Neongelion |
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Biggest changes I made pertain to Numeria and the ship that crashed into it.
First off, the Rain of Stars happened 900 years ago, not 9000 years ago. Androffa is not "Golarion 2.0" as I call it, ie a fantasy setting where Golarion's deities are worshiped with a sprinkling of elves and dwarves.
The "Shoal" were a group of godlike entities that ascended to a higher plane purely by technological means. Both the Androffan humans and androids were created by them for some unknown reason. It's also equally unknown why the Shoal decided to attack Androffa and devastate the planet.
More Golarion-relevant stuff:
-Worship of Sarenrae is outlawed in Taldor. In practice, some towns are more tolerant of it, but they're the exception.
-Aroden was a Veiled Master. What this means for the deities that ascended via the Starstone is not known, but it's deeply unsettling to those who know the truth.
-Anastasia rules Irrisen.
The Beardinator |
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I've recently adapted the "Celestial Hebdomad" for use in my Savage Tide campaign. I've tweaked them a bit in that the Seven Paragon Angels represent the main forms of Good. Two are CG, two are NG, and two are LG. The seventh, (Zaphkiel), is the representation of the purest GOOD. I did this because I'm tired of Pathfinder's goodly gods being "Good with a shade of Darkness". I want my Goodly gods to be Good and reliable, not one step away from being Evil.
Goth Guru |
I've recently adapted the "Celestial Hebdomad" for use in my Savage Tide campaign. I've tweaked them a bit in that the Seven Paragon Angels represent the main forms of Good. Two are CG, two are NG, and two are LG. The seventh, (Zaphkiel), is the representation of the purest GOOD. I did this because I'm tired of Pathfinder's goodly gods being "Good with a shade of Darkness". I want my Goodly gods to be Good and reliable, not one step away from being Evil.
In my Golorion, Aroden was not the god of just people. He was the god of people against monsters. These other flawed gods kept trying to destroy him. The angels follow the Paragons first, the flawed deities second. For example, if reenacting Sodom and Gomorrah, The angels would warn all the innocents to leave before the event.
Orthos |
I did this because I'm tired of Pathfinder's goodly gods being "Good with a shade of Darkness". I want my Goodly gods to be Good and reliable, not one step away from being Evil.
Yeah, I have to admit I wasn't ever really impressed with most of Golarion's good or good-ish deities. I liked Sarenrae and Iomedae when they were first revealed, but the more we learn about them and their mortal followers, the less I like them.
Admittedly, I don't play in Golarion, hence why I haven't pitched in on this thread before (though it's been interesting to read everyone's alterations and input), but I wanted to second this one as it's not a sentiment I see expressed here often.
RedRobe |
My Androffa is a planet in the Star Wars universe, and Divinity was the lead ship used in a second attempt at an Outbound Flight expedition. The expedition was successful in that it reached another galaxy through a combination of wormhole manipulation and hyperdrive technology, but never made it back to the Star Wars galaxy to report it's findings.
Greylurker |
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I did create fluff for Arcane magic. Fluff helps me explain things plus it gives me visuals to work with. Spells are made from threads of arcane energy drawn from the Inner Planes and the Far Realms. Each Spell is made from 1 to 9 threads (IE: Spell Level) and a Wizard prepares his spells by tying the threads off in specific patterns using a Ritual Circle and then ties all of his threads to his Arcane Bond item or filters them through a Familiar. When it comes time to cast them he fills in the lychpins of the ritual and unravels the threads.
With detect magic you can see how many threads a wizard has bound (and ID his Arcane Bond item) but it requires the full 3 rounds of concentration. It's not entierly useful for getting specifics except on Low level wizards ("He has three single threads bound to his Ring" vs. "He has more threads than you can count all bound in complex patterns to his staff")
Metamagic causes threads to be braided or noted in unusual ways.
Visually Spellcasting causes threads to become visible as energy floods through them. These visual (colors and numbers of threads) plus the spoken lynchpins and geasures are how spellcasters identify what is being cast at them.
EX: Three Red Threads drawn in a circle and then collapsing into a small sphere = Fireball
Goth Guru |
I did create fluff for Arcane magic. Fluff helps me explain things plus it gives me visuals to work with. Spells are made from threads of arcane energy drawn from the Inner Planes and the Far Realms. Each Spell is made from 1 to 9 threads (IE: Spell Level) and a Wizard prepares his spells by tying the threads off in specific patterns using a Ritual Circle and then ties all of his threads to his Arcane Bond item or filters them through a Familiar. When it comes time to cast them he fills in the lychpins of the ritual and unravels the threads.
With detect magic you can see how many threads a wizard has bound (and ID his Arcane Bond item) but it requires the full 3 rounds of concentration. It's not entierly useful for getting specifics except on Low level wizards ("He has three single threads bound to his Ring" vs. "He has more threads than you can count all bound in complex patterns to his staff")
Metamagic causes threads to be braided or noted in unusual ways.
