Rolling up a Paladin for a PFS adventure through the Emerald Spire, and I have a question regarding the selection of a diety. In my initial read through of the Paladin class I do not show where it states that they must choose one. Granted, I may have missed a sentence as I am mostly skimming atm.
RP-wise he wants to follow a diety and I am wondering if he gains any mechanical advantage. Proficiency with favored weapon? (admittedly he probably already has with Martial weap). Access to diety specific Feats? I understand he would not gain a domain or domain spells.
It sounds like the selection of a diety is purely "flavor."
Am I missing something?
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Clerics, inquisitors, paladins, cavaliers of the order of the star, and samurai of the order of the star must choose a deity as all classes in Golarion that receive spells and abilities from a specific divine source receive their powers from a deity.
It's a campaign rule in PFS. As quoted, in the Golarion setting, all divine powers stem from a diety (although oracles don't always know which).
Check out Inner Sea Gods for some interesting deity-specific paladin codes. For the base class, it is mostly flavor. But the deity you choose does give you access to certain feats, traits, and equipment.
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paladin's don't gain proficiency.
Your feats and spells gain stuff if you have the correct book.
You're limited to LG, NG and LN dieties.
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By default Paladins gain few if any benefits from following any specific deity, though their Paladin Code may change, and some deities make additional spells available on their list and may allow specific Feats (see Inner Sea Gods for details). They don't get Weapon Proficiencies or anything, though.
And, for the record, Paladins explicitly don't need a deity in Golarion in general (though most do have one), that rule is specific to PFS.
If you want to gain mechanical benefit from your paladin's worship of their god of choice, look to the Sacred Servant archetype.
This is a PFS Paladin and looking to be some sort of undead cleanser. First hand, it looks like Pharasma may be a decent choice and there is even a trait he can take to gain additional damage vs undead.
Any other/better options? I do own Inner Sea Gods so could easily take material from there, and will look over that book tonight. Thanks for the tip on LG, LN, & NG as my choices.
Serenrae is a pretty obvious anti-undead paladin deity. But any deity with good in there domain is pretty opposed to undead.
Yes, in general the good deities of Golarion aren´t keen on undeath, so fighting the restless dead works fine with paladins of pretty much any creed.
That said, if paladins do not have to get their powers from a deity it might be okay for a paladin to venerate Pharasma, at least as a part of an overall pantheon and as a patron of his or her mission. Pantheism makes perfect sense for Golarion, where different deities have distinct areas for which they are responsible. Why would a villager not, for example, give thanks to Erastil for a successful hunt, pray to Shelyn for happiness in marriage and sacrifice to Pharasma for a child?
Yes, in general the good deities of Golarion aren´t keen on undeath, so fighting the restless dead works fine with paladins of pretty much any creed.
That said, if paladins do not have to get their powers from a deity it might be okay for a paladin to venerate Pharasma, at least as a part of an overall pantheon and as a patron of his or her mission. Pantheism makes perfect sense for Golarion, where different deities have distinct areas for which they are responsible. Why would a villager not, for example, give thanks to Erastil for a successful hunt, pray to Shelyn for happiness in marriage and sacrifice to Pharasma for a child?
I believe most ppl in Golarion do venerate different gods for various reasons. But this character is a paladin, a holy warrior in the service of whichever god the player picks.
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I believe most ppl in Golarion do venerate different gods for various reasons. But this character is a paladin, a holy warrior in the service of whichever god the player picks.
Paladins are more like Druids than Clerics in terms of what they're powered by. They're powered by their own righteousness, not a God. Many have Gods (more than Druids), but you could easily have a Paladin who worshiped like that.
Though not in PFS, which has its own more specific rules.
I believe most ppl in Golarion do venerate different gods for various reasons. But this character is a paladin, a holy warrior in the service of whichever god the player picks.Paladins are more like Druids than Clerics in terms of what they're powered by. They're powered by their own righteousness, not a God. Many have Gods (more than Druids), but you could easily have a Paladin who worshiped like that.
Though not in PFS, which has its own more specific rules.
The paladin in question in the OP is for PFS which requires a god AFAIK.
So i had a recent disagreement with a gm in a home game does a empyrial lord count as the deity for a paladin?
