The thing is, I don't believe you need Martial Flexibility as a Fighter due to sheer number of feats. Sure, you can pick up some utility stuff now and then, but I'd rather have Armed Bravery, Versatile Training, and so on, which are things that no amount of feats can replicate.
Love the guide, SW! Please notify us when you update it!
Love the guide, SW! Please notify us when you update it!
MAGUS ADDED! With special thanks to Kurald Galain.
Not PFS legal. Other than the Antipaladin, else in the guide strives to present PFS options.
Again, thank you to the contributors. If you wish to take on any other class that hasn't been done, please let me know and go ahead!
soz killed by a bear
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I gotta give credit to the guide writers on this one. Making builds using a beginner-friendly optimization curve is harder than I thought it was. I wanted to include Hellcat Stealth in my skill-monkey Eidolon build, but including pivotal content from such a fringe book just rubs me the wrong way.
Summoner should be done fairly soon.
Would you mind if I did a sample Herald Caller archetype build for the Cleric section? As the standout one for the Cleric class I think it definitely deserves something.
Would you mind if I did a sample Herald Caller archetype build for the Cleric section? As the standout one for the Cleric class I think it definitely deserves something.
Not at all! We are missing a summoning Cleric build. Keep it PFS legal.
I gotta give credit to the guide writers on this one. Making builds using a beginner-friendly optimization curve is harder than I thought it was. I wanted to include Hellcat Stealth in my skill-monkey Eidolon build, but including pivotal content from such a fringe book just rubs me the wrong way.
That's honestly up to you - if it's PFS legal, you can jam it in.
But also c'mon, Wizards, get more guns on your MTG art.
Not sure if I should encourage melee engagement so much as to remove grit investment.
Any volunteers on any of the remaining classes?
Ball's on your court, Paizo! Give me more archetypes and style feats!
I don't often see discussion of weapon finesse monk, I get that you give up damage to go this route but you get much better defenses (Reflex, Ac, Touch AC). IS it just the reduction in damage or is there another reason no one talks about dex based monks?
Generally "killing stuff faster" is preferable to "not getting hit as much" because later on your AC doesn't serve to keep the first attack from hitting you, it mostly serves to keep the iterative attacks from hitting you; since that first attack will hit most of the time, you're better off killing it a round earlier. Dex-based melee characters really need to figure out how to make up the damage somehow, and dex-to-damage is especially difficult for monks (agile enchantments are pretty much the only way, and those are spendy and come with the opportunity cost of not getting another +1 or a better enchantment).
I mean, I love the concept of "the monk who never gets hit" but it's hard to pull off.
I don't often see discussion of weapon finesse monk, I get that you give up damage to go this route but you get much better defenses (Reflex, Ac, Touch AC). IS it just the reduction in damage or is there another reason no one talks about dex based monks?
Touch AC and Reflex are already high, so it's not that you gain much out of it.
There are two main style featlines for Monks: Dragon Style and Jabbing Style.
The Dragon Style featline obviously wants high STR.
The Jabbing Style featline is more feat intensive, but it can work with Finesse. The question is what you are really getting out of it.
CF:
STR-based at level 7 with standard WBL deals 1d8+7 damage, has 25 AC, 20 of it is touch AC, Fort +8, Ref +9 and Will +11.
DEX-based at level 7 with standard WBL deals 1d8+4 damage, has 29 AC, 24 of it is touch AC, Fort +8, Ref +13, Will +9.
I wouldn't say either is better than the other personally. +4 AC is a difference for sure, and the +3 damage matters but it's not the end of the world considering Jabbing Style is the big boost to damage.
This is discounting DEX-tard builds with no STR that are useless without magic items.
I don't often see discussion of weapon finesse monk, I get that you give up damage to go this route but you get much better defenses (Reflex, Ac, Touch AC). IS it just the reduction in damage or is there another reason no one talks about dex based monks?
EDIT: Just because I think Weapon Finesse ain't that bad, I made the Jabbing Bruiser into a Finesse build.
adoy
Guess it's Quain Martial Artist then.
Thanks for the catch!
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Alright! I've got the Summoner mini guide up right Here! Let me know if everything is up to snuff. I feel like the "Playstyle" sections get a bit rambly but then again explaining two characters at once might just need more words.
Also, I pretty much lifted the melee Summoner's build from Tark's guide. Think I should have a credit in there?
VERY nice, Rosc! I think you got the spirit of the guide to a T.
Adding it to the guide when I get home.
Ok, quick Q RE: Summoner:
So, in terms of archetypes, are those the only ones that merit mention?
I thought the Naturalist and Spirit Summoner archetypes were good, but I may have been mistaken.
