the feat should work.
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Please do not unban this feat. There are plenty of viable weapon monk builds, and this feat is grossly overpowered in the hands of an unchained monk (only overpowered for a chained monk). Unarmed strikes have been given lots of powerful tools to help them keep up with manufactured weapons. The last thing monks need is for weapons to suddenly gain access to all of these abilities making the unarmed monk build even less desirable.
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Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover
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Tools like the brawling enchantment which monks actually cannot use?
Or style feats which can only be used one at a time?
It´s a very sad thing that player companions never see errata or official clarifications. That messes up a lot of content with the possibility to be really good.
The designer of the feat himself declared that there is actually one wrong word. IT should be "feats that augment IUS" instead of "effects that augment IUS", what changes the whole thing a lot.
Comparing monks to barbarians and other benchmark stuff, i really don´t see them as being overpowered, with none of the two versions of ascetic style.
Grappling monks are a different topic though.
Please do not unban this feat. There are plenty of viable weapon monk builds, and this feat is grossly overpowered in the hands of an unchained monk (only overpowered for a chained monk). Unarmed strikes have been given lots of powerful tools to help them keep up with manufactured weapons. The last thing monks need is for weapons to suddenly gain access to all of these abilities making the unarmed monk build even less desirable.
Have you seen the clarifications posted by Alexander Algunas?
If a Monk took all of the Ascetic Style featline, compared to a Dragon Style featline Monk, the output difference would be as follows:
Dragon Monk
- 2x STR on first attack, 1.5x STR on the rest
- Full unarmed damage dice
- 19-20/2x crit
- Other bonuses (charge stuff, bonus to saves, shaken on crit/Stunning Fist use)
Ascetic Monk
- 1.5x STR on first attack
- Unarmed damage dice -4 or weapon dice. Worst case scenario it's 1d10 base, meaning it has an advantage on dice during early game only.
- 17-20/2x crit with a close quarters weapon, or 19-20/2x crit with a reach one.
- Other very minor bonuses (reach at the cost of worse crit, perhaps a weapon quality)
If there's something that would make UnMonks OP here let me know because I'm missing it. If it's "an Ascetic Style Monk could use a 1d10 weapon at 1st level to flurry", that's already a thing.
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The designer of the feat himself declared that there is actually one wrong word. IT should be "feats that augment IUS" instead of "effects that augment IUS", what changes the whole thing a lot.
If they do allow that in the clarification document, I'd also want them to include a definition of what specifically they mean by "augment unarmed strike"--there are a few contentious threads on this already.
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Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover
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The designer of the feat himself declared that there is actually one wrong word. IT should be "feats that augment IUS" instead of "effects that augment IUS", what changes the whole thing a lot.If they do allow that in the clarification document, I'd also want them to include a definition of what specifically they mean by "augment unarmed strike"--there are a few contentious threads on this already.
Totally with you there. Rules and descriptions have become so complicated and so far away from the original streamlining concept, it´s really necessary.
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The designer of the feat himself declared that there is actually one wrong word. IT should be "feats that augment IUS" instead of "effects that augment IUS", what changes the whole thing a lot.If they do allow that in the clarification document, I'd also want them to include a definition of what specifically they mean by "augment unarmed strike"--there are a few contentious threads on this already.
not really, if it's feats that augments it'd need to specifically mention US, or be needing to select US as the weapon it's applying to, aka weapon focus. Everything else wouldn't be a feat directly augmenting US.
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No.
The entire point of giving unarmed only options is that unarmed combat is a bad choice that needs better options to make up for it, especially in PFS where you can't swing a stick without hitting something that has DR slash something. Anything that brings unarmed options up to par with armed options is going to overpower armed options and negate the point of trying to have armed options in the first place.
No.
The entire point of giving unarmed only options is that unarmed combat is a bad choice that needs better options to make up for it, especially in PFS where you can't swing a stick without hitting something that has DR slash something. Anything that brings unarmed options up to par with armed options is going to overpower armed options and negate the point of trying to have armed options in the first place.
Unless you gate it with Style Feats, in which case only Weapon Style Mastery can allow you to combine them, and even a Fighter would be hard-pressed for feats to do that.