Visually Spellcasting causes threads to become visible as energy floods through them. These visual (colors and numbers of threads) plus the spoken lynchpins and geasures are how spellcasters identify what is being cast at them.
EX: Three Red Threads drawn in a circle and then collapsing into a small sphere = Fireball
Do they draw a ritual circle each time or is the circle part of the mental engram?
Rub-Eta |
I've added a few of our earlier characters to our later games as legendary heros. I also happen to like Sarenrae, so I often implement worshipers of her faith in my games. Though my players are getting tired of it, so I'm switching deity for a while.
I also made Magnimar a very corrupt city in out RotRL game, later when I started playing in the same campaign I made my Wizard with the motivation to fix that problem.
We didn't finish that game but the one I'm running now is assuming that a new world-wide guild of mages has risen. They've started distributing liberary golems (a librarian that can summon books from some of the members' large collections of books, kinda like a Wizard internet) across the entire world to increase the access of knowledge to common folk and get more people intrested in magic, hence growing the guild. It's said to have been started by a young Wizard who's gained access to ancient knowledge which allowed him to preform wonders and is now leading Varisia to a golden age while also govering this new guild.
Greylurker |
Greylurker wrote:Do they draw a ritual circle each time or is the circle part of the mental engram?I did create fluff for Arcane magic. Fluff helps me explain things plus it gives me visuals to work with. Spells are made from threads of arcane energy drawn from the Inner Planes and the Far Realms. Each Spell is made from 1 to 9 threads (IE: Spell Level) and a Wizard prepares his spells by tying the threads off in specific patterns using a Ritual Circle and then ties all of his threads to his Arcane Bond item or filters them through a Familiar. When it comes time to cast them he fills in the lychpins of the ritual and unravels the threads.
With detect magic you can see how many threads a wizard has bound (and ID his Arcane Bond item) but it requires the full 3 rounds of concentration. It's not entierly useful for getting specifics except on Low level wizards ("He has three single threads bound to his Ring" vs. "He has more threads than you can count all bound in complex patterns to his staff")
Metamagic causes threads to be braided or noted in unusual ways.
Visually Spellcasting causes threads to become visible as energy floods through them. These visual (colors and numbers of threads) plus the spoken lynchpins and geasures are how spellcasters identify what is being cast at them.
EX: Three Red Threads drawn in a circle and then collapsing into a small sphere = Fireball
Ritual Circles are drawn during preparation. The circle containes the thread patterns for every spell the wizard intends to prepare for the day. The Familiar or Arcane Bond item sits and the center of the circle and at the end of the preparation time the threads and tied to the item/familiar for storage.
The basic idea is that all magic is ritual. Long time consuming ritual, but wizards learned to cut the time down by preparing the spells first, leaving them slightly unfinished and then tying them off.
(Yes I'm stealing a little from the Amber series)
Some wizards have permanent Ritual Circles carved in Silver to cut down their preparation time but at a cost of those circles being fixed to a specific set of spells.
Players might find such a circle in a dungeon or something and examine it discovering "Ok this guy preps 3 magic missiles, Sleep, Scorching Ray, Blink, Mirror image and a Lightning Bolt"
RDM42 |
Duiker wrote:Steve Geddes wrote:I'd argue that the deliberate obfuscation is a necessary side effect of having good mysteries though. You can't write a good mystery without the author knowing who the killer is (to just go with the metaphor) because otherwise any clues and evidence may or may not actually be pointing at the killer. Paizo saying they know what happened to Aroden is not them being frustrating, it's them assuring us that yes, the mysteries are not random, because they do know what they're actually pointing to.phantom1592 wrote:For that matter, inner sea gods, has a list of 'dead gods' that are just as mysterious aren't they?Mystery is inevitable (they can't provide answers for everything). This is more than just an unanswered question though.
It's the deliberate obfuscation that bugs me. This isnt actually a mysterious, unanswered question - it is a central issue of the campaign and has a canonical solution/explanation but that is being kept secret.
I appreciate I'm in a minority, but that approach bothers me a lot (more than the actually-relevant-to-gameplay things, as it happens).
There isn't any need to tell the reader you have an answer worked out. When the answer is "unrevealed at this time", it doesn't bother me. In this case the answer is "It's decided but we're never* going to reveal it".
I appreciate Paizo have reasons for their approach (I can even concede that logically, if they decide to do something I disagree with, it's probably better for the game that they've done it their way). That doesn't lessen the irritation, nor stop me from wishing they hadn't.
Personally? Excise the tech stuff with a scalpel.
There is a good reason to have an answer even if you never tell it. It helps your writers be consistent in their writing if they have a specific answer in mind.
Arnakalar |
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I've made a handful of minor edits and cleanups wherever I've come across setting weirdness I don't like, but I think the main thing of any substance I've tried to do with it is rehabilitate some of the 'monstrous' races by assuming they are actually, you know... people. I think the only one I have handy is orcs:
Millennia ago, the Orcs were natives of the upper reaches of the Darklands, a vast underground realm of darkness and deep magic. They lived there in a mix of clanholds, city states, free realms, and the occasional kingdom; they had very hostile relations, overall, with the dwarves who emerged even MORE millennia ago from deeper in the darklands.
