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DC Comics To Relaunch Everything


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1,051 to 1,100 of 1,167 << first < prev | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | next > last >>

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
thejeff wrote:
I haven't followed anything Lantern related since maybe the early 90s and have long thought the whole "Emotional Spectrum" and multiple Lantern Corps was one of the stupidest ideas ever to come out of DC. As well as being an annoying retcon.

Agreed. And then they tacked on Black and White Lanterns. Now with METAL I'm half expecting Dark Metalmen Lanterns sport rings wielding Platinum, Gold, Iron, Mercury and Tin energy.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Damon Griffin wrote:
thejeff wrote:
I haven't followed anything Lantern related since maybe the early 90s and have long thought the whole "Emotional Spectrum" and multiple Lantern Corps was one of the stupidest ideas ever to come out of DC. As well as being an annoying retcon.
Agreed. And then they tacked on Black and White Lanterns. Now with METAL I'm half expecting Dark Metalmen Lanterns sport rings wielding Platinum, Gold, Iron, Mercury and Tin energy.

Ooh, if they go from Chromatic to Metallic Lanterns, can it be long before we have psychic Gemstone Lanterns? :)


Set,

I thought we already did with Amethyst and her world...


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Set,

I thought we already did with Amethyst and her world...

I want that back so hard. So hard.

That, and a really GOOD Warlord reboot. I know Grell essentially ended it with his last run, but gosh darn it, I love The Warlord so much.

And Set, I have been pushing that Courage/Fear thing for years. Like, it's always been that the ring is powered by the user's willpower - but it's their ability to overcome great fear, their courage, that gives them the ability to control it.


I liked amethyst. And the last warlord run. Interesting books.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Set wrote:

I just remember after it happened, with the Red Rage Lanterns and the angry-housecat-what-vomits-acid-blood and whatever, there was a Red Hulk introduced over at Marvel, and I was just waiting for the Hulk Spectrum to be introduced, with the Yellow Fear Hulk and the Purple Love Hulk. :)

As for the Emotional Spectrum, I kind of wish they'd further redefined 'willpower' as 'courage,' and made the whole 'Green vs. Yellow' thing a contrast between Bravery and Fear. Some 'spectral oppositions,' like Love vs. Hate or Hope vs. Despair or Rage vs. Serenity would have felt more on-them to me than 'Avarice' and 'Willpower' being considered emotions on the 'emotional spectrum' alongside Fear and Love and Anger.

Hal had been, in the past, described less as having supreme willpower as being 'fearless,' and after the Parallax thing, pretty must lost the uber-willpower title anyway, as the first Lantern in many millennia to get mindjobbed the way he did.

On the upside, one thing I've always loved about the Green Lanterns in general is that DC has unapologetically got dozens of characters running around with pretty much the same costume, the same codename and the same power set, and there's no big deal attached to it, unlike say, multiple people going by the name of Captain America or Spider-Man or Wolverine, over at Marvel, which causes people to lose their minds. It's not the name, the costume or the powers that make the character, and Kyle Rayner is very different than John Stewart, for instance, and that's very cool.

The whole Green Lantern Corps started out as one Lantern per sector (3600 sectors, except for sector 666 which has no life in it thanks to the Manhunters).

Each Lantern has to be a native of one of the planets in that sector.
Later, because there was too much to do after the Paralax debacle, the Guardians doubled the Corps so there were now 2 Lanterns per sector.
So how come there are 6 people from Earth with Rings?
What makes Earth so special?
I know it is the birthplace of the White Lantern Entity, but that should not figure into it.
Just because Hal and John think someone needs to be on Earth while they and Guy and Kyle gallivant off in space?

Speaking of Sector 666, how come no Lantern is allowed in there?
If no Lantern patrols it, wouldn't that make it the perfect place for all the criminal elements in the galaxy to hide out?
Or a staging point for an invasion army?

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
jemstone wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Set,

I thought we already did with Amethyst and her world...

I want that back so hard. So hard.

That, and a really GOOD Warlord reboot. I know Grell essentially ended it with his last run, but gosh darn it, I love The Warlord so much.

