The the Nameless One feat mentions that your mask takes up a magic item slot. However, how does this work with enchanting that mask? If one takes the apropriate wizard discovery can it be a bonded item to, and would that allow you to add magical qualities to it? would it also be able to be used as a Fetish Mask from the orc witch archetype (that also allows the adition of magical qualities)?
The question has no rush, just working on possible characters
The tension is between these two sentences in the Arcane Bond rules
Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon.
Several paragraphs later, in the section that talks about repairing or replacing a bonded item.
A wizard can designate an existing magic item as his bonded item.
I don't believe this is a case of the second overriding the first, because there is an interpretation that lets them co-exist. I believe the second sentence only allows a wizard to designate an existing magic item FROM THE APPROPRIATE CATEGORY as his bonded item.
Your mileage may vary, check with your GM.
EDIT: I can't find a feat called "Nameless One". What is the source ?
The tension is between these two sentences in the Arcane Bond rules
Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon.Several paragraphs later, in the section that talks about repairing or replacing a bonded item.
A wizard can designate an existing magic item as his bonded item.I don't believe this is a case of the second overriding the first, because there is an interpretation that lets them co-exist. I believe the second sentence only allows a wizard to designate an existing magic item FROM THE APPROPRIATE CATEGORY as his bonded item.
Your mileage may vary, check with your GM.
EDIT: I can't find a feat called "Nameless One". What is the source ?
The source of the feat is arcane anthology
however like i mentioned there is a discovery that allows a wizard to take a mask as a bonded item. The hellknight spellcaster prestige class allows for the same thing. It is also not about arcane bonds specificaly, again the orc witch archetype also gets a mask that magic can be added to. It also does not add to my original question. That is, if the feat specifically mentions that you cannot have a magical item in the head slot, can you have the mask in the feat made magical.
As I understand it, you're wearing a mask that occupies the head slot. That mask is not (initially) magical. But it is large enough that it fully occupies the slot and doesn't let you use a different magical item in that slot.
But you want to enchant that mask.
Right so far?
All of this should be allowed by the RAW for home games, assuming your mask qualifies as a masterwork item suitable for enchanting. PFS maybe not so much since they don't allow custom magic items.
However, using it as a bonded item would first require a specific class ability that lets you choose a head-slot item - normally you cannot. But it seems you've found a couple options for this, so using those exceptions there should be no problem.
As I understand it, you're wearing a mask that occupies the head slot. That mask is not (initially) magical. But it is large enough that it fully occupies the slot and doesn't let you use a different magical item in that slot.
But you want to enchant that mask.
Right so far?
All of this should be allowed by the RAW for home games, assuming your mask qualifies as a masterwork item suitable for enchanting. PFS maybe not so much since they don't allow custom magic items.
However, using it as a bonded item would first require a specific class ability that lets you choose a head-slot item - normally you cannot. But it seems you've found a couple options for this, so using those exceptions there should be no problem.
I would tend to agree with that, from a reasonable standpoint. however the phrasing of the feat led me to doubt:
"While benefiting from this feat, you cannot wear any magic items in the head slot, as the mask used by this effect effectively occupies this slot"
It specifically mentions any magic items in the head slot.
As I understand it, you're wearing a mask that occupies the head slot. That mask is not (initially) magical. But it is large enough that it fully occupies the slot and doesn't let you use a different magical item in that slot.
But you want to enchant that mask.
Right so far?
All of this should be allowed by the RAW for home games, assuming your mask qualifies as a masterwork item suitable for enchanting. PFS maybe not so much since they don't allow custom magic items.
However, using it as a bonded item would first require a specific class ability that lets you choose a head-slot item - normally you cannot. But it seems you've found a couple options for this, so using those exceptions there should be no problem.
I would tend to agree with that, from a reasonable standpoint. however the phrasing of the feat led me to doubt:
"While benefiting from this feat, you cannot wear any magic items in the head slot, as the mask used by this effect effectively occupies this slot"
It specifically mentions any magic items in the head slot.
It is hard to offer insight on a feat that isn't available online yet. If you post the full text of the feat you are more likely to get relevant answers.
It is hard to offer insight on a feat that isn't available online yet. If you post the full text of the feat you are more likely to get relevant answers.As I understand it, you're wearing a mask that occupies the head slot. That mask is not (initially) magical. But it is large enough that it fully occupies the slot and doesn't let you use a different magical item in that slot.
But you want to enchant that mask.
Right so far?
All of this should be allowed by the RAW for home games, assuming your mask qualifies as a masterwork item suitable for enchanting. PFS maybe not so much since they don't allow custom magic items.
However, using it as a bonded item would first require a specific class ability that lets you choose a head-slot item - normally you cannot. But it seems you've found a couple options for this, so using those exceptions there should be no problem.
I would tend to agree with that, from a reasonable standpoint. however the phrasing of the feat led me to doubt:
"While benefiting from this feat, you cannot wear any magic items in the head slot, as the mask used by this effect effectively occupies this slot"
It specifically mentions any magic items in the head slot.
do you have any idea how long that one is, its half a page of tekst.
You do not own the PDF to cut and paste from ?
Nameless One
You completely eschew your former identity, making you impossible to locate or even name.
Benefit:
[benefits unrelated to the question at hand left out]
While benefiting from this feat, you cannot wear any magic items in the head slot, as the mask used by this effect effectively occupies this
slot (though this benefit is not magical for the purpose of dispel magic and other effects).