All of that changed about 10kya with earthfall, when the starstone fell and began the age of darkness. Earthfall also had an effect on the Darklands below the surface of Golarion. The orcs, living not too far beneath the surface were devestated, with massive earthquakes causing immense destruction. Entire cities/civilizations were destroyed, the known ways wrecked - But they survived. However, there were other consequences of Earthfall. A remnant of the elvish empires on the surface descended into the darklands (to later become the drow) - these elves possessed incredibly powerful wizardry, and began a war of conquest, claiming a large swath of the underground realm. This was the first of many conflicts with mortal wizards that would shape the orcs for thousands of years. At the same time, the dwarves took earthfall as a sign from their gods and began what became known as 'the quest for the sky' - The majority of the dwarven race turned to a crusade to press up to the surface lands, straight through the beleaguered orcs. Caught between the elves and the dwarves, there was an attempt to completely eradicate the orcs that nearly succeeded.
The gods, however, intervened. Amongst whatever else, an elvish goddess Sezelrian, saw the attempted elven genocide of the orcs and intervened. She was a god of fire, of magic, and of the spirit, who sacrificed herself and gave a tiny fragment of herself to each orc - one result was that orcs have a significantly higher incidence of 'natural magic'- oracles and sorcerers, primarily. The end result is that the orc peoples fractured, some being pushed/escaping deeper into the darklands, and some exploding up to the surface, just ahead of the dwarves. The orcs, like the dwarves, managed to thrive in the age of darkness, at least at first. Though in many places they would eventually find equilibrium (that they have mostly never found with the dwarves), the orcs warred immensely with many groups of humans, including the Shadow Lords and servants of Zon-Kulthon. Roughly a thousand years later, still during the age of darkness, the orcs of Belkzen were nearly destroyed again when the last Thessalonians tried to resurrect/claim the power of the runelords. The orcs became a conquered & occupied people, along with many others, and fought a guerrilla war for hundreds of years. Along with the people who would become the shoanti (themselves ex-slaves of the original thassilonians) and the giants, they overthrew and destroyed the second thassilionian empire(which most humans (and many orcs, to be fair) don't remember even happened).
The chief god that orcs (amongst others, of course) worship, the one who's said to have created the orcs, is One-Eye. He is a god of sacrifice and exchange, struggle and survival - Blood for Victory, War for Spoils, Life for Death, and Risk for Glory. He advocates a bloody way, but for the sake of that which blood brings. He is a god of trials, willpower, hard won and pyrrhic victories. He has harsh relationships with the Fey God, due to their removal from the cycle of loss. While he is not a loving god, he is a fairly consistent one - if you didn't get what you wanted, it was because your will and means to sacrifice was not great enough.
In modern-day Varisia/Avistan, Orcs live in real numbers primarily on the distant Storval plataeu and the mindspin mountains, a harsh and unforgiving steppes-land with little of the richness of the lowlands. The majority of these orcs live in The Holds, also called the clanholds and the Hold of Belkzen. The orcs of the region see themselves as a constantly beset, but triumphant people - beyond this the holds are a loosely affiliated set of clans, bound by kin-bond, blood, and necessity. Things are mostly peaceful within the holds, and outside of it as for the last two hundred years, there has been a pretty serious culture of territorial isolationism. The other large population of orcs are the orcish and half-orcish Shoanti, the other people of the plataeu. Orcish society is as complex as any, with a very strong vein of duty, and a sense both that reality is impossibly hard, and that we can and will be harder - this is exemplified by the ritual of One-Eye's Blessing, a rite of passage that every young orc in the holds undergoes. It's a harsh, 'survive in the wilderness' sort of thing, with those same themes of sacrifice and will.
Those that pass become adults and get a full say in the goings on in family and clanhold (the word for adult is literally "voiced" or "a voice to listen to"). At the same time they love their family (especially the family-you-choose), stories, poems, song, and music, you name it. They are often mischaracterized as 'ancestor worshipers' - while this is incorrect, they do deeply revere those that came before them - and this gives them very real magic. It's believed that the shoanti taught the orcs to commune with, be guided by, and channel the spirits of the dead. Orcs have a very real suspicion and scorn for 'learned magicians' - especially wizards by a wide margin, but also others, such as clerics. It is felt that those who seek out magical power of their own accord are dangerous, at best, evil at worst - always missing the understanding that power has costs, and all too frequently exacts that cost from others. At the same time, it is considered deeply disrespectful to the sacrifice of the gods in giving the orcs natural magic.