And Set, I have been pushing that Courage/Fear thing for years. Like, it's always been that the ring is powered by the user's willpower - but it's their ability to overcome great fear, their courage, that gives them the ability to control it.

I got into Warlord very late, so I only saw it as it was winding down toward Crisis, but I liked what I saw. Wasn't too impressed with the series they did in 2006 and 2008.

I read the original 12 part Amethyst and the series that followed. They were all pretty good, with the exception of Sword and Sorcery.


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Amethyst has such great potential as an adventure series. Just wish they could find a creative team that would do it justice.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The 1975 Warlord is the one true Warlord. All others are pale imitations.

We will now read from the Book of DC First Issue Special No. 8...


Only the weird "dark and gritty" reboot (which thankfully crashed and burned a horrible screaming death, may it ever rot in obscurity) wasn't penned by Mike Grell, so I'd contend that they're all (save the one we don't talk about) the "true" Warlord.

Both my other favorite adventure series - Arion: Lord Of Atlantis and Amethyst: Princess Of The Gemworld started off as endcaps on The Warlord, so they all have fond places in my heart.

Now that I think about it, didn't Arak: Son Of Thunder start in Warlord as well? Was Barren Earth in Warlord or Arion?

I MUST PERUSE MY ARCHIVES.


Damon Griffin wrote:

The 1975 Warlord is the one true Warlord. All others are pale imitations.

We will now read from the Book of DC First Issue Special No. 8...

*sigh*


1 person marked this as a favorite.
jemstone wrote:

Only the weird "dark and gritty" reboot (which thankfully crashed and burned a horrible screaming death, may it ever rot in obscurity) wasn't penned by Mike Grell, so I'd contend that they're all (save the one we don't talk about) the "true" Warlord.

Both my other favorite adventure series - Arion: Lord Of Atlantis and Amethyst: Princess Of The Gemworld started off as endcaps on The Warlord, so they all have fond places in my heart.

Now that I think about it, didn't Arak: Son Of Thunder start in Warlord as well? Was Barren Earth in Warlord or Arion?

I MUST PERUSE MY ARCHIVES.

the dark and gritty one I kinda liked. Warlord overall has too much of a white guy saving savages aesthetic to me for me to get overly into it. But i appreciate the John Carter-ness of it all. I really liked what I saw in justice league, that was a good update.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
jemstone wrote:

Only the weird "dark and gritty" reboot (which thankfully crashed and burned a horrible screaming death, may it ever rot in obscurity) wasn't penned by Mike Grell, so I'd contend that they're all (save the one we don't talk about) the "true" Warlord.

Both my other favorite adventure series - Arion: Lord Of Atlantis and Amethyst: Princess Of The Gemworld started off as endcaps on The Warlord, so they all have fond places in my heart.

Now that I think about it, didn't Arak: Son Of Thunder start in Warlord as well? Was Barren Earth in Warlord or Arion?

I MUST PERUSE MY ARCHIVES.

Forgot about Arion.

Love the series - wasn't too thrilled with what they did to him post Crisis.
Don't remember reading him in Warlord, so I must have started reading it just after that.
Maybe I started reading Warlord because they referenced stories in Arion's book.

Amethyst had an 8 page preview insert in Legion of Super Heroes then started her own limited series shortly thereafter.


Freehold DM wrote:
the dark and gritty one I kinda liked.

Really? Even the whole "it was all a secret government conspiracy the whole time" thing?

I dunno. I found it disjointed and rushed. Some of the concepts weren't too bad, though. I'll give you that.

Freehold DM wrote:
Warlord overall has too much of a white guy saving savages aesthetic to me for me to get overly into it. But i appreciate the John Carter-ness of it all. I really liked what I saw in justice league, that was a good update.

You'll get no arguments from me about the Civilized Man Vs. Savages trope. Granted, almost everyone in that sun-baked jungle-world was uncharacteristically pale-skinned. I know most of why Grell did it the way he did (based on reactions to editorial pressures at the time and the fact that he pretty clearly didn't want to go the full "the Skartaris inhabitants are dark skinned and Morgan is clearly their White Savior" route, and let's not forget the ration of crap he got when he made Machiste and Mariah lovers...), but I give him credit for showing that Morgan spent most of his early years in Skartaris running around like a damned fool imbecile, shooting or stabbing anything he didn't understand, and being forced to listen to the wisest and toughest people around: who just happened to be women and people of color.

