Mindchemist - Knowing about everything with (Kirin) style!


Advice

Liberty's Edge

So I have this idea about a character with super high knowledge skills.
There isn't a must for having max ranks in every one of them, but still being able to roll for them with a high result.

My next goal for that character is, that he should be quite okay in combat.
You could always be a full caster with high knowledge - like Wizard into Loremaster - and your full caster progression will do the trick. But I decided that to be boring this time.

An obvious attempt for high knowledge skills is the Mindchemist, who can buff INT with cognaton and also apply his INT-mod one additional time to all knowledge skills.
Having max INT isn't even bad with the bomb class feature.

So I started thinking about the concept. At first, what can raise your skills more:
- Breadth of Experience (so we gonna take an Elf)
- Variant Multiclassing Bard (mainly for bardic knowledge of course, but Inspire Courage is nice to have, so is Versatile Performance used with INT via Clever Wordplay Trait)
- Deific Obedience Irori (classic way to improve Knowledge skills)

Kirin Style will improve your Knowledge checks to identify monsters and stuff, while Kirin Strike will give you INT to damage for a swift action.
What you can do now is: Use move as a swift action and identify monster, then throw a bomb and use Kirin Strike. You now have triple INT-mod on your Bomb, which should hurt.
When you are out of bombs, Improved Unarmed Strikes with an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists + Kirin Strike can still do the job. Meanwhile Inspire Courage also works great with that concept.

Being short on feat is the real problem here. So it will get online kinda late.

Any ideas to improve the knowledge checks any futher, making the char even better in combat, getting a few feats faster than normal or having some flavour advices?
Thanks for the input!


I'll beat the guy to the punch and say that "Kirin style is a trap"
Because of the way it works.
1st round you use a swift to go into Kirin style.
2nd round you use a swift to identify the creature.
3rd round you use a swift to get damage.

If the target dies repeat round 2.

You can't "convert" your Move action to a swift action to do this faster.

it's probably better for you to trade all those feats for extra bombs if you're worried about having something to do in combat.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

It has also been said that typeless bonuses from a stat are considered same source and do not stack by the devs (ruled because of charisma-stacking builds).

So unless those Int bonuses are typed and all different, no stacking them.

Liberty's Edge

Chess Pwn wrote:

I'll beat the guy to the punch and say that "Kirin style is a trap"

Because of the way it works.
1st round you use a swift to go into Kirin style.
2nd round you use a swift to identify the creature.
3rd round you use a swift to get damage.

If the target dies repeat round 2.

You can't "convert" your Move action to a swift action to do this faster.

it's probably better for you to trade all those feats for extra bombs if you're worried about having something to do in combat.

Never realized that you can't convert move into swift :/

Probably has been a house rule for us then.
That allowed it would be okay. First round Inspire Courage, Kirin Style and analyse. Second round bomb and Kirin Strike.

Aelryinth wrote:

It has also been said that typeless bonuses from a stat are considered same source and do not stack by the devs (ruled because of charisma-stacking builds).

So unless those Int bonuses are typed and all different, no stacking them.

I know about that rule, but had in mind, that Kirin Strike damage is insight... but well it's not - only the bonus to knowledge was.

This blows my concept then I guess.

------------------------------------------------------------

Any other ideas for a knowledge focused dude, where his knowledge would be an aspect for his fighting style?
I mean there is always the option for Wizard into Loremaster...

Maybe Empiricist Investigator could be an option? Possibly going into Evangelist. Not sure about his combat potential, though.

Liberty's Edge

Chess Pwn wrote:
You can't "convert" your Move action to a swift action to do this faster.

Where is this rule?


@CN_Minus: I think it's more that there's no rule explicitly allowing such action conversion, which means it's not allowed by the RAW. Much in the same way as there's nowhere stated that you can't convert an attack of opportunity into a 5-foot step (or vice versa), but that's also not allowed by the rules-as-written. The RAW doesn't tell you all the things you cannot do. Instead it, tells you all the things you can do and then, by and large, everything else falls into the former category, as subject to common sense and GM discretion, of course. That's my understanding of how it works, anyway.

That being said, I think allowing the conversion of move actions into swift actions, as a house rule, could have unfortunate unforeseen consequences. Swift actions are sometimes more comparable to standard actions in how powerful they can be, and so in quite a few instances it would not be a fair trade.

Cheers,
- Gears


In 3.5 there was a feat called Knowledge Devotion. It gave you bonuses to attack and damage rolls against one creature based on the result of your knowledge check to identify it.


Mindchemist is a bomb throwing combatant. You're bombs do more damage and have higher DC's because of your int. grab an extra bomb feat if you need more.

Empiricist Investigator is your melee combatant. Being melee, melee stats are very important, so you're int wont be as high for this character, but you get a base of 6 skills and big bonuses to skills. You'll go either str based or Dex based for your damage, dex is often good to dip 1 lv of inspired swashbuckler.

You could also go Psychic Searcher lore Oracle to make lots of skills work off of charisma. Gets inspiration like an Investigator. Also a full 9th level divine caster.

Inquisitors know everything there is about monsters they are fighting.

Bards get bonuses to knowledge skills, are built similar to the investigator.

*As a note, I'm playing an investigator right now and he's awesome. At lv4 with 1 rank in a knowledge I had a +12 +1d6. And I've found that I most hard knowledge checks are at DC 25, so having much more than that hasn't been useful.

Scarab Sages

Chess Pwn wrote:

I'll beat the guy to the punch and say that "Kirin style is a trap"

Because of the way it works.
1st round you use a swift to go into Kirin style.
2nd round you use a swift to identify the creature.
3rd round you use a swift to get damage.

If the target dies repeat round 2.

You can't "convert" your Move action to a swift action to do this faster.

it's probably better for you to trade all those feats for extra bombs if you're worried about having something to do in combat.

As the guy that always says this, thanks. It really is a terrible waste of feats in practice.


CN_Minus wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
You can't "convert" your Move action to a swift action to do this faster.
Where is this rule?

The rule that allows it is in 4th and 5th edition D&D. It didn't exist in 3rd/3.5 Edition D&D and doesn't in exist in Pathfinder.

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