Within orcish culture, magic is a deep gift, and a responsibility that is bestowed - Symbolized by the death of the god to gift that magic to the orcs and save them. To lack that gift, and then seek to take it and claim it as your own right is anathema, or at least frowned upon. Orcish Shoanti usually follow the ways of their own people, but sometimes spend a time amongst the clanholds, gain an understanding of the orcs there, and even take one eye's blessing, etc.
The Beardinator |
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The Beardinator wrote:I did this because I'm tired of Pathfinder's goodly gods being "Good with a shade of Darkness". I want my Goodly gods to be Good and reliable, not one step away from being Evil.Yeah, I have to admit I wasn't ever really impressed with most of Golarion's good or good-ish deities. I liked Sarenrae and Iomedae when they were first revealed, but the more we learn about them and their mortal followers, the less I like them.
Admittedly, I don't play in Golarion, hence why I haven't pitched in on this thread before (though it's been interesting to read everyone's alterations and input), but I wanted to second this one as it's not a sentiment I see expressed here often.
I like Sarenrae. Iomedae is way too rigid for me. I loved the Forgotten Realms gods. To me, they seemed to make sense. Granted, you had a god/goddess for every day of the year, the gods seemed to fit.
Goth Guru |
Dragon Slayer or witchhunter can be divisive classes.
In conventions there were modules where we had to talk to someones special foe to the point I considered adding "Ranger leash" to my character's equipment list.
If favored enemies are going to make you fight a party member or important NPCs, rethink your character concept.
Deranged_Maniac_Ben |
Cyrad wrote:Steve Geddes wrote:I think it was a shrewd decision, leaving the GM to figure it out themselves.Brother Fen wrote:What happened to Aroden and why?The leaving this unanswered is my one major gripe with Paizo's choices around Golarion. The "preservation of mystery" is a real negative for me.
Because I'll never know the true answer, Aroden's faith will never feature significantly in my campaigns - so I always feel like I'm missing out on a real, significant part of the world history.
There's obviously many DMs who like it. However, it's a pet hate of mine - I don't like being told "There's this mystery which definitely has a canonical answer, but we're not going to tell you what it is". If they'd decided to leave it an open question or to keep the fact that there is an answer a secret, it wouldn't bother me.
I don't agree with Steve Geddes on much, but I agree on this issue. I actually don't mind "permanent mysteries" (I like them, in fact). What I am bothered by is when the author(s) says that it isn't a mystery and they do have an answer, but will never reveal it.
On a practical level of running a campaign, it actually makes no difference whatsoever. For me, anyhow, it's a purely emotional reaction. I've made the Mourning a focus of a couple campaigns before. However, if Keith Baker had said publicly "I know exactly how/why the Mourning happened, why it only affected Cyre, and whether/how it could happen again, but I won't tell you, na na na na!", then I'd be a lot less inclined to use it again. The same goes for Cyrad's example of the Lady of Pain: David Cook (nor any other current or former WotC employee) has never said that he knows exactly what the Lady of Pain's powers/goals/origins are but won't tell us. Either there is no answer, or there is an answer but the authors haven't said, and aren't "taunting" us with it.Again, I emphasize that it is purely an emotional reaction: were David Cook to reveal that he had a complete stat-block for the Lady of Pain but refused to share it, there'd be nothing stopping me from using her just the same as I would if I didn't know she had an official stat-block. I feel the same way about plays and novels. I don't mind that we never find out what the Ultimate Question is (or that knowing both the Ultimate Question and the Answer would cause them to cancel out (I'm discounting the 42 Puzzle, since Adams pretty clearly intended it as a joke). I probably would have been bothered if Adams had stated publicly that he did have a Question in mind, but was never going to reveal it.
RedDingo |
It also fills a plot hole as to why the Aboleth, a race of super intelligent creatures, would punish humanity by delivering a rock that turns people into gods.
That might have more to do with the fact that two gods sacrificed their lives to prevent it from killing the world. Before that it might have just been a chunk of space rock with enough juice to kill the planet.
You know how some gods ascend by killing other gods? I think the Starstone became imbued with the essence of Acavna and Amaznen. Or at least Amaznen since technically Acavna's essence is in the Mordant Spire, but it could be that part of it was absorbed by the Starstone. Perhaps that missing piece is why she cannot reach the Boneyard.
Bill Dunn |
I decided as a GM that the reason Aroden died is because the Starstone's effects are temporary. He lost his divinity and either died or got trapped somewhere without his divine powers to get him out. This explains why Pharasma won't say anything (would devastate multiple religions and societies) and why the Starstone Doctrine was wrong (the prophecy foretelling of Aroden's return as a mortal was misinterpreted as his return to the Material Plane). It also fills a plot hole as to why the Aboleth, a race of super intelligent creatures, would punish humanity by delivering a rock that turns people into gods.
I had been thinking of that as a potential answer for Aroden's death as well. I didn't worry about any plot holes, though. Though the aboleth may be super-intelligent, it's hard to control for all unintended consequences.
Bill Dunn |
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I don't agree with Steve Geddes on much, but I agree on this issue. I actually don't mind "permanent mysteries" (I like them, in fact). What I am bothered by is when the author(s) says that it isn't a mystery and they do have an answer, but will never reveal it.
