Eldritch Heritage and Familiar Basics


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So Im looking to get a familiar through Eldrtich Heritage using the Arcane Bloodline. I have a question about how to calculate the familars attacks using this feat...

Eldrtich Heritage wrote:

Prerequisites: Cha 13, Skill Focus with the class skill of bloodline selected for this feat (see below), character level 3rd.

Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

For the purposes of calculating a familiars Attacks, saving throws etc. is that at character level -2?

For example, 9th level oracle using Eldrtich Heritage feat to get a familiar would calcuate the familiars attacks as the master base attack bonus at level 7, or 9?

Familiar Bsics, attacks wrote:
ttacks: Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes. Use the familiar's Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to calculate the familiar's melee attack bonus with natural weapons. Damage equals that of a normal creature of the familiar's kind.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

His attack bonus doesn't charge with regards to your class level so the -2 doesn't apply. At level one is your BAB+attribute mod at level 20 its still BAB +attibrute mod.

The -2 is only really go to effect Natural Armor Adjustment, the familiar int score, and what 'specials' he has access to.


Short answer: The -2 to your effective wizard level doesn't matter. The saves, BAB, skills, and HP of a familiar are determined your character's total values from all their levels.

Long answer: Eldritch heritage has you treat your effective sorcerer level as your character level minus 2. The Arcane Bond power of the Arcane Bloodline gives you a familiar using your sorcerer level (or character level minus 2 in this case) as your effective wizard level. However, the effective wizard level of a familiar's master only affects the abilities gained, INT score, and natural armor bonus of the familiar.

The fact that a familiar uses the base saving throws of its master as calculated from all of his classes means that how many levels in wizard the familiar's master has doesn't matter to calculating the familiar's saves. In the same way that the familiar of a Wizard 1/Fighter 9 still has the +6 base fortitude save, the familiar of someone using Eldritch Heritage calculates its saves without regard to its master's levels. Same for BAB, HP, and skills.

The reason that -2 clause is in Eldritch Heritage is because it matters for some bloodline powers, but the Arcane Bloodline is one where it doesn't matter as much.

Maezer wrote:

His attack bonus doesn't charge with regards to your class level so the -2 doesn't apply. At level one is your BAB+attribute mod at level 20 its still BAB +attibrute mod.

The -2 is only really go to effect Natural Armor Adjustment, the familiar int score, and what 'specials' he has access to.

Yeah, this is basically right, although to clarify remember that it's the master's BAB plus the familiar's attribute modifier. A familiar only gets the base values for BAB, saves, and skills from its master, but still modifies them with its own ability scores. Max HP however is calculated without regard to the familiar's CON score, and is fixed at half of the master's HP. This means that a familiar's HP isn't decreased when it takes CON damage, but is decreased when its master takes CON damage... How strange the bond between servant and master is!


Quote:
This means that a familiar's HP isn't decreased when it takes CON damage, but is decreased when its master takes CON damage... How strange the bond between servant and master is!

Indeed that is an interesting caveat, and one I would have overlooked should you have not mentioned it.

Props to Maezer and Schrödinger's Dragon for the help...

As for a familiars skills, if using the masters ranks (because they were higher than the familiars) the familiar would only get the the masters ranks, any +3 bonus for any class skills would have to be included only if they were treated as class skills for that particular familiar, correct? Sorry, Ive never played a class with a familiar before.

familiar basics skills wrote:
Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use. Familiars treat Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim as class skills.


GM Nitemare wrote:
As for a familiars skills, if using the masters ranks (because they were higher than the familiars) the familiar would only get the the masters ranks, any +3 bonus for any class skills would have to be included only if they were treated as class skills for that particular familiar, correct? Sorry, Ive never played a class with a familiar before.

That's correct. The familiar gets its master's skill ranks (assuming the master has more ranks in the given skill), but modifies those skill ranks with its own ability scores, class skills, and other miscellaneous bonuses/penalties (don't forget size modifiers to stealth, racial bonuses to fly for birds, or Skill Focus if your familiar has it!). In order to figure out exactly how many skill ranks your familiar has in certain skills, you might have to reverse engineer it from their statblock, but it's not too hard to do.


A tinge of thread raising here but I figured it would be better to ask here rather than start another thread.

If gaining a familiar through Eldritch Heritige feat in a class that does not have arcane spell casting like an oracle or rogue is it possible to upgrade your familiar with the Improved Familiar feat?


Captian Von Spicy Wiener wrote:

A tinge of thread raising here but I figured it would be better to ask here rather than start another thread.

If gaining a familiar through Eldritch Heritige feat in a class that does not have arcane spell casting like an oracle or rogue is it possible to upgrade your familiar with the Improved Familiar feat?

That's a question with dozens of threads and hundreds of faq clicks. “ought to be yes, is probably no" seems to be the majority opinion.


Captian Von Spicy Wiener wrote:

A tinge of thread raising here but I figured it would be better to ask here rather than start another thread.

If gaining a familiar through Eldritch Heritige feat in a class that does not have arcane spell casting like an oracle or rogue is it possible to upgrade your familiar with the Improved Familiar feat?

Nope, you're not an arcane spellcasting class, so you can't qualify for any improved that needs sufficiently high levels of an arcane spellcasting class.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Eldritch Heritage and Familiar Basics All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.