In a home game an Empyreal Lord counts as a deity as long as the GM agrees. See rule Zero.
I believe most ppl in Golarion do venerate different gods for various reasons. But this character is a paladin, a holy warrior in the service of whichever god the player picks.Paladins are more like Druids than Clerics in terms of what they're powered by. They're powered by their own righteousness, not a God. Many have Gods (more than Druids), but you could easily have a Paladin who worshiped like that.
Though not in PFS, which has its own more specific rules.
To be fair, that was thing in 3.5, where in the Paladin class description there was a specific section that says, "A paladin is powered by their own faith and righteousness and need not select a deity".
The problem is that Pathfinder, right in the initial class description, hints that paladins serve deities: "Knights, crusaders, and lawbringers, paladins seek not just to spread divine justice but to embody the teachings of the virtuous deities they serve." And of course the bit in the Holy Champion class feature mentioning the paladin being "a conduit for the power of her god". It sounds like they wanted paladin to be the militant defender of the faith and then that kinda washed out, and then we got warpriest a couple years ago.
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Best LG is Lymnieris – Empyreal Lord of prostitution and virginity. You can/have to be horny paladin. Best part is the obedience
Lie on a hard, flat surface wearing nothing but a cowl. Concentrate on the feeling of the surface and the air while achieving sexual release without touching yourself.
If the paladin picks a god, it has to be a LG, NG, or LN god.
HOWEVER
Given that clerics, inquisitors, and other divine classes have been given the loophole of worshipping an ideal by the game's rules, I would argue the default assumption of the paladin if you examine its CRB entry is that the paladin is empowered by the ideals of Law and Good and therefore does not need to pick a god unless the player wants to.
OP is explicitly asking about PFS wherein Paladins, Clerics, and Inquisitors explicitly must select a god to worship.
Your home game obviously isn't bound by such restrictions.
Back to the OP:
A paladin does not get any technical advantages from his deity, that is the cleric shtick. It is more a theme thing for the LG tanks, who will be the only thing left after the suns go out...
Still, many DMs use deity-inspired stuff for their paladins, like giving a paladin of Sarenrae access to the spell Touch of Sarenrae, or modify detect evil to also detect that deity's foes, etc..
While outside PFS paladins may go without deities or even worship quite literally any deity (I think a paladin of sifkesh is fun, and one time I made an order that was tricked into revering folca and working for a cult devoted to them), within PFS I believe there is a specific list of deites that a paladin may serve. I could be mistaken though.
Paladins have never been allowed to worship any deity, especially evil ones, I honestly don't know where people are getting that from.
The exception proves the rule.
Because paladins are never stated (outside PFS) to have requirements when it comes to worshiping deities, they share the same restrictions as any other character. A CG rogue could offer prayers to Asmodeus. It isn't likely they'd get anything from it, and it is more likely than not that they are mistaken on the nature of their patron in some form, but they could still do it. Now, paladins would certainly have difficulty in following a malevolent deity, but they could practice without knowingly associating with evil members of the faith. It is just unlikely it would be a lasting arrangement.
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A Paladin's code expressly forbids it.
... Paladins cannot worship Evil Deities.
Antipaladins can go right ahead :3
I just want to point out this trait: Pact Servant
Paladins have never been allowed to worship any deity, especially evil ones, I honestly don't know where people are getting that from.
Clerics, inquisitors, paladins, cavaliers of the order of the star, and samurai of the order of the star must choose a deity as all classes in Golarion that receive spells and abilities from a specific divine source receive their powers from a deity.
Knights, crusaders, and law-bringers, paladins seek not just to spread divine justice but to embody the teachings of the virtuous deities they serve.
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I just want to point out this trait: Pact Servant... Paladins cannot worship Evil Deities.
Antipaladins can go right ahead :3
That specific trait has been EXPLICITLY stated by its writer (Crystal Frasier) and by James Jacobs and Wes Schneider to NOT allow Paladins to worship Asmodues. Repeatedly.
That specific trait has been EXPLICITLY stated by its writer (Crystal Frasier) and by James Jacobs and Wes Schneider to NOT allow Paladins to worship Asmodues. Repeatedly.I just want to point out this trait: Pact Servant... Paladins cannot worship Evil Deities.