I'm on the flip side of this one. James Jacob's has made it clear that Golarion has a canon that precedes Paizo's publication of it - hence the various changes that have occurred, mostly off the books, when authors have gone in directions different from his vision yet have made it into publications. So of course, there's an answer to the mystery in his version of Golarion.
But by keeping that information out of our hands, that's a key piece in saying "Go run your version of Golarion". Every GM is going to come up with a different answer to the question. Making that decision, or thinking about it even if the GM makes no decision, is when that campaign really crosses the Rubicon, to use a classic reference, and becomes irrevocably different from every other one - including James's.
Seth Dresari |
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My Golarion actually exists in the same "universe" as more "traditional" D&D settings, like Dragonlance, Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms (the inclusion of FR is why I put "universe" in quotes), but the spells that had to be renamed due to copyright were just given more generic names since the events on Golarion happen such a long time after the events of the other campaigns, and as a result the mages who originally invented those spells or magic items have long ago died and been forgotten. Similarly, Golarion has different deities (like Desna) and races (no Yuan-Ti, Marrash or Lupinal Celestials, but the Oriental races have greater abundance) because it is in a different part of the "universe."
Golarion was accidentally seeded with races from other worlds who blended in with the indigenous races as part of colonial expeditions, but then they were cut-off after a multitude of interstellar wars, and regressed significantly in science and technology as a result; losing even more of their progress with the arrival of the Star Stone, and only started being exposed to technology again in small "pockets" in recent history with the Rain of Stars.
Reign of Winter is explained away in a similar fashion; Earth as we know it was Terraformed with just humans and minimal magic to be a sort of "back-up", should humanity approach extinction should they lose their side of the war. This tactic was in place before Golarion got seeded, which is why by the time the Pathfinder Society was established, people on Earth were already experiencing things like the American Revolutionary/Civil Wars, and later World Wars I and II by the time the events of Reign of Winter rolled around.
The Beardinator |
My Golarion actually exists in the same "universe" as more "traditional" D&D settings, like Dragonlance, Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms (the inclusion of FR is why I put "universe" in quotes), but the spells that had to be renamed due to copyright were just given more generic names since the events on Golarion happen such a long time after the events of the other campaigns, and as a result the mages who originally invented those spells or magic items have long ago died and been forgotten. Similarly, Golarion has different deities (like Desna) and races (no Yuan-Ti, Marrash or Lupinal Celestials, but the Oriental races have greater abundance) because it is in a different part of the "universe."
Golarion was accidentally seeded with races from other worlds who blended in with the indigenous races as part of colonial expeditions, but then they were cut-off after a multitude of interstellar wars, and regressed significantly in science and technology as a result; losing even more of their progress with the arrival of the Star Stone, and only started being exposed to technology again in small "pockets" in recent history with the Rain of Stars.
Reign of Winter is explained away in a similar fashion; Earth as we know it was Terraformed with just humans and minimal magic to be a sort of "back-up", should humanity approach extinction should they lose their side of the war. This tactic was in place before Golarion got seeded, which is why by the time the Pathfinder Society was established, people on Earth were already experiencing things like the American Revolutionary/Civil Wars, and later World Wars I and II by the time the events of Reign of Winter rolled around.
Love it! One question. Why no Lupinal Celestials?
ZZTRaider |
Since I'm about to run a campaign focusing on these changes... If the following means anything to you, please skip the spoiler since you may well be in my group.
The undead dragon Yog'niptus. An elven member of the King's Guard named Dolivar, played by Logan. A member of the town guard named Sorren who dislikes magic, played by Scott. A sorcerer tailor named Silverthread, played by BJ, who is hiding his magic from Sorren.
In the beginning, magic was difficult and life was hard. Then a'Ralyae, the first sorceress and the human avatar of magic itself, took pity on the lesser races and sought to ease their existence through magic. She taught people to give magic a voice, movement, and in extreme cases, material essences and focuses. Essentially, she taught everyone to use verbal, somatic, and material/focus components, rather than requiring metamagic to cast even simple spells. Suddenly, the lesser races could compete with their monstrous enemies and society flourished.
(In game, a'Ralyae appears as a human woman who ages at a rate of one year per day, to a maximum apparent age of 21. She has a vulnerability to dispels, antimagic fields, and the like. A direct hit with a dispel makes her a few years younger, and she will resume aging until she returns to 21. Antimagic fields suppress her physical body for a number of rounds based on the field's caster level, at which point the field collapses entirely. Every round she spends suppressed makes her a year younger. In either case, should she lose years to the point of being unborn, the avatar is banished -- her power has been sufficiently dispersed that she cannot maintain form. After a few centuries, she can manifest again at a place of significant magical power, such as a leyline.)
