Are there limitations for what a Wizard can choose for their bonded weapon?


Rules Questions


So as it's written Wizards get a free MW weapon of their choice, the only restriction being that it is not made out of any special materials. One of my players has picked a revolver, which would normally cost them 4,300 gp. Every rule I've managed to dig up says nothing is wrong with this, but it won't leave my mind as being ridiculous. Is there some limitations? Or is it actually just this silly? This is for level 1 play btw, at higher levels I wouldn't care but level 1 with a weapon that expensive doesn't feel right.


Does your campaign have revolvers at all, its easy enough to say primitive firearms only.


Ryan Freire wrote:
Does your campaign have revolvers at all, its easy enough to say primitive firearms only.

Yes, I do like the advanced firearms in general, It just feels weird that the rules would allow this. God forbid you allowed the advanced technology and the wizard decided to start with a Death Ray (any GM with half a brain slaps them and says no, but the rules as I've seen them don't seem to care)

Liberty's Edge

You are the GM, so you have the rules granted authority to say "No!"

Liberty's Edge

2 things in order

1) Without considering its price is the weapon unbalancing for your game ? If it is not, let the player have his shiny toy ;-)

2) If it is indeed unbalancing, just rule that the CRB rule only applies to weapons in the CRB or any other restriction you wish. After all, the CRB was written long before such priceless weapons came out and thus could not take them into account :-)

Lantern Lodge

Or rule that a wizard can't have a bonded weapon she is not proficient with. I don't think that would be unreasonable myself.

Also remembering that the wizard is going to have to have this weapon in hand to cast any spell (without requiring a concentration check).

It's going to be very hard to use subtle spells like charm person if you are holding a revolver. This includes cantrips like detect magic.

Lastly, if the player gets officious and insists. Well, that first level wizard is now walking around with a 4300gp item in her hand.. I know what every rogue in the village/town/city is going to be thinking. Talk about easy money.

Grand Lodge

Or give the other players a similar boost...

Liberty's Edge

*Khan* wrote:
Or give the other players a similar boost...

Or the enemies. As the players meet them only once, give the BEEG a bonus of 4,000 gp in one shot items that he/it use before the encounter.

The other players will explain to the wizard how bad is his idea.

Liberty's Edge

Is a revolver in the hands of a wizard that unbalancing ? I do not know the weapon in PFRPG


Unless he actually takes the feats for being good with it, his bonded revolver is honestly just a novelty item.

You might want to look at gunslinger and apply the "battered firearm" rules to his starting gun - it's a MW revolver for him, it's a broken piece of junk to anyone else.

(Also, I think that revolver is only worth 1K or something if revolvers are standard in your campaign - guns everywhere rules)

Tech items are a bit different - tech items are functionally magic items, and are priced accordingly. He can't start with a deathray anymore than he could start with a wand of fireballs.


Zyrocon wrote:
So as it's written Wizards get a free MW weapon of their choice, the only restriction being that it is not made out of any special materials. One of my players has picked a revolver, which would normally cost them 4,300 gp. Every rule I've managed to dig up says nothing is wrong with this, but it won't leave my mind as being ridiculous. Is there some limitations? Or is it actually just this silly? This is for level 1 play btw, at higher levels I wouldn't care but level 1 with a weapon that expensive doesn't feel right.

I would not care. The weapon's actual usage value is not that much. If they try to sell it, I would not let them get 2150 until they were at a higher level, and I would tell them this up front to avoid any shenanigans.


Zyrocon wrote:
So as it's written Wizards get a free MW weapon of their choice, the only restriction being that it is not made out of any special materials. One of my players has picked a revolver, which would normally cost them 4,300 gp. Every rule I've managed to dig up says nothing is wrong with this, but it won't leave my mind as being ridiculous. Is there some limitations? Or is it actually just this silly? This is for level 1 play btw, at higher levels I wouldn't care but level 1 with a weapon that expensive doesn't feel right.

You can put whatever you feel are reasonable restrictions. One rule that I use would be to limit it to weapons that are proficiency limited by class and race. So an elf wizard could take a bow or sword.

If he wants a gun that badly, and you want to let him, consider making him take the Spellslinger archetype.

Also remember that if he casts a spell, the gun MUST be in hand or he'll have to make a concentration check to avoid losing it. Which can make it kind of hard to be subtle in casting spells.


You're the GM, so you get to veto a player choice of a weapon. If you don't have advanced firearms in your world, you can totally say "no" to this request. (Or, for that matter, any request.)

Remember that taking a weapon as a bonded object does not automatically grant proficiency with the weapon. To use a weapon that's not on the character's list of weapon proficiencies without the -4 non-proficiency penalty does require taking the appropriate "Martial Weapon Proficiency" or "Exotic Weapon Proficiency" feat.


Here's another thread where I get to say:

This is not a video game.

Situations like this are EXACTLY why we have a GM in this game. To make judgment calls and fair/balanced rulings.