Antipaladins can go right ahead :3
Oh, absolutely, but it's still funny to me that they haven't actually fixed it with a FAQ or an Errata and thus their repeated, explicit statements aren't binding rules. It's also pretty ridiculous to me that they explicitly created a feat to allow LG clerics to worship Asmodeus.
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Oh, absolutely, but it's still funny to me that they haven't actually fixed it with a FAQ or an Errata and thus their repeated, explicit statements aren't binding rules. It's also pretty ridiculous to me that they explicitly created a feat to allow LG clerics to worship Asmodeus.That specific trait has been EXPLICITLY stated by its writer (Crystal Frasier) and by James Jacobs and Wes Schneider to NOT allow Paladins to worship Asmodues. Repeatedly.I just want to point out this trait: Pact Servant... Paladins cannot worship Evil Deities.
Antipaladins can go right ahead :3
They don't need to cause, as I've stated, the creator of itself herself has gone on record and stated that it doesn't work like that. As good as FaQued. The "Clerics, Inquisitors, and other divine Spellcasters" was only meant to apply to everything that isn't a Paladin. Hell, I forget Paladin's even get spells. Not to mention the archetypes that get rid of them.
Paladins have never been allowed to worship any deity, especially evil ones, I honestly don't know where people are getting that from.Clerics, inquisitors, paladins, cavaliers of the order of the star, and samurai of the order of the star must choose a deity as all classes in Golarion that receive spells and abilities from a specific divine source receive their powers from a deity.Knights, crusaders, and law-bringers, paladins seek not just to spread divine justice but to embody the teachings of the virtuous deities they serve.
I should have said "any deity they want to"
I can see where you thought I was saying otherwise. My bad, sorry!
Paladins have never been allowed to worship any deity, especially evil ones, I honestly don't know where people are getting that from.Clerics, inquisitors, paladins, cavaliers of the order of the star, and samurai of the order of the star must choose a deity as all classes in Golarion that receive spells and abilities from a specific divine source receive their powers from a deity.Knights, crusaders, and law-bringers, paladins seek not just to spread divine justice but to embody the teachings of the virtuous deities they serve.I should have said "any deity they want to"
I can see where you thought I was saying otherwise. My bad, sorry!
Oh, that makes SO much more sense!
I blame my phone. :-)
They don't need to cause, as I've stated, the creator of itself herself has gone on record and stated that it doesn't work like that. As good as FaQued. The "Clerics, Inquisitors, and other divine Spellcasters" was only meant to apply to everything that isn't a Paladin. Hell, I forget Paladin's even get spells. Not to mention the archetypes that get rid of them.Oh, absolutely, but it's still funny to me that they haven't actually fixed it with a FAQ or an Errata and thus their repeated, explicit statements aren't binding rules. It's also pretty ridiculous to me that they explicitly created a feat to allow LG clerics to worship Asmodeus.That specific trait has been EXPLICITLY stated by its writer (Crystal Frasier) and by James Jacobs and Wes Schneider to NOT allow Paladins to worship Asmodues. Repeatedly.I just want to point out this trait: Pact Servant... Paladins cannot worship Evil Deities.
Antipaladins can go right ahead :3
Except that you're missing this: Messageboard posts on a subjects made by the design and development team are not "official rulings" on the games. Clarifications in FAQ posts and errata are official rulings.
So, yes, it does explicitly need one. Also, Paladin spellcasting is one of the things that make the class so amazing. Lesser Restoration as a 1st level spell? Litany of Righteousness? Heck, even thematic stuff like Light Lance are awesome.
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They don't need to cause, as I've stated, the creator of itself herself has gone on record and stated that it doesn't work like that. As good as FaQued. The "Clerics, Inquisitors, and other divine Spellcasters" was only meant to apply to everything that isn't a Paladin. Hell, I forget Paladin's even get spells. Not to mention the archetypes that get rid of them.Oh, absolutely, but it's still funny to me that they haven't actually fixed it with a FAQ or an Errata and thus their repeated, explicit statements aren't binding rules. It's also pretty ridiculous to me that they explicitly created a feat to allow LG clerics to worship Asmodeus.That specific trait has been EXPLICITLY stated by its writer (Crystal Frasier) and by James Jacobs and Wes Schneider to NOT allow Paladins to worship Asmodues. Repeatedly.I just want to point out this trait: Pact Servant... Paladins cannot worship Evil Deities.