Eventually, a'Ralyae fell in love with the man who would eventually ascend to become Nethys. (Side note: Is there any information about him before his ascension?) Indeed, her insights into her own nature greatly assisted Nethys's magical mastery; without her, he likely never would have fashioned the spell that allowed him to ascend.
As his mind ripped apart, Nethys recognized that his new state -- and her role in it -- would break a'Ralyae's heart. As lucidity fled, he used his magic and omniscience to bring her into proximity of an artifact of Rovagug. A'Ralyae, being magic itself, recognized that part of her own essence had been sealed into the dread artifact. Though the power had been channeled through the Rough Beast, she was still, in a way, responsible for the destructive potential of the item. Thus, she sacrificed herself through an extremely potent Mage's Disjunction effect. It destroyed the artifact, but destroyed her avatar -- and thus her sentience and awareness -- until her powers could sufficiently regather.
At the moment of disjunction, she was particularly vulnerable, as Nethys knew she would. He used the opportunity to muck with her memories, suppressing everything he could about their time together before his ascension. Using magic to alter the essence of magic is not a simple matter, however, and the solution was far from perfect. She lost access to far more than the intended memories, and the effect would slowly unravel.
So, the next time her avatar manifested, Nethys did it again. He found another artifact with the power to annihilate everything, and maneuvered it to come into contact with her. Time and time again, she would fall prey to the same feeling of responsibility and sacrifice herself.
Over time, she started piecing together feelings -- shadows of memory that could not be entirely occluded. She knows that she once had a lover, that Nethys is hiding those memories from her, and that he is abusing her duty to existence itself to keep her from getting too close to the truth. She now despises him for what she only see as the epitome of cruelty and hatred.
Really, I just wanted to play with two things:
1) What sorts of things bring Nethys to lucidity?
2) When the party inevitably finds out the truth behind Nethys's actions, what do they do about it? Do they decide that Nethys is right and a'Ralyae will be happier not knowing the truth? Or is the truth more important than that, despite the pain it would clearly cause?
I'd love any feedback to the idea, though I'd request that it be kept in spoiler tags. I'd hate for any of my players to stumble upon it and ruin some of the mystery for themselves.
WormysQueue |
It's the deliberate obfuscation that bugs me. This isnt actually a mysterious, unanswered question - it is a central issue of the campaign and has a canonical solution/explanation but that is being kept secret.
I appreciate I'm in a minority, but that approach bothers me a lot (more than the actually-relevant-to-gameplay things, as it happens).
Same here. In fact it bugs me so much, that I actually wrote Aroden out of continuity in my own Golarion (which is a bit ironic, given that his death was probably the main selling points to draw me in this setting). Which even more ironically, has led me to stop running things in Golarion.
Yeah, I can invent my own stuff. But as this is the single most important defining event in the history of modern Golarion, this would mean basically to create my own setting. And you know what: That's exactly what I'm doing in the meantime.
Doesn't keep me from enjoying to read (and heavily steal from) the Golarion stuff, but given how I immediately fell in love with Golarion at the setting's beginning, I'm still a bit disappointed that they would decide to deny me information about the one thing that would make it a dealbreaker for me.
RDM42 |
Steve Geddes wrote:It's the deliberate obfuscation that bugs me. This isnt actually a mysterious, unanswered question - it is a central issue of the campaign and has a canonical solution/explanation but that is being kept secret.
I appreciate I'm in a minority, but that approach bothers me a lot (more than the actually-relevant-to-gameplay things, as it happens).
Same here. In fact it bugs me so much, that I actually wrote Aroden out of continuity in my own Golarion (which is a bit ironic, given that his death was probably the main selling points to draw me in this setting). Which even more ironically, has led me to stop running things in Golarion.
Yeah, I can invent my own stuff. But as this is the single most important defining event in the history of modern Golarion, this would mean basically to create my own setting. And you know what: That's exactly what I'm doing in the meantime.
Doesn't keep me from enjoying to read (and heavily steal from) the Golarion stuff, but given how I immediately fell in love with Golarion at the setting's beginning, I'm still a bit disappointed that they would decide to deny me information about the one thing that would make it a dealbreaker for me.
Seriously? Deciding one thing, however important, is 'basically the same as writing your own setting'? Really?
WormysQueue |
I said 'create' not 'write'. Little difference because of all the thousands of pages you have to put down to paper when actually writing a setting.
But basically, yes. The answer to this mystery has a huge impact on how the setting will evolve over time. Like saying the starstone's effect are temporary, for example. This answer informs what campaigns I want to run in this setting, which development nation's might or might not take, how history will progress.
Simply said: it's the core of the setting, and if I have to come up with my own core, I'm probably better of to start with this and create my own thing.
Goth Guru |
I agree. my decisions about Aroden affect everything. Since he put all his essence into the starstone, putting himself on a higher plane, sorta like Yoda in Revenge of the Jedi, the Starstone makes the worthy mortal a true Demigod. No duration. Also, worshipers of Rovagug will try to slay anyone on their way to the tower of the Starstone.
