Piercing the Heavens: N. Jolly's guide to the Pathfinder Warpriest


Advice

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Silver Crusade

The Mortonator wrote:
Shields wrote:

I am looking at the Arsenal Chaplain path.

If you did take the Fighter VMC, and take the Focused Weapon advanced weapon training, would you then just get your Sacred Weapon damage back and negate one of the main penalties of the archetype?

Quote:

Focused Weapon (Ex): The fighter selects one weapon for which he has Weapon Focus and that belongs to the associated fighter weapon group. The fighter can deal damage with this weapon based on the damage of the

warpriest’s sacred weapon ACG class feature, treating his fighter level as his warpriest level.

I don't know if that changes much, or if I am missing something, but figured I would check.

Thanks for all your work.

Pretty much, yes. The question is is it worth spending a limited feat on? (Answer: Depends on weapon and level.)

I think it can be depending on the other parts of your build. For TWF, it's totally worth it. For 2 handers, it's not nearly as vital.

BadBird wrote:
That's true you mention it with Crusader's Flurry - I had read that earlier and didn't have it in mind. Anyhow it's not a big deal, I was more reacting to the text you've got for Sacred Fist that seems to imply it's strictly an unarmed combatant. I've just noticed that people often seem to completely miss the armed option (even just better Monk weapons for a level 1 feat) on the Sacred Fist, since they see scaling unarmed damage and assume the class is hard-wired to it.

Once I get back to the guide (probably in a day or so until FE:F Revelations comes out), I'll mention that in the Sacred Fist section too, since a single feat is a small price to pay for the power of TWF with a 2 hander.

Rushacre wrote:

Finally a Warpriest guide! Thanks so much for writing this, I'm completely new to the game, well RPG's in general. My first PC is a Warpriest of Cayden Cailean and I've struggled finding any help out there for it, just had to cobble bits together from fighter and cleric guides really so really looking forward to the rest of this being completed.

Anyway if anyone has any advice for my build going forward that would be awesome...

He has reached Lvl 4 Half Elf,
Blessings: Good & Travel
Dex Based, TWF, wielding two Kukri.
Feats: Weapon Finesse, TWF, Weapon focus: Kukri, Double Slice and Improved initiative and Skill Focus: Perception.
Most used spells 0- Create water, Detect Magic, Light, Guidance 1- Divine Favor,Bless, Command, 2- Protection from Evil Mass, hold person.

I've probably made some mistakes on the way but hopefully some good decisions too. Remember... new to this, go easy on me!

No problem, the old one was painfully out of date, and I kind of have a thing for writing guides, also gives me info to add to my own 3P stuff when I see gaps in the class.

Double Slice isn't super great, you're not getting a lot from it sadly, so you could probably drop it. Improved initiative is normally nice, but since you need a full attack and don't currently have a way to make two attacks after a move, I think you could consider dropping that for something else. Maybe pick up quick draw, it could be fun to set up for picking up ricochet shot too so you can TWF at a moderate range.

Josh-o-Lantern wrote:
I'd like to make a case for Artifice Blessing Transfer Magic which you rate as only one star. A single arrow with Bane (whatever) is only 160gp. Carry a quiver of 10 singles with the most common foes in your area to switch onto you main weapon isn't bad for a discount Inquisitor. I personally get a hole drilled into a few sling bullets, enchant them up, string them together as a necklace or bracelet just so they are always on hand.

Fair point, as a mid/late game idea for picking up a few bane weapons of X type and passing over the bane, it's not bad. I think that'd raise it to orange, but it's a passable strategy.

---------------------------------------------------

Yeah, went hard into FE:F, that's why the guide hasn't been updated. I'll be finishing it in a day or so hopefully, so I'll have some time to start work on things again involving this guide, as well as hopefully getting the Alchemist guide completely star coded as well.

As always, suggestions and such are welcome.

Also Vamp, got your message (you know you can just post in the thread, right?), and I think I could consider bumping it up to orange since it's still situational, but still solid in that situation.


Dotting.


This is an excellent guide. I am building my first half-orc character since 1ed.


Dotting so i can find


eakratz wrote:
Under Fervor you mention slightly worse for evil because of self healing. I do believe that they could still self heal by memorizing cure spells. A swift action CMW ain't too shabby. Still slightly worse but an option.