[penalties for revealing your identities are unrelated and left out]
I'm also searching for what you call "the apropriate[sic] wizard discovery" but haven't found it yet. Do you recall its name ?
Edit: There's Ioun Bond Arcane Discovery but that only lets you bond with an Ioun Stone instead of the usual class of objects.
You do not own the PDF to cut and paste from ?
Nameless One
You completely eschew your former identity, making you impossible to locate or even name.
Benefit:
[benefits unrelated to the question at hand left out]
While benefiting from this feat, you cannot wear any magic items in the head slot, as the mask used by this effect effectively occupies this
slot (though this benefit is not magical for the purpose of dispel magic and other effects).
[penalties for revealing your identities are unrelated and left out]
I don't see anything in that description that prevents someone from enchanting the mask.
You do not own the PDF to cut and paste from ?,
I'm also searching for what you call "the apropriate[sic] wizard discovery" but haven't found it yet. Do you recall its name ?
Nope, don't have the pdf, I only manage the paper versions of our group.
But if i recal the discovery is in the second part of the Mummy mask campaign. its called bonded mask.
Edit: found it on a forum, source is correct
Bonded Mask: Your devotion to the Forgotten Pharaoh
enables you to select a mask—typically an Osirian funerary
mask—as your bonded item. The mask must be worn
to have effect, and occupies the head slot. In addition,
the mask shields you from notice. While wearing your
bonded mask, efforts to use the Diplomacy skill to gather
information about you take a –1 penalty, and you gain a +1
competence bonus on all saving throws against scrying and
mind-reading effects that allow saving throws.
I don't see anything in that description that prevents someone from enchanting the mask.You do not own the PDF to cut and paste from ?
Nameless One
You completely eschew your former identity, making you impossible to locate or even name.
Benefit:
[benefits unrelated to the question at hand left out]
While benefiting from this feat, you cannot wear any magic items in the head slot, as the mask used by this effect effectively occupies this
slot (though this benefit is not magical for the purpose of dispel magic and other effects).
[penalties for revealing your identities are unrelated and left out]
"you cannot wear any magic items in the head slot"
an enchanted mask is still considerd a magic item right?
What it means:
"While you wear THIS mask, you cannot wear any OTHER magical items in the head-slot, but of course you CAN wear THIS mask in your head-slot; in fact, you're required to wear THIS mask in your head-slot. Enchanting THIS mask means it still occupies your head-slot and you still cannot wear OTHER magical items in this slot."
Nothing about the rule that I've seen so far in this thread prevents enchanting this mask.
"any" is pretty comprehensive, and doesn't exclude "this".
What it means:
"While you wear THIS mask, you cannot wear any OTHER magical items in the head-slot, but of course you CAN wear THIS mask in your head-slot; in fact, you're required to wear THIS mask in your head-slot. Enchanting THIS mask means it still occupies your head-slot and you still cannot wear OTHER magical items in this slot."
Nothing about the rule that I've seen so far in this thread prevents enchanting this mask.
Remember, the mask is non-magical, the feat gives the benefit.
"any" is pretty comprehensive, and doesn't exclude "this".
"as the mask used by this effect" = this. It is clear that the feat is saying that a specific mask you are using for this feat occupies the head slot. In other words, THIS mask.
The feat doesn't say you can't benefit from a magical head slot item, simply that you can't wear one, because you have to wear this one.
As to whether the item can be enchanted, that is a bit questionable. The regular mask isn't really a magic item, but it has some mojo in and of itself. It is possible to conclude that it is a specific quasi-magic item, and thus any attempts to enchant it further would be custom magic item creation and subject to GM approval. One reason to disapprove can be flavor, and this is something I can see many GMs doing with this feat.
I personally would probably allow it if someone took the discovery that also made it the arcane bonded item, but would be tempted to not allow further enchanting if it was just being done through regular craft wondrous item.
Bonded Mask arcane discovery can be found on the Archives of Nethys
The source is Pathfinder Adventure Path #80: Empty Graves (Mummy’s Mask 2 of 6)
Bonded Mask arcane discovery can be found on the Archives of Nethys
The source is Pathfinder Adventure Path #80: Empty Graves (Mummy’s Mask 2 of 6)
with your curiousity indulged, any input on the actual question? :)
This is not easy to know without full access to all of the text. I believe it will come down to the line "as the mask used by this effect effectively occupies this slot".
Does this use a physical item or is the mask created when the Feat is taken. Is it a Sp, Su or Ex? Also does it say that the mask, if physical, has to be non-magical?
The bits from "Nameless One" that talk about the mask say
You perform an 8-hour ritual that requires the expenditure of 200 gp for rare oils, incense, and creation of a special mask.
At the ritual’s conclusion, you must don the mask created for the ritual, the appearance of which is evocative of your title.
While benefiting from this feat, you cannot wear any magic items in the head slot, as the mask used by this effect effectively occupies this slot (though this benefit is not magical for the purpose
of dispel magic and other effects).
I'm fairly certain that the Bonded Mask arcane discovery certainly works with this ritual mask as its only requirements are a mask that occupies the head slot. What I'm not certain about is if the mask created by the Nameless One ritual can ALSO be a magical mask such as the Ritual Mask for Orc Witch archetype.