If this were my game I'd say to the player "That's way above the guidelines for Wealth by Level. I'm prepared to allow it as long as you're prepared to buy ammo for it. However, it will count as part of your wealth and I'll be "editing" upcoming treasure hoards and other loot to remove wizard items until I'm sure the rest of the group has caught up with your wealth AND you're about midway 4th level where it makes sense for you to have that much wealth. And you won't be able to sell it, because for many levels your only markets will be small enough that they can't afford such an expensive purchase."

Without knowing YOUR player, my bet is that he'll change his mind. He only wants the revolver to sell it and buy wands and scrolls and then bond with a dagger or something. If I'm wrong, well, then he'll get to start with a revolver and whatever ammo he can afford. No worries, low-level wizards are craptastic anyway so that won't bother me, and I'll fix it by balancing upcoming treasure.


Zyrocon wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:
Does your campaign have revolvers at all, its easy enough to say primitive firearms only.
Yes, I do like the advanced firearms in general, It just feels weird that the rules would allow this. God forbid you allowed the advanced technology and the wizard decided to start with a Death Ray (any GM with half a brain slaps them and says no, but the rules as I've seen them don't seem to care)

Keep in mind that when Core Rule Book rules were written, the only book out was... the Core Rulebook. Like in the old days, Paizo assumes that GMs would halt exploitive applications of rules text.

GMs need to remember that THEY, not the books, are the last word on the subject.


I like Primitive firearms and some of the high tech stuff out of Technology Guide. However I also understand people not wanting anything like that. He wants a Revolver and you allow it that's okay. However think about this the gun is loud and like all weapons requires maintainence and upkeep. If he doesn't take the required skills and feats that lovely Revolver will be scrap for him. Ammunition adds up. He doesn't have the skills to make his own most towns may not have anyone who does or even carry ammunition. One adventure and all the ammo he bought is gone depending on how much he used it for. Even if he has the skills he needs at the very least a portable work bench and time. That's time beside his required eight hours rest and time to meditate afterwards to gain spells.
Personally I don't like the feel of advanced firearms in a fantasy campaign and I think advanced firearms are unbalancing compared to Primitive ones. But this is your campaign and your call. However you now have some tips for keeping that firearm under control. Another point when he can magic it his selection is limited. There are magic enhancements that specifically say no to firearms. Which you if you want to say do apply. On some of them I wouldn't.

Liberty's Edge

DM_Blake wrote:

However, it will count as part of your wealth and I'll be "editing" upcoming treasure hoards and other loot to remove wizard items until I'm sure the rest of the group has caught up with your wealth AND you're about midway 4th level where it makes sense for you to have that much wealth.

That could work in a group where found magic items are simply handed out at those that can use them (but probably the wizard would say something like "I haven't received anything from the loot, so I get first dibs for the defection ring or resist cloak", maintaining the unbalance), it wouldn't work so well in a group where you get shares based on the loot value.


Diego Rossi wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:

However, it will count as part of your wealth and I'll be "editing" upcoming treasure hoards and other loot to remove wizard items until I'm sure the rest of the group has caught up with your wealth AND you're about midway 4th level where it makes sense for you to have that much wealth.

That could work in a group where found magic items are simply handed out at those that can use them (but probably the wizard would say something like "I haven't received anything from the loot, so I get first dibs for the defection ring or resist cloak", maintaining the unbalance), it wouldn't work so well in a group where you get shares based on the loot value.

Actually, I would talk it over with the whole group. Otherwise, the savvy players would wonder why the Master-of-the-Universe top-tier wizard got a starting revolver on top of being the most powerful class in the game. They would all know that this is part of his loot and that I am making it up to THEM by balancing loot for a few levels.

Note - I'm not punishing the wizard, I'm correcting the imbalance for everyone else. They should appreciate that and work with the system. I would insist on it, but I've never really played with people who failed to understand simple ideas like that.


DM_Blake wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:

However, it will count as part of your wealth and I'll be "editing" upcoming treasure hoards and other loot to remove wizard items until I'm sure the rest of the group has caught up with your wealth AND you're about midway 4th level where it makes sense for you to have that much wealth.

That could work in a group where found magic items are simply handed out at those that can use them (but probably the wizard would say something like "I haven't received anything from the loot, so I get first dibs for the defection ring or resist cloak", maintaining the unbalance), it wouldn't work so well in a group where you get shares based on the loot value.

Actually, I would talk it over with the whole group. Otherwise, the savvy players would wonder why the Master-of-the-Universe top-tier wizard got a starting revolver on top of being the most powerful class in the game. They would all know that this is part of his loot and that I am making it up to THEM by balancing loot for a few levels.

Note - I'm not punishing the wizard, I'm correcting the imbalance for everyone else. They should appreciate that and work with the system. I would insist on it, but I've never really played with people who failed to understand simple ideas like that.

What do you mean by imbalance?

If it is starting wealth then yeah there is one, but that gun is not really adding to the wizard's power so from that perspective not much is different.


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Diego Rossi wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:

However, it will count as part of your wealth and I'll be "editing" upcoming treasure hoards and other loot to remove wizard items until I'm sure the rest of the group has caught up with your wealth AND you're about midway 4th level where it makes sense for you to have that much wealth.