If I'm being honest, it was Grell's work that got me interested in Burroughs, and to continue to be honest, I find that Grell improved on Burroughs in a good many ways.

Charles Scholz wrote:

Forgot about Arion.

Love the series - wasn't too thrilled with what they did to him post Crisis.
Don't remember reading him in Warlord, so I must have started reading it just after that.
Maybe I started reading Warlord because they referenced stories in Arion's book.

Amethyst had an 8 page preview insert in Legion of Super Heroes then started her own limited series shortly thereafter.

I was always happy with the little fiddly bits of continuity surrounding Atlantis in those titles - specifically where the overlapping DC multiverse was concerned. Arion's Atlantis shared many similarities with Morgan's Atlantis, but weren't exactly the same. Similar enough to share culture, and language, and history, but different enough to stand out as separate.

Spoiler:
Especially as it would be revealed that Morgan's Atlantis was the result of his own full-circle meddling in time to prevent World War 3, and that the resultant temporal anomalies were exactly what caused those subtle differences in the two Atlantis' in the first place.

If I had one big issue with Arion at all, it's that Arion really was the White Savior Reborn trope in full bloom, despite Duursema's clear attempts to make him something other than that.

Dark Archive

Charles Scholz wrote:

Forgot about Arion.

Love the series - wasn't too thrilled with what they did to him post Crisis.

The art for the spellcasting was epic. I loved the geometric forms that would be drawn when he was spellcasting.


I used to doodle those in class all day long, not gonna lie.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Wasn't Power Girl ret-conned to be an heir to Arion, post-Crisis?


For a while, yeah, she was his grand daughter, although that was also itself retconned as well.

Also, can I just say that the current incarnation of Arion - the guy who is vindictive and mean, who for some reason has a mad-on for Superman based on a vision (which Arion should know is never a will-be but a could-be) - is a complete jerk?

Scarab Sages

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Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Like i said, don't like what they did to him post Crisis.


yeah that was nonsensical. Power Girl is clearly Power Girl. Duh.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

They retconned that away by saying it was the fake Arion that told her she was his granddaughter.
That was also during the time when they were still getting organized after Crisis.
They needed a reason for why she was there since Krypton of Earth-2 never existed because there was only 1 Earth at the time.
I was okay with that.
I wish they would have kept that version of reality.
Post Crisis was great all the way to the early 2000's.


Right now I'm just wondering about some other possible retconns that maybe Doctor Manhattan did when no one was looking.


Also wondering how we got this many Dark Matter Batmen and no one thought to bring in Light Matter Bane.


Ok, I was enjoying the whole Dark Metal Batman thing they have going on right up till the Batman: Dawnbreaker issue.

Oh boy:
So tween Bruce Wayne has such indomitable will at 10-12 that he breaks a Power Ring, overrides the safeties and otherwise becomes Super Evil Green Lantern. Within 3 years he is so powerful with his "darkness" ring that he can kill sixish Guardians and a dozen or so Green Lanterns?

Then he .. somehow .. enters the lantern and gets older, maybe, and makes a new costume with questionable headgear right before he gets the job offer from The Batman Who Laughs.

I worry about the Lanterns from his universe. His ring warns him of incoming lanterns when they have already landed and are talking. The Corps has been watching him, apparently, and is upset with him but takes 3 years of him killing, overriding the ring, and creating evil darkness death monsters before wandering over to say something? They landed like they thought he'd just roll over and hand them the ring. These blue guys never learn.

I rolled my eyes so hard I think I broke something, though, about young Bruce being so strong willed that he broke the Power Ring. Bat God indeed.


Not sure it was Bat God so much as "We needed to re-write Brightest Day into a Grim dark book"

Still, I don't mind it because it's all about the Metal.


I think Metal makes apoint of someone always doing the \m/ hand sign every issue


I dunno about THAT but I keep getting the best of BOC from this series.


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I dunno. I'm just tired of Batman being the ultimate character of the DCU, no matter the circumstances, no matter the context.