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The big problem with Unchained Summoner archetypes are twofold. The only pre-unchained archetypes that are still compatible with the new version of the class are ones that don't mess with the Eidolon itself, and the only archetypes that really change up the feel of the class are banned in PFS and most home games anyway. Most notably, Synthesist.
Picking archetypes was one of the harder parts of writing this thing. I wanted to include the Evolutionist, but that one barely merits mention even in the full guides.
Edit: love the art you used. Also, if no one is going for it I can do Witch for you.
I think that one's called, actually, but thanks for the offer.
Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to contribute with.
Thanks for the art approval <3
Go nuts!
Make sure to make a metal Ninja with Heavy Armor :P
An alternative feinting build I like is Moonlight Stalker Feint with the Mirror Image set of Ninja Tricks, rather than invisibility. Swift action feints are neat.
Oh, and another one using the Style Master trick is going Swordplay Style with a Katana, and using Swordplay Upset to get immediate action feints.
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Isn't there that Dirty Fighting feat that will let you bypass Combat Expertise prereqs?Well I did plan on a power attacking, vital striking, improved feinting "oni" ninja that may as well run around in heavy armor.
At least that was the plan, until Combat Expertise made it stupidly MAD.
I really, REALLY hate that feat.
I will have to look into this. Thanks for the tips, guys.
Edit: Only for maneuvers? Well, there goes that idea.
Only for Maneuvers.
Only for Maneuvers.
And anything that has an improved maneuver as a prerequisite (e.g. Felling Smash can be had with Dirty Fighting, Improved Trip, Power Attack and BAB +6).
Sadly Feinting is not a maneuver.
For Barbarian, under "Challenges", the section about Patching vulnerabilities, you say barbs don't have access to Medium armor. You meant Heavy, right?
Indeed! I did rush a lot of these.
Inquisitor and Witch are practically done, haven't finished them due to busyness.
I've been thinking about a similar project. What I think class selection really needs is a flow chart. Questions like "How much magic do you want" and "How important are skills" or "How do you want to hold your own in combat?"
Stuff like that.
I've been thinking about a similar project. What I think class selection really needs is a flow chart. Questions like "How much magic do you want" and "How important are skills" or "How do you want to hold your own in combat?"
Stuff like that.
I want something like that too. If you can make it, I'll put it in the guide!
Thanks a lot for these guides! They're really nice and quick without being too focused on extremely specific builds.
One note on the magus: I think you might want to consider adding Bladed Dash to the list of spells that synergize well with Spell Combat. The fact that it lets you move allows you to full attack any opponent from up to 30 feet away, with a bonus attack (with extra accuracy equal to your INT). It can also be used to full attack someone, then bladed dash away from them to avoid getting full attacked in return. All the movement during this spell also avoids AoO's, so it's good in retreat situations as well, or avoiding enemies with reach.
Wow! These are really well-done. Kudos!
Those Fighter builds even look pretty darn playable.
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Okay! After struggling to figure out what to use as build examples, I have done the Ninja section! It is HERE for your viewing pleasure. Also, a few things.
- I used placeholder art because Secret Wizard is much better at this than I am.
- I played it super safe by the RAW. I'm not 100% sure if you can use the Rogues FCB to get extra Talents, so I went with HP. Likewise, I did not try to take the Extra Rogue Talent feat.
- I still hate Combat Expertise, but it's less painful to take when you'll be aiming for AC 10 throughout most of your career.
- It is really hard to make interesting Ninja builds when Unchained Rogue exists and there is literally no direct class support outside of it's debut book.
Check out the builds and tell me what you think. And feel free to make any changes you deem necessary, SW. Also, if it isn't claimed by anyone else, I'd love to do a guide on the Kineticist.
I think one of the advantages you should list for Ninjas is their superior weapon selection. Also, a katana is probably a decent weapon for a Brute Ninja. Maybe spend the proficiency feat on something else?
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I think one of the advantages you should list for Ninjas is their superior weapon selection. Also, a katana is probably a decent weapon for a Brute Ninja. Maybe spend the proficiency feat on something else?
I was really on the fence about using that or a katana. Looking back, I think the Greatsword is mostly a holdover from the first draft of the build back when it used Vital Strike. I'm not 100% sure what I'd put in the feat spot instead of Greatsword Proficiency, maybe Improved Initiative or Medium Armor Proficiency to make the gear selection a bit less cheesy?
When it comes to weapons, I don't put as much weight behind a high crit range when it doesn't do anything for Sneak Attack.
I like your original build ideas. Thumbs up.
Hey, thanks a lot!