I'm playing an evil Warpriest at the moment and I got around this by taking Alignment channel (subtype evil of course) and now I can do a little bit of healing to the whole party (that happens to be all evil). It's literally saved our necks a few times.


Here's a great build that hasn't been discussed: DEX build with weapon finesse + agile maneuver feat + whip as sacred weapon. You can buy a scorpion whip that does leathal damage or if you have room for the feat, take whip mastery and start down that feat line. Now I realize that a down side to this is that you either worship a deity who's favored weapon is a whip or take the proficiency feat so take this with a grain of salt but my evil Warpriest of Moloch (who's favored weapon is the whip) had been pretty awesome with his whip. The DEX build has been great because it increases AC, initiative, and the god awful reflex save. You can attack with a 15 ft reach and trip and disarm for some great battle field control. You may not do as much damage but there are ways around that through different weapon enhancements and spells. You can focus on WIS, DEX, and CON as stats and be very effective at a distance.


TheHealerYouAlwaysWanted wrote:
eakratz wrote:
Under Fervor you mention slightly worse for evil because of self healing. I do believe that they could still self heal by memorizing cure spells. A swift action CMW ain't too shabby. Still slightly worse but an option.
I'm playing an evil Warpriest at the moment and I got around this by taking Alignment channel (subtype evil of course) and now I can do a little bit of healing to the whole party (that happens to be all evil). It's literally saved our necks a few times.

Channel Evil only works on Outsiders with the Evil subtype, so it shouldn't work unless your party is playing the campaign as actual fiends


Entryhazard wrote:
TheHealerYouAlwaysWanted wrote:
eakratz wrote:
Under Fervor you mention slightly worse for evil because of self healing. I do believe that they could still self heal by memorizing cure spells. A swift action CMW ain't too shabby. Still slightly worse but an option.
I'm playing an evil Warpriest at the moment and I got around this by taking Alignment channel (subtype evil of course) and now I can do a little bit of healing to the whole party (that happens to be all evil). It's literally saved our necks a few times.
Channel Evil only works on Outsiders with the Evil subtype, so it shouldn't work unless your party is playing the campaign as actual fiends

True, however I was able to hash it out with my DM that since my the whole party has pretty much pleged themselves to the devil that he would allow it. It's house rule but the point is: work with your DM to tweak your character. I think the feat is rather weak if you limit it to just outsiders and fortunately my DM agreed. It makes sense for the party/ campaign so we went with it.


The thread must go on! Here is my half-orc warpriest of Lythertida:

Vanilla warpriest using reach and intimidate, and a cruel weapon ASAP.

Traits: fate's favored, preference of reactionary or finish the fight
Sacred tattoo alternate racial trait

Str: 16
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 7
Wis: 16
Cha: 12

Domains: Death, Good

1.) Tribal scars, +2 to intimidate option, weapon focus lucerne hammer
3.) power attack, intimidating prowess
5.) hurtful
6.) Cornugon smash, vital strike

Things to note:

1.) this guy loves being enlarged. It makes VS damage 6d6+ your bonus, and it gives you in +4 to intimidate against creatures of medium and large size. Even though his strength will be a main focus of improvement, I'm not even sure if intimidating prowess is even necessary due to how mean he is when enlarged.

2.) You may be asking, "why take this diety with these stinky domains?" Couple reasons. First is that it gives you improved unarmed strike for free. This gets around the problem of threat range when enlarged, and also gives you a backup plan if you ever find yourself without a weapon. Second is that I wanted the death domain. Its in combat use is pretty minimal, but I want it for out of combat. This guy can intimidate the pants off of anyone thanks to being able to pop a blessing for a +4.

3.) Intimidating prowess is the leading canidate for your 3rd level bonus feat, but you may decide you don't feel any need for it due to all your other bonuses. Some alternatives could be extra traits, combat reflexes, improved initiative, furious focus, or some other idea you have.

Please share your thoughts and suggestions!


I'm trying to figure out a way to upgrade my number of Fervor uses per day. Is there any feat or items out (That's not 3rd party) the can be used to increase my daily use of Fervor?


headband of wisdom will increase.
Extra channel gives extra just for channeling.