It's tired and old and while I'll never argue that he's certainly the world's greatest detective, he needs to have weaknesses and he needs to be toned down dramatically, because the same people who say that "Superman is too powerful" are fine with Batman being completely flawless and without weakness.

Yadda yadda off my lawn yadda yadda roof shingles.


Bets on whether or not Catwoman and Batman will actually get married or how long it will last? I reckon it will last as long as Catwoman had a kid before it gets shuffled off somewhere and never talked about again.


Manny,

SO you're saying Helena Wayne is in the works then?

Jem,

eh. I get it but when you have a flawed Batman, people wonder why do we turn in?

Also nice call out roof shingles in White Knight mini-series.


jemstone wrote:

I dunno. I'm just tired of Batman being the ultimate character of the DCU, no matter the circumstances, no matter the context.

It's tired and old and while I'll never argue that he's certainly the world's greatest detective, he needs to have weaknesses and he needs to be toned down dramatically, because the same people who say that "Superman is too powerful" are fine with Batman being completely flawless and without weakness.

Yadda yadda off my lawn yadda yadda roof shingles.

preach it. Batman fanboys kill everything.


And what, Green Lanterns and Flashes don't?

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Jess and Simon are a refreshing take on Green Lantern, just as Kyle was when he took over.
I liked Conner Hawke's Green Arrow when Ollie died.
I liked Flash when Wally took over after Barry died.

I think DC should clean house and retire the old school for the new.
Reduce Batman's presence in the DC Universe. He is getting stale.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Charles Scholz wrote:

Jess and Simon are a refreshing take on Green Lantern, just as Kyle was when he took over.

I liked Conner Hawke's Green Arrow when Ollie died.
I liked Flash when Wally took over after Barry died.

I think DC should clean house and retire the old school for the new.
Reduce Batman's presence in the DC Universe. He is getting stale.

I'm a big fan of legacy characters showing up and taking the reins, from the Teen Titans to Young Justice to the Young All-Stars to Infinity, Inc. but it seems to be an uphill slog against nostalgia. Geoff Johns shows up and wants to bring back all the old characters he read about when he was a kid (Barry, Hal, etc.), and anyone new, even if they spent decades there, and are hardly 'new,' gets shoved back to the sidelines.

I get that this is what is selling, the old familiar IP, and it would be crazy (and financially suicidal) for DC to get write off Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc. in favor of new legacy characters, but I wants what I wants, and it's growth and change, not 'Batman vs. Joker, round 72638' or 'Darkseid attacks Earth and six of the same League founders as beat him the last five times must assemble for the first time ever to stop him!'

Even characters that I'm not tired of, like the Teen Titans or Legion of Super-Heroes (who are certainly not spring chickens) fall into repetitive storylines. Oh no, Trigon is invading our dimension, again. It's the Fatal Five, again.

Same for Marvel, only substitute Teen Titans, Young Justice, etc. for Young Avengers, New X-Men, etc. and Darkseid attacking Earth for Thanos and something to do with Infinity Stones. Been there. Done that. Several times...

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
jemstone wrote:

are fine with Batman being completely flawless and without weakness.

I would agree with you if Batman was presented as flawless and without weakness in the comics. Only that he isn't, at least not in the comics I read.


Set wrote:
Charles Scholz wrote:

Jess and Simon are a refreshing take on Green Lantern, just as Kyle was when he took over.

I liked Conner Hawke's Green Arrow when Ollie died.
I liked Flash when Wally took over after Barry died.

I think DC should clean house and retire the old school for the new.
Reduce Batman's presence in the DC Universe. He is getting stale.

I'm a big fan of legacy characters showing up and taking the reins, from the Teen Titans to Young Justice to the Young All-Stars to Infinity, Inc. but it seems to be an uphill slog against nostalgia. Geoff Johns shows up and wants to bring back all the old characters he read about when he was a kid (Barry, Hal, etc.), and anyone new, even if they spent decades there, and are hardly 'new,' gets shoved back to the sidelines.