Memory Crystal
This Ioun stone is a clear perfect cube. When a creature sends it spinning around their head they gain a skill or feat, and have a series of memories included. It gives 1 skill point, and skill points from magic items do count towards using the skill. If it is in effect while gaining a level the skill is gained as if a class skill, and that aspect of the crystal is no longer of use to the owner. Each crystal can hold 24 hours of memories, unchanging once made. The memories are first person and not language dependent. This one contains Craft, Crystal growing, and the memories of a Fen growing the crystal and thinking how these crystals are an Ark to future civilizations. Worth a minimum of 10.000GP.
Cursed item: If made by an aberration, it causes madness. They can also be possessed.
Hook: Every civilization at it’s height will try to make books or something to preserve their achievements. The memory crystals are a magical way and most lost civilizations made them. As an ancient artifact, there is a seller’s market for this. A person needs to team up with a spellcaster with Craft wondrous item to make copies.
The new crystal will of course be an artifact and make the user insanely depressed will save DC30. Also the target if you try to use Cure Insanity on someone who failed the save.
WormysQueue |
There is no problem. It's just that without this information, I'm not interested enough in the setting to run a game within. I still buy their stuff (so Paizo doesn't lose money because of this), I still use or at least read it (so I still get value out of the stuff I spend my money for), but I do it to customize other settings more to my liking or to fill the holes in my own setting.
Steve Geddes |
And you guys honestly dont do at least that amount of customization to any setting you use anyway...?
I prefer my customisation to be additive - I try not to change canonical things (in case a player reads a sourcebook and gets fired up about some piece of lore that I decided to change or omit).
RDM42 |
RDM42 wrote:And you guys honestly dont do at least that amount of customization to any setting you use anyway...?I prefer my customisation to be additive - I try not to change canonical things (in case a player reads a sourcebook and gets fired up about some piece of lore that I decided to change or omit).
But if its not in print, it isnt cannon, whatever they say about 'knowing' the answer.
bigrig107 |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I don't actually think the circumstances of Aroden's death are the core of the setting.
I see his death, and absence in this Age of Lost Omens, is the core of the setting. They don't want to tell the story of his death, at least publicly, because it doesn't matter that much to the world itself. Yeah, it'd be nice to figure out what happened to him, but it's the effects of him dying on the world that truly matter. Yeah, that uppity goody two-shoes Iomadade would love to find whatever killed him. Yeah, Pharasma probably knows more than she's letting on. But that's not the focus of the world that's being presented.
Nidal joined the dark side, Cheliax went to Hell, so many other events happened because Aroden didn't show back up.
The actual cause of his death and/or his murderers don't actually matter unless you want them to.
The developers of the game have moved on, historically, from Aroden, focusing on the present and the future.
StabbittyDoom |
There are several changes in our Golarion, some of which are due to house rules on the system, others from campaigns that have played out.
1) Galt no longer has its Final Blades. They were recently destroyed by a group of rebels, only one of whom is believed to still be alive. The revolutionary council is all but disbanded, leaving Galt even more unstable than usual.
2) Alignment is a planar energy thing, not a morality thing. All tieflings are "evil", all aasimar are "good", most races need the Aura class feature to gain an alignment. Some non-divine classes (like Monk) might gain it at higher level. Things that only affect alignment X have half effect on neutrals to compensate.
3) The river kingdoms are joined by an unusually stable monstrous Kingdom known as Terra Dracones, nestled between Brevoy and Pitax. Its leaders are of draconic descent and are believed to be actual dragons (or slowly becoming dragons). Despite having many monstrous races within, the kingdom is largely peaceful and trades with nearby kingdoms regularly. Races that are truly evil to the core (e.g. Drow) are unsurprisingly absent.
4) Related to #3, there are 6 draconic gods known as Bahamut, Tiamat, Agatha, Dao, Kala, and Prometheus. Tiamat is the only Evil god among them, but is also a silent deity who requires no code of her followers despite granting her clerics a lawful evil aura. These deities replace the existing draconic deities.
5) Psionics exists (from Ultimate Psionics), but is largely considered indistinct from magic. It's viewed more like an extreme version of the difference between sorcerer and wizard.
6) Kobolds were adjusted to -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int so that they don't suck. Halflings lose their +Cha and gain +Wis instead for some variety in the small-size bracket.
I've been considering going through and adjusting racial ability score mods for all the races my table allows to give more variety. Did you know that something like 70% of races have a bonus to dexterity? And only 3 have a bonus to strength? (Not counting races that can choose.)
Steve Geddes |
Steve Geddes wrote:But if its not in print, it isnt cannon, whatever they say about 'knowing' the answer.RDM42 wrote:And you guys honestly dont do at least that amount of customization to any setting you use anyway...?I prefer my customisation to be additive - I try not to change canonical things (in case a player reads a sourcebook and gets fired up about some piece of lore that I decided to change or omit).