Antipaladins can go right ahead :3
Except that you're missing this: Messageboard posts on a subjects made by the design and development team are not "official rulings" on the games. Clarifications in FAQ posts and errata are official rulings.
So, yes, it does explicitly need one. Also, Paladin spellcasting is one of the things that make the class so amazing. Lesser Restoration as a 1st level spell? Litany of Righteousness? Heck, even thematic stuff like Light Lance are awesome.
This isn't an off the cuff remark by a single person, but THREE Paizo staff stating across multiple threads that. The. Trait. Does. NOT. Do that.
Even more being from the Campaign Line and will therefore never be officially Errated, but then it doesn't need to be since you have 3 highly respected people at Paizo breaking their own rule to specifically come out and state that the pact servant trait does not allow Paladins to worship Asmodeus.
The concept is deader than the luck bonus from a Jingasa.
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I mean, I'd allow the trait to work just fine. Be a paladin, take the trait, select Asmodeus as your deity (all perfectly fine and RAW), immediately lose all your paladin powers for violating your oath, now you need two atonements: one to switch to another deity, then another to regain your powers.
Nice trait, brah. Good choice.
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lol
Actually looking over it you couldn't even take the trait at all until 4th when a Paladin actually becomes a Divine Spellcaster.
So actually it's: Be a paladin, hit 5th level, take the Extra Traits Feat, take the trait, select Asmodeus as your deity (all perfectly fine and RAW), immediately lose all your paladin powers for violating your oath, now you need two atonements: one to switch to another deity, then another to regain your powers.
lol
Actually looking over it you couldn't even take the trait at all until 4th when a Paladin actually becomes a Divine Spellcaster.
So actually it's: Be a paladin, hit 5th level, take the Extra Traits Feat, take the trait, select Asmodeus as your deity (all perfectly fine and RAW), immediately lose all your paladin powers for violating your oath, now you need two atonements: one to switch to another deity, then another to regain your powers.
Not entirely sure if it helps paladins, but inquisitors have the heretic archetype, which means you could reinterpret Asmodeus. Maybe a Paladin could join a heretical religion... Asmodeus might slightly influence the Paladin, but most will agree good and law are more impoetant for the paladin. Just some flavor ideas.
P.S. I don't want to start a forum holy wars here, just saying religions could be reinterpreted.
lol
Actually looking over it you couldn't even take the trait at all until 4th when a Paladin actually becomes a Divine Spellcaster.
So actually it's: Be a paladin, hit 5th level, take the Extra Traits Feat, take the trait, select Asmodeus as your deity (all perfectly fine and RAW), immediately lose all your paladin powers for violating your oath, now you need two atonements: one to switch to another deity, then another to regain your powers.
Not entirely sure if it helps paladins, but inquisitors have the heretic archetype, which means you could reinterpret Asmodeus. Maybe a Paladin could join a heretical religion... Asmodeus might slightly influence the Paladin, but most will agree good and law are more impoetant for the paladin. Just some flavor ideas.
P.S. I don't want to start a forum holy wars here, just saying religions could be reinterpreted.
You make a fair point, there are always heretical groups (and even personal heresies). Just because someone offers their prayers to a certain entity, doesn't mean they have everything right about said entity or associate with the religion's more orthodox followers.
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An Inquisitor does not make a Paladin, and vice versa. :-)
lol
Actually looking over it you couldn't even take the trait at all until 4th when a Paladin actually becomes a Divine Spellcaster.
So actually it's: Be a paladin, hit 5th level, take the Extra Traits Feat, take the trait, select Asmodeus as your deity (all perfectly fine and RAW), immediately lose all your paladin powers for violating your oath, now you need two atonements: one to switch to another deity, then another to regain your powers.
Which is why I don't see the excitement of Lesser Restoration as a 1st level spell. You still don't get it till 4th level... same as Oracles. Clerics get it at 3rd level...
Unless your making a wand or something, it balances out quite the same.
I see a nice synergy there :)