That's about it. Swift spells are strong and I guess they wanted very controlled limits set for it.


Was hoping something was added with all the new splat books.
I don't see where burning a feat for two more fervor would be overpowered. Monks, paladins, clerics, even magus have a feat that allows extra uses of a class ability.


Matt2VK wrote:

Was hoping something was added with all the new splat books.

I don't see where burning a feat for two more fervor would be overpowered. Monks, paladins, clerics, even magus have a feat that allows extra uses of a class ability.

Ki, lay on hands, channel, and arcane pool are all greatly inferior to fervor. That is why.

Silver Crusade

Matt2VK wrote:

Was hoping something was added with all the new splat books.

I don't see where burning a feat for two more fervor would be overpowered. Monks, paladins, clerics, even magus have a feat that allows extra uses of a class ability.

I'd like to add stuff to this eventually, but:

A-Most ACG classes not named 'Investigator' receive new content.
B-Both PFSRD/AON are updating SUPER slowly now.
C-I'm busy writing other things at the moment, although I did set up a patreon that'll involve me getting back to guides as well as writing new guides if certain goals are met. I think there's a link to it in the guide, if not, I'll be adding them later.

I do want to get back to this one later, as I only need armor, wondrous items, and sample builds, so it's basically at the finish line.


Del_Taco_Eater wrote:
Matt2VK wrote:

Was hoping something was added with all the new splat books.

I don't see where burning a feat for two more fervor would be overpowered. Monks, paladins, clerics, even magus have a feat that allows extra uses of a class ability.
Ki, lay on hands, channel, and arcane pool are all greatly inferior to fervor. That is why.

Nah

Especially given that the designer equated two fervors with a single channel


N. Jolly wrote:
A-Most ACG classes not named 'Investigator' receive new content.

Trust me, it only feels that way because you like Investigator. XD I'm pretty sure they are doing relatively well on archetypes for the ACG.


yeah. skald and swash have 2 archetypes; WP and slayer have 1; brawler, arcanist, shaman, have 0 I think, outside of ACG and ACO


With 17 archetypes on PFSRD & 2 from ISI I'd say the investigator has plenty of content :)

Compare that to:

Arcanist: 13
Bloodrager: 15
Brawler: 9
Hunter: 11
Shaman: 9
Skald: 13
Slayer: 11
Swashbuckler 13
Warpriest: 11


Just wanted to toss up a feat that I think is pretty cool

From: Magic Tactics Toolbox

Ability Mastery (Item Mastery)
Preqs: UMD 3, Fort +4, Magic Item with Trransmut spell of 2nd level or higher
Benefit: +2 enhancement to a ability score for 24 hours

Ranking: Green (Good)

I'd rank it higher for as MAD as warpriests can get, it's a way to bump up some of the warpriests stats. Why I don't rank it higher is because of the lack of Warpriests skills. Although UMD is a very useful skill...


Since you mention it alongside Fate's Favored - errata for the Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier has (as part of making it nigh worthless) changed the 'luck' bonus to a 'deflection' bonus.


Chess Pwn wrote:
yeah. skald and swash have 2 archetypes; WP and slayer have 1; brawler, arcanist, shaman, have 0 I think, outside of ACG and ACO

Shaman got Silver Throned Something in one of the small Occult books. Origins, maybe?

Pretty sure I saw an Arcanist one in one of the recent Players Companions. Something related to Old Man Jatembe stuff.


kadance wrote:
Since you mention it alongside Fate's Favored - errata for the Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier has (as part of making it nigh worthless) changed the 'luck' bonus to a 'deflection' bonus.

Not cool, dude. :\


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I've been looking through books for feats to aid my intimidate character and I believe I have found a gem.

The feat "cruelty" from ISG gives a +2 morale bonus to hit and damage whenever you successfully intimidate someone.

And, because I love to cheese, combine this with a courageous AOMF for a +3 bonus instead. (2k gold and a feat for a far bigger than appropriate benefit.)

Mr. Jolly ought to add this feat to his guide its so overpowered.

Silver Crusade

Del_Taco_Eater wrote:

I've been looking through books for feats to aid my intimidate character and I believe I have found a gem.

The feat "cruelty" from ISG gives a +2 morale bonus to hit and damage whenever you successfully intimidate someone.