It impacts on the stuff they do put out. That's the whole point of them having an answer - to maintain consistency. Because of their secret squirrel policy around his death, that's not something the rest of us can do.
RDM42 |
RDM42 wrote:It impacts on the stuff they do put out. That's the whole point of them having an answer - to maintain consistency. Because of their secret squirrel policy around his death, that's not something the rest of us can do.Steve Geddes wrote:But if its not in print, it isnt cannon, whatever they say about 'knowing' the answer.RDM42 wrote:And you guys honestly dont do at least that amount of customization to any setting you use anyway...?I prefer my customisation to be additive - I try not to change canonical things (in case a player reads a sourcebook and gets fired up about some piece of lore that I decided to change or omit).
But in practical terms what difference does it really make to you?
Steve Geddes |
Steve Geddes wrote:But in practical terms what difference does it really make to you?RDM42 wrote:It impacts on the stuff they do put out. That's the whole point of them having an answer - to maintain consistency. Because of their secret squirrel policy around his death, that's not something the rest of us can do.Steve Geddes wrote:But if its not in print, it isnt cannon, whatever they say about 'knowing' the answer.RDM42 wrote:And you guys honestly dont do at least that amount of customization to any setting you use anyway...?I prefer my customisation to be additive - I try not to change canonical things (in case a player reads a sourcebook and gets fired up about some piece of lore that I decided to change or omit).
I don't know that any of my gaming preferences count as "practical" issues - I just enjoy Golarion less than I otherwise would if they hadn't decided to have a 'publicised secret' (especially one so central to the campaign theme).
In terms of setting games there - it means I avoid any mention of Aroden's faith and avoid running any modules where any mention of Aroden might come up.
I'm also not looking forward to a character concept from a player in which Aroden's faith features prominently. Not sure what I'll do if that happens.
However, my main 'objection' is just that I don't like it. I've mentioned upthread that I think my view is a minority position. It's nonetheless my view.
WormysQueue |
They don't want to tell the story of his death, at least publicly, because it doesn't matter that much to the world itself.
That may be the core of my "problem", because I want to be told this story, because the world doesn't matter to me that much by itself. Which is true for nearly any literary or roleplaying campaign setting, so this isn't meant as a slight against Golarion which has still a lot of elements I really like.
But I think I simply let Steve speak for me as well. He does a much better job than myself speaking about this stuff without sounding angry.
LuniasM |
Post-Kingmaker exploits abound.
Nine months after their deaths the PCs are revived in their bottled capital and lead a final desperate attack on Choral's stronghold in Iobaria, losing many along the way, to finally rejoice in victory (perhaps temporarily, as Choral was very intelligent and likely had backup plans).
Memory magic was perfected by a vampire wizard and a spell exists to lock (and unlock) memories. It is only known by a select few. The same person pioneered a forced resurrection spell that was found incomplete by the king, an Arcanist. He managed to finish the spell and used it once before Choral killed him, stole his spellbook, and used it to forcibly reanimate most of the king's council which he then dominated and used as his own pawns. The spell does not come without its prices, although what they are remains a mystery. The Sovereign Court allied itself with the fledgling kingdom, and talks of how to deal with the Tarrasque threat are ongoing.
My DM and I switch off every campaign or so, and we have agreed that any AP we run occurs in the same universe. Kingmaker is almost finished, Jade Regent was suspended near the end of Book 3 but may start up again, we're currently in the middle of Skull & Shackles, and I will be starting Wrath of the Righteous soon. Things are gonna get crazy.
Goth Guru |
RDM42 wrote:It impacts on the stuff they do put out. That's the whole point of them having an answer - to maintain consistency. Because of their secret squirrel policy around his death, that's not something the rest of us can do.Steve Geddes wrote:But if its not in print, it isnt cannon, whatever they say about 'knowing' the answer.RDM42 wrote:And you guys honestly dont do at least that amount of customization to any setting you use anyway...?I prefer my customisation to be additive - I try not to change canonical things (in case a player reads a sourcebook and gets fired up about some piece of lore that I decided to change or omit).
If I buy third party or use someone's homebrew, I expect some non-cannon. The filters in my head edit "There is an answer, but it's secret." to "It's gonna be whatever the GM wants it to be." Without the filters, I would be offending everyone all the time rather than some people most of the time.
Also, I view there not being greater enlarge or haste as an error. Just don't allow anyone under 11th level to access it or just ignore my homebrew if it offends you. In other words, do your own thing and be cool, NSI(No Snark Intended).
Goth Guru |
You know, some of us homebrewed a feat that lets you get spells and aura from a dead god. In other words, worshipping one. Either you allow that feat, or you don't. I imagine dead Aroden grants more non evil necromancy spells such as speak with dead. You could even have a whole dead god domain.
If you are really frustrated, you can join PFS PBP games looking for clues about Aroden. It can be a sect of the Pathfinder Society. Some GMs will hate that, but the best ones will roll with it. Every NPC should have an opinion. In any games I might run, they will if I have to write it into the adventure path.