I get that this is what is selling, the old familiar IP, and it would be crazy (and financially suicidal) for DC to get write off Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc. in favor of new legacy characters, but I wants what I wants, and it's growth and change, not 'Batman vs. Joker, round 72638' or 'Darkseid attacks Earth and six of the same League founders as beat him the last five times must assemble for the first time ever to stop him!'

And I think that's the sticking point. It's not that there aren't new characters and new teams out there. There are legacy characters and there are completely new characters.

But the old favorites keep selling.
If you don't like them, don't buy them. Don't buy the big events that feature all the big name characters. Check out the new quirky characters or the legacy characters. Or read non-big two titles.


Set,

Darkseid and Thanos are two completely different mindsets not to mention the level of threat they present is different.

But I get what you're saying.


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WormysQueue wrote:
jemstone wrote:

are fine with Batman being completely flawless and without weakness.

I would agree with you if Batman was presented as flawless and without weakness in the comics. Only that he isn't, at least not in the comics I read.

The moment that Batman was presented as always having a contingency, for every possible event, in every possible circumstance, and every possible outcome of his actions or anyone else's, he crossed the line into the same level of all-powerful, unbeatable wankery that people accuse Superman of having.

Batman has basically reached the tier of "well, better call Spider-Man," only for the DCU.

Whereas anyone who gets past The Avengers, The Guardians Of The Galaxy, The X-Men, The Fantastic Four and every other top-tier hero team in the MCU eventually gets beaten down by Spider-Man, so too does Batman beat anything that comes at him.

Only with fewer quips and one-liners.

I love Batman as a character, but he has outgrown his role in the DCU and is essentially the ultimate failsafe for the rest of the Justice League, which he just shouldn't be.

And Set, I'd like to read your organization's literature, if you've got any on you.


No that's Squirrel Girl that you call when the rest of the Marvel Comics super teams fail.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

She's who you call when not even Spidey can save the day, you are correct there.


I'm trying to remember the last time that actually happened. I've missed most of the big events, but it really isn't something I remember seeing. Maybe Spider-man beating in his titles a villain who'd previously challenged one of the big teams, but being called in to save the day?


Well there was him beating up Morlun who almost ate Wakanda...


Spiderman also beat up Firelord,a former herald of Galactus


Yeah but Squirrel Girl beat HIS boss.


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MannyGoblin wrote:
Spiderman also beat up Firelord,a former herald of Galactus

In a truly wonderful brawl, ending with Spidey complaining to the Avengers: "What kept you guys? He could've killed me!"

It's not quite the same as the top teams calling in Spider-man to save the day. Every hero gets to beat up villains out of their weight class every once in a while. Spidey has done it often because he's had more chances - multiple titles for decades.


Squirrel Girl ALWAYS punches above her weight class...and WINS!


Only if the win is off panel or in the shadows tho.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
thejeff wrote:
MannyGoblin wrote:
Spiderman also beat up Firelord,a former herald of Galactus

In a truly wonderful brawl, ending with Spidey complaining to the Avengers: "What kept you guys? He could've killed me!"

It's not quite the same as the top teams calling in Spider-man to save the day. Every hero gets to beat up villains out of their weight class every once in a while. Spidey has done it often because he's had more chances - multiple titles for decades.

Wasn't he wearing the Symbiot when he beat Firelord?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yes, he was. Spidey won his fight against Firelord...while wearing the symbiote that isn't too fond of fire (though he didn't know he was wearing a symbiote, let alone its fire and sonic issues).


Charles Scholz wrote:
thejeff wrote:
MannyGoblin wrote:
Spiderman also beat up Firelord,a former herald of Galactus

In a truly wonderful brawl, ending with Spidey complaining to the Avengers: "What kept you guys? He could've killed me!"

It's not quite the same as the top teams calling in Spider-man to save the day. Every hero gets to beat up villains out of their weight class every once in a while. Spidey has done it often because he's had more chances - multiple titles for decades.

Wasn't he wearing the Symbiot when he beat Firelord?

I don't think so. I think that was a regular cloth version of the same design.

Not that the symbiot suit was considered much of a power boost at the time. Convenience more than anything.

Edit: Specifically, he had Reed remove and capture the symbiot in Amazing Spider Man 258 and the Firelord fight was ASM 269-270.

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