And, because I love to cheese, combine this with a courageous AOMF for a +3 bonus instead. (2k gold and a feat for a far bigger than appropriate benefit.)

Mr. Jolly ought to add this feat to his guide its so overpowered.

I'll try to make sure I get to this, it's a good find. Right now I'm hosting a patreon to help with actually getting my guides updated since I'm doing a lot of freelancing at the moment, but I still want to update them aside from that.


Del_Taco_Eater wrote:


And, because I love to cheese, combine this with a courageous AOMF for a +3 bonus instead. (2k gold and a feat for a far bigger than appropriate benefit.)

It is rumored that courageous is going to be errata-ed to only work with morale bonuses to fear effects.

Scarab Sages

miscdebris wrote:
Del_Taco_Eater wrote:


And, because I love to cheese, combine this with a courageous AOMF for a +3 bonus instead. (2k gold and a feat for a far bigger than appropriate benefit.)
It is rumored that courageous is going to be errata-ed to only work with morale bonuses to fear effects.

Not a rumor. It's already happened. It's been FAQ'd for over a year, and it's in the errata that was issued in May for Ultimate Equipment.


I missed that in all the Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier complaining (that I participated in a little).

Thanks for the heads up.


Sheeeeeeeeeeit


You can combine cruelty with the community minded trait. That's actually a really strong combo come to think of it...


That is very strong, just you have only one trait available and so many things competing for the spot.


I've been trying to find advice on the idea of a Warpriest/Holy Vindicator build, but no one seems to mention the two in combination at all. Maybe I'm naive, but it seems they fit together pretty well, though the loss of Fervor progression and Bonus Feats would admittedly be painful.

Not at all optimal, but do you think that sort of thing would be a good idea?

Thanks in advance


if something is "not at all optimal" you're not going to see much talk about it and it's probably not a "good idea". Just saying.

Vindicator is kinda all about channeling, and the warpriest doesn't like to channel as it burns it's fervor really quickly and it's not as strong as a cleric's.

So you're getting Full BAB and maybe some AC from the sacred shield for having a lower caster level, not progressing you sacred weapon enhancements, not getting greater blessings, not getting fighter-full-bab bonus feats, and less fervor.

Can it work? Yeah, not the worst idea. But it's seeming to be worse than just a normal warpriest.


Chess Pwn wrote:

if something is "not at all optimal" you're not going to see much talk about it and it's probably not a "good idea". Just saying.

Vindicator is kinda all about channeling, and the warpriest doesn't like to channel as it burns it's fervor really quickly and it's not as strong as a cleric's.

So you're getting Full BAB and maybe some AC from the sacred shield for having a lower caster level, not progressing you sacred weapon enhancements, not getting greater blessings, not getting fighter-full-bab bonus feats, and less fervor.

Can it work? Yeah, not the worst idea. But it's seeming to be worse than just a normal warpriest.

I guess you're right. I do think the first 5 levels are a lot stronger than the last 5 though. I'm debating a 5-level dip. I love the theme of it, but I'm struggling to make it feel worth while.

I guess I just wanted help trying to justify myself. Was hoping it could be somewhat decent, but in the end I'm really not sold it's a good idea.


Warpriest Channel does have the rather huge advantage of being wisdom-based, but I doubt that's enough to get anyone interested. If looking at old prestige classes, I'd be more interested in some levels of Divine Scion to streamline weapon feats and grab that +4CMB from Strength Domain.


It is written that the Sacred Fist can be solid as an unarmed fighter. Later it is said that aside from bad touch it is kinda meh. Care to elaborate, please?


Sorry to necro this thread a bit, the guide is awesome, but I'm new to VMC and non-Druid divine casters.
Could anyone give me an outline of a warpriest/cleric VMC Bad Touch, and/or a warpriest/soul eater example build? Thanks!


Matt2VK wrote:
I'm trying to figure out a way to upgrade my number of Fervor uses per day. Is there any feat or items out (That's not 3rd party) the can be used to increase my daily use of Fervor?

Yes. The Vestment of war from Melee Tactics Toolbox acts as a divine focus, and gives two additional uses of fervor, among other things for paladins and channelers. It really seems like a strong contender for the body slot on almost any warpriest, besides sacred fist.