That could work in a group where found magic items are simply handed out at those that can use them (but probably the wizard would say something like "I haven't received anything from the loot, so I get first dibs for the defection ring or resist cloak", maintaining the unbalance), it wouldn't work so well in a group where you get shares based on the loot value.

I know it's a typo, and I'm not trying to ridicule, but "Defection Ring" sounds like an awesome cursed item. Maybe it uses a Dominate effect to cause the wearer to change sides in a conflict? Or would it be better if it triggered a Veil effect, causing the wearer to see their party as the enemies, and the enemies as their party?


I meant wealth imbalance.

Sure, a ranged touch attack with +1 to hit that does 1d8 damage is nice, but paying 15gp per attack is pretty costly at level 1. The ammo might be a whole lot cheaper if there is an actual gunslinger in the party who can make cheaper ammo. Although, if there IS a gunslinger who doesn't start with a revolver, I imagine that player will have a big WTF moment when the wizard whips out a bigger gun than his. No, not a metaphor...

But selling that gun for 2,150gp and buying scrolls (or making them at half price) and wands with the cash would be a bit much at first level.


Scythia wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:

However, it will count as part of your wealth and I'll be "editing" upcoming treasure hoards and other loot to remove wizard items until I'm sure the rest of the group has caught up with your wealth AND you're about midway 4th level where it makes sense for you to have that much wealth.

That could work in a group where found magic items are simply handed out at those that can use them (but probably the wizard would say something like "I haven't received anything from the loot, so I get first dibs for the defection ring or resist cloak", maintaining the unbalance), it wouldn't work so well in a group where you get shares based on the loot value.

I know it's a typo, and I'm not trying to ridicule, but "Defection Ring" sounds like an awesome cursed item. Maybe it uses a Dominate effect to cause the wearer to change sides in a conflict? Or would it be better if it triggered a Veil effect, causing the wearer to see their party as the enemies, and the enemies as their party?

Just be thankful it's not a cursed Defecation Ring...


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DM_Blake wrote:
Just be thankful it's not a cursed Defecation Ring...

Hmmmm, come to think of it, I might just have something there:

It appears to be a Ring of Deflection +2, but when the wearer is hit, he must immediately go #2 which causes 1 round of the Nauseated condition as his bowels are overcome with instant and irresistible cramps leading to, well, as Dead Pool says, "He should have worn his brown pants..."


DM_Blake wrote:

I meant wealth imbalance.

Sure, a ranged touch attack with +1 to hit that does 1d8 damage is nice, but paying 15gp per attack is pretty costly at level 1. The ammo might be a whole lot cheaper if there is an actual gunslinger in the party who can make cheaper ammo. Although, if there IS a gunslinger who doesn't start with a revolver, I imagine that player will have a big WTF moment when the wizard whips out a bigger gun than his. No, not a metaphor...

But selling that gun for 2,150gp and buying scrolls (or making them at half price) and wands with the cash would be a bit much at first level.

I said earlier that I would tell the player he cant just sell the gun for 2150 until he gets to a certain level to avoid any shenanigans. That would take care of that. If he wants to pout about it then I would just take all guns off the list for his bonded item.

Dark Archive

I'd be very reluctant to allow a revolver. Maybe a musket or black powder pistol at most. You know, the single shot muzzle loader pistols? But without proficiency it's going to be a pain to use. Gunpowder will be expensive and potentially dangerous to carry. Bullets will be a little pricey. And the wizard had better hope it never backfires on him/her. Really, gunslingers are one of the few classes that can effectively use a firearm. And that's in large part because they can make their own ammo and black powder. That, and actually fix their guns.

More likely I'd say "nope, you can't start with a gun" to the wizard's player.


DM_Blake wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
Just be thankful it's not a cursed Defecation Ring...

Hmmmm, come to think of it, I might just have something there:

It appears to be a Ring of Deflection +2, but when the wearer is hit, he must immediately go #2 which causes 1 round of the Nauseated condition as his bowels are overcome with instant and irresistible cramps leading to, well, as Dead Pool says, "He should have worn his brown pants..."

As long as the ring itself is rust coloured.

Liberty's Edge

Scythia wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:

However, it will count as part of your wealth and I'll be "editing" upcoming treasure hoards and other loot to remove wizard items until I'm sure the rest of the group has caught up with your wealth AND you're about midway 4th level where it makes sense for you to have that much wealth.

That could work in a group where found magic items are simply handed out at those that can use them (but probably the wizard would say something like "I haven't received anything from the loot, so I get first dibs for the defection ring or resist cloak", maintaining the unbalance), it wouldn't work so well in a group where you get shares based on the loot value.

I know it's a typo, and I'm not trying to ridicule, but "Defection Ring" sounds like an awesome cursed item. Maybe it uses a Dominate effect to cause the wearer to change sides in a conflict? Or would it be better if it triggered a Veil effect, causing the wearer to see their party as the enemies, and the enemies as their party?

Early morning posting + thrusting the spell checker too much.

But awesome!

Dark Archive

You thrust spell checker?! Diego, are you sure that post didn't belong in the Succubus in a Grapple thread? :)

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