Valiant Vault


Rules Questions


Can someone tell me how Valiant Vault is useful? The way it's phrased, it seems like every time you spend a mythic point to use it, you can't get the benefit of the mythic point.

According to the feat, "you can expend one use of mythic power to grant your mount a +10 bonus on an Acrobatics check, or a +20 bonus if the check is made to jump." But in the next paragraph, "You make a Ride check or your mount makes an Acrobatics check (whichever is lower) during the charge, using the rules for the leap task under the Ride skill." Therefore:

If you spend the mythic point, you add +20 to the mount's Acrobatics modifier, almost inevitably making it the higher modifier. (Your average horse gets +11 to jumps just for Str and base speed alone. With the mythic point that's +31, which a PC could theoretically outdo, but s/he'd need 20 ranks in Ride plus 28 Dex to do it.) Thus spending the point forces you to use the rider's Ride check, not the mount's Acrobatics check.

In other words, every time you spend the mythic point, the point makes itself obsolete. Seems to me this feat needs to be rephrased to say you can supersede the normal jump rules, and use whichever skill is _higher_.


Magnus Arcadian wrote:

Can someone tell me how Valiant Vault is useful? The way it's phrased, it seems like every time you spend a mythic point to use it, you can't get the benefit of the mythic point.

According to the feat, "you can expend one use of mythic power to grant your mount a +10 bonus on an Acrobatics check, or a +20 bonus if the check is made to jump." But in the next paragraph, "You make a Ride check or your mount makes an Acrobatics check (whichever is lower) during the charge, using the rules for the leap task under the Ride skill." Therefore:

If you spend the mythic point, you add +20 to the mount's Acrobatics modifier, almost inevitably making it the higher modifier. (Your average horse gets +11 to jumps just for Str and base speed alone. With the mythic point that's +31, which a PC could theoretically outdo, but s/he'd need 20 ranks in Ride plus 28 Dex to do it.) Thus spending the point forces you to use the rider's Ride check, not the mount's Acrobatics check.

In other words, every time you spend the mythic point, the point makes itself obsolete. Seems to me this feat needs to be rephrased to say you can supersede the normal jump rules, and use whichever skill is _higher_.

Easy.

You attempt the maneuver.
The feat checks to see who has the lowest ride or acrobatics.
Mr. Fantastic mythic-dude had 15 skill ranks in ride, and his lame, manged Goblin Dog has 1 rank in acrobatics.

The feat determines that the goblin dog performs the acrobatics check.

NOW, do listen that this feat gives you a bonus to the check, not the roll.

True strike gives you a +20 to the attack roll, which usually signifies that you apply the bonus as you are rolling.

This feat seems to imply that you just add it to the check(result) of the acrobatics result.

So, goblin dog attemps to jump, you spend a mythic point, and for a brief second, his mange turns a golden brown, and the fleas on his hide stand up and salute their Host and Holy Savior, giving him a +20 on his jump check.


Hm. I'm not quite sure. But I love the image of Mr. Fantastic riding a goblin dog, so let's stick with it. :)

It's not the feat that says you see whose modifier is lowest, it's the rule about leaps using the Ride skill. And it's crystal clear: you're to compare whose modifier is lowest, not whose ranks are lowest. But if I understand you, Fernn, you're saying that in using the feat, you'd compare the modifiers to choose who's rolling, and after that, once you've determined it's your mount, you spend the mythic point to give the +20?


Magnus Arcadian wrote:

Hm. I'm not quite sure. But I love the image of Mr. Fantastic riding a goblin dog, so let's stick with it. :)

It's not the feat that says you see whose modifier is lowest, it's the rule about leaps using the Ride skill. And it's crystal clear: you're to compare whose modifier is lowest, not whose ranks are lowest. But if I understand you, Fernn, you're saying that in using the feat, you'd compare the modifiers to choose who's rolling, and after that, once you've determined it's your mount, you spend the mythic point to give the +20?

That would be correct! You nailed it right on the head!

Bring glory to Bones, the Goblin dog!


Talked to my DM about it and he's got a better answer. The point isn't to benefit from your mount's +20 to jump. You might still get that benefit, but only in rare cases, and they don't matter much.

The real point is to be able to use your own Ride skill even on a wimpy mount. My awesome paladin at 5th tier and 12th level is +18 to Ride, but that's useless if he hops on an average horsey. The standard book horsey only +5 to jump checks, but spend the mythic point and now the horsey is +25, which means I didn't sink all those ranks into Ride for nothing.

Of course once my Ride hits +26, I _would_ get to use the horsey's +25, but that's just a side benefit. There are other side benefits too: I can get my mount +20 to jump even when I'm not on it, and I can get it +10 to any other Acrobatics use, like walking a ledge better suited for a mountain goat.

Anyway, I think this reading is pretty insightful.

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