Game Altering (or Game Breaking?) Spells: Beast Shape I-IV


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


The intent of these line of threads is to generate GM and player discussion on how these spells are used in their games in order to generate some logical analytical discussion about how GMs can make in game rulings, provide fun challenges and encounters, and if required provide some house-rule mechanics options for their table as players gain access to these spells. In theory, a GM could type the spell name in the search and then review this thread to get some useful ideas for this spell in their game.

As always, actual game-use examples from your table preferred, but we can dialogue possible uses if you can provide context.

How did this one change your game? Where there things you didn't anticipate during encounters or skill challenges? Any things a new GM should consider as these spells enter the game?

Of course if you have druid in your game, this thread may be useful as well :-).

PRD Link to Beast Shape


Funilly enough, Beast Shape isn't actually on the Druid spell list. They have to use Wildshape. The Alchemist can turn into a Large Magical Beast (Beastshape IV) and the Druid cannot. Someone should get to fixing that.


Is there any point in talking about just Beast Shape and not just polymorph/shape change?

This spell only makes me salty because the ease of getting it with, say, an animal companion. It's really by far the most effective use of the spell outside of hiding.

I also have to say that I don't understand how there isn't a transmutation specialist martial. I just want a fighter that can turn himself into a dragon. EK is the best for it currently.


hiiamtom wrote:
I just want a fighter that can turn himself into a dragon.

Is [idea/concept/ability] considered a 'nice thing'?

If it is, give it to casters at minimal cost. Restrict martial access heavily.


With wild shape rules it would be so easy too! I've been suffering for a decade at this point. Just full BAB and improved wild shape. That's all you need.

1: wild shape as alter self
3: wild shape as level 2 spells
5: wild shape as level 3 spells
7: wild shape as level 4 spells
9: polymorph
...
17: shapechange
20: capstone

Just toss an ability that stacks like greater magic fang, and allow Wild armor to work with it and I will never, ever play another class.


I don't get WS until 6th due to taking Wolf Shaman Totem, but I'm thinking the Druid wild-shape or these spells have potential to really change up some of the scenario solution options.

I'm considering mostly out of combat scenarios, doing damage as a wolf, cat, elemental is still just damage. However, being able to turn into a beaver and swim underwater vs having to use a potion can change what the GM has to account for.

I suppose not much different than a caster using fly, in terms of considerations (except it can be a flying, burrowing, swimming animal.


hiiamtom wrote:


I also have to say that I don't understand how there isn't a transmutation specialist martial. I just want a fighter that can turn himself into a dragon. EK is the best for it currently.

*yoink*


DominusMegadeus wrote:
Funilly enough, Beast Shape isn't actually on the Druid spell list. They have to use Wildshape. The Alchemist can turn into a Large Magical Beast (Beastshape IV) and the Druid cannot. Someone should get to fixing that.

I'm almost certain that was an intentional limitation of druidic ability. Druids have wild shape instead of beast shape, not as an addition to it. They never get access to magical beast forms because they aren't exactly considered druidic and are a power boost that druids really don't need. In addition, I'm fairly sure the designers don't want druids to be able to polymorph their animal companions with share spells.


I've been wondering... Is there any reason for a Druid to not be Wild Shaped all the time once you get to level 8 or so?

Because if you want to, you can cast spells and even talk while shapeshifted, with a couple of feats. Sure, sometimes there are doors to open, and talking to be done, but then the rest of the party could probably handle that better than you. I guess it depends on what you want your character to do.


Sir Jerden wrote:

I've been wondering... Is there any reason for a Druid to not be Wild Shaped all the time once you get to level 8 or so?

Because if you want to, you can cast spells and even talk while shapeshifted, with a couple of feats. Sure, sometimes there are doors to open, and talking to be done, but then the rest of the party could probably handle that better than you. I guess it depends on what you want your character to do.

From a RP standpoint it wouldn't make sense for my druid. I don't want to be an animal or plant, just harness the power of nature. I guess if it was just my wolf and I running down a deer, sure, but I'm not interested in becoming animal and never changing back.

Mechanically with Wild Speech you can still talk in beast form, and its probably worth the feat (plus another for Natural Spell) to be able to talk and cast in form.

You'd be burning a use of WS not knowing it was the best tactical form for what might happen to you during that day as well. Better to save it until you need it, and retain the options to swap shapes before the duration is over.

Which starts to create the challenge for the GM, when either via spell use or WS, a PC can change into forms best suited to bypass or overcome a challenge that would require tools or skills at lower levels. Just something to be ready for and consider as the party advances to the levels where it starts coming on line.


Well, I don't know about game breaking, but it can be hella versatile for situations I think. I've got a character that is using the 3pp radiance house Occultist and one of the spirits allows you to use Beast Shape 2 (3 and 4 at later levels) and you can not only use the pact all day, but shift from one animal to another using an ability.

Anyways, I recall one time, my character shifted into a crow, flew into a building and perched on a chandelier while some sort of trade was taking place that our party had to interrupt / stop. So, right when they were about to make the trade, I flew down and was able to snatch one of the traded items out of their hand. Then, after managing to get away, I was confronted by some of the opponents, I shifted into a cheetah, landing on my feet and bolted 500ft to another direction. Then... later, I changed into another bird form intent on taking the scroll to the man that gave us the quest. Sadly, some summoned air elementals managed to get the scroll back before I could get away. My fault, as I could have turned into a ground hog to burrow underground (didn't know air elementals were after me at that point though.)

My DM was panicking, he told me, as that item was integral to the next bit of story arc and he would have to rewrite it all if I had managed to get away with it.

And that was all without trying to hurt / kill anyone. Had I wanted to, I could have turned into a dire tiger, or deinonychus and started to tear into the enemy as I'm one of our two front liners.

As I said though, that's under the rules of the 3rd party class. I'm unsure if other classes can shift directly from one form into another within a time period that matters during a fight, so that's a thing to consider in my personal estimations. Even with that, I wouldn't say its broken or OP, just very versatile.

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