EDIT: Necro'ed, sorry.

Silver Crusade

Thewdragon wrote:
Matt2VK wrote:
I'm trying to figure out a way to upgrade my number of Fervor uses per day. Is there any feat or items out (That's not 3rd party) the can be used to increase my daily use of Fervor?

Yes. The Vestment of war from Melee Tactics Toolbox acts as a divine focus, and gives two additional uses of fervor, among other things for paladins and channelers. It really seems like a strong contender for the body slot on almost any warpriest, besides sacred fist.

At 14,000 gp, that's not something most people will be able to afford until level 8-10, at least, but still seems totally worth it. And it's PFS legal, so I'll definitely grab it on my PFS warpriest when he eventually gets that far (about to hit level 3). Thanks for pointing it out.


Fromper wrote:
Thewdragon wrote:
Matt2VK wrote:
I'm trying to figure out a way to upgrade my number of Fervor uses per day. Is there any feat or items out (That's not 3rd party) the can be used to increase my daily use of Fervor?

Yes. The Vestment of war from Melee Tactics Toolbox acts as a divine focus, and gives two additional uses of fervor, among other things for paladins and channelers. It really seems like a strong contender for the body slot on almost any warpriest, besides sacred fist.

At 14,000 gp, that's not something most people will be able to afford until level 8-10, at least, but still seems totally worth it. And it's PFS legal, so I'll definitely grab it on my PFS warpriest when he eventually gets that far (about to hit level 3). Thanks for pointing it out.

Yep. NP, man.


Which is the archtype that allows weapon focus with weapon groups?

Or is there one.


Paths of the Righteous has a feat that lets you use Wisdom instead of Dexterity on Ranged attacks.
I don't know the exact wording but it is called Erastil’s Blessing so I presume you must worship Erastil.

Would this feat alter the way you build an archer Warpriest?


Mokshai wrote:

Which is the archtype that allows weapon focus with weapon groups?

Or is there one.

I mean, there's an advanced weapon training that eventually lets you apply all weapon specific feats to all weapons of its group?


I'm honestly sort of unclear how the Arsenal Chaplain's Weapon Training interacts with AWT. Obviously you don't get additional weapon groups to trade, but you do have named weapon training so you can skip the martial focus prereq if you want ricochet toss for throwing. But you don't have weapon focus in a group, just "everything you have weapon focus on" so I'm not sure how this interacts with AWT options that refer to weapon groups.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
I'm honestly sort of unclear how the Arsenal Chaplain's Weapon Training interacts with AWT. Obviously you don't get additional weapon groups to trade, but you do have named weapon training so you can skip the martial focus prereq if you want ricochet toss for throwing. But you don't have weapon focus in a group, just "everything you have weapon focus on" so I'm not sure how this interacts with AWT options that refer to weapon groups.

Since it states they just get exactly the same feature, presumably it falls under the FAQ about class features functioning the same if they are stated to be the same feature. Otherwise, only the Rogue could ever benefit from Sneak Attack feats, and Mutagen Warrior couldn't get any discoveries for his Mutagen.

That means Arsenal Chaplain is able to take AWT presumably, since the only way to get that is with a feat, and the feat only cares about the weapon training feature and being considered a 5th level fighter, which the warpriest qualifies through their features.

Which is kinda neat. That basically means that with Warrior Spirit and Focused Weapon, you don't really lose your scaling weapon damage, and you get to add even more enhancements onto your weapon.


But if the Arsenal Chaplain takes, say, Versatile Training via a feat, what skills can the Warpriest choose from? Simply Bluff and Intimidate, or those as well as the skills associated with whatever fighter group their sacred weapon belongs to?


A good question? I don't really know, though I would think it would be like the weapon master, and be based on whichever weapon groups the warpriest's favoured weapon falls under.


Please list Apsu's Shining Scales. It takes Sacred Fist Warpriests to a whole other level.


How do they cast it?


Apsu's Shining Scales wrote:
Clerics, inquisitors, oracles, paladins, and warpriests who worship Apsu add Apsu’s shining scales to their class spell lists as a 3rd-level spell.

Shadow Lodge

Apsu doesn't <normally> grant spells to non-Dragon worshipers.

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