Recording Purchases on Chronicle Sheets


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Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Ferious Thune wrote:

Here's an example where this makes a mechanical difference. If I want to spend prestige on an item, I can only do so once per chronicle. I used my potion of Fly during the scenario. If I have to complete my chronicle at the table, then I have to decide at the table whether or not to use prestige to replace the potion. I could wait to make that decision and record it on the next chronicle. But if I do that, then I can't spend prestige during the next scenario to purchase anything else. So when the prestige spent is is totaled has an actual mechanical eff ct and can influence purchase decisions. In between sessions, I might run across a vanity I'd rather have and spend gold on the potion. Or I might find an item that requires all my gold. Maybe both, and I decide not to replace the item at all.

Situations like that are why players like to have the extra time to fill things out. Purchases can be done before the scenario, and chronicles and math can be verified then just as easily as after.

It is my understandint that you can purchase vanities regardless if you use prestige to buy an item. If that is true than your example is does not make sense. If it is not true, and you can only spend prestige once on a chronicle, than I need to fix a chronicle and take off a potion of flying....

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

nosig wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
nosig wrote:
ah... can we just continue doing this the way we have for the last seven years?
And which way is that? RAW or local practice? :)

well... I have played for the last seven years, in a lot of diverse locations (Washington DC, Kansas City, St. Louis, Denver, Colo. Springs, Albuquerque, Jacksonville and a lot of conventions in between those cities). I have run a few games (need to do several more Specials to get my 5th star now...), and even been involved in Coordinating a couple events...

I think the number of times I have filled a Chronicle out in "the Omaha Option" to be less than 10. Maybe less than 5.

How about we each continue like this?

Well like I said, I am Lawful. If the rule is to do it as "everyone but Omaha" does it then I will follow rule.

I honesty don't care what the rule is. I just care that there is rule and that it is follow by everyone. Again, that is the Lawful coming out.

And BTW, I believe Omaha is following the rule and is not doing an option.

So to finally answer your question, we SHOULD follow the rule regardless of where we are playing.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
I can say for a fact that when Phoenix announced we would do some random audits for chronicles and resources, it caused a huge outcry among our players.

Did you follow through on the audits?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Gary Bush wrote:
Did you follow through on the audits?

There is a reason I shared the anecdote to this thread. I'll leave you to decide what that reason is.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Gary Bush wrote:
It is my understandint that you can purchase vanities regardless if you use prestige to buy an item. If that is true than your example is does not make sense.

Correct. The only restriction on how many times you can buy something with Prestige Points is with buying an item (1PP for $150 or 2PP for 750gp). That can only be done once per scenario. You can buy* as many of anything else you want until you run out of Prestige Points. Reference page 26 of the Guide, bottom of Table 5-4.

spend Prestige Points

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Hillis, that is basically how we are doing it Omaha.

And to those who have expressed concerns about audits, that has not happened (yet). The GMs take a look to see if anything jumps out (errors, did the player include purchases or not) and then signs it. I guess I also hand my GMs my ITS so if they wish they can see the recordable purchases.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

TOZ wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
Did you follow through on the audits?
There is a reason I shared the anecdote to this thread. I'll leave you to decide what that reason is.

Ok you have completely lost me Toz. I don't see any other posts by you in this thread.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Gary Bush wrote:
Ok you have completely lost me Toz. I don't see any other posts by you in this thread.

I have many names. :)

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
Ok you have completely lost me Toz. I don't see any other posts by you in this thread.
I have many names. :)

OH ok.

So I take from your anecdote that you did not follow through because your players express their dislike of such action.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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That is certainly a conclusion you could draw.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
I have many names. :)

Just don't try to find any of them during the middle slot at PaizoCon or GenCon. He'll be napping. ;-)

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Bob Jonquet wrote:
napping. ;-)

I thought that didn't happen during the cons....

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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I don't see a "GM's Initials" box next to the starting GP/PP/Fame boxes, or next to the PP/GP spent boxes, or next to the boxes for final totals.

By filling out only the boxes that require my initials, including the very bottom lines of the sheet, I have done my legal obligation as according to the Guide.

My interpretation of "making sure all boxes are filled out" means "making sure I've filled out all boxes labeled [GM only]".

I have the image in the back of the Guide, as well as the Chronicles themselves, as evidence that I am doing everything correctly.

I see -zero- evidence that I have to fill out every box.

Side note: can we please stop with the "I'm being Lawful" rhetoric?

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

TOZ wrote:
That is certainly a conclusion you could draw.

That is too bad.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Gary Bush wrote:
I thought that didn't happen during the cons....

I become a very bad GM without naps.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Nefreet wrote:
Side note: can we please stop with the "I'm being Lawful" rhetoric?

Maybe :)

(that is my Chaotic side!)

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Nefreet wrote:
By filling out only the boxes that require my initials, including the very bottom lines of the sheet, I have done my legal obligation as according to the Guide.

Actually (technically) if you read the Guide under "Filling Out a Chronicle Sheet" on page 36, the steps include you are instructed to have the player complete the top of the form and the starting values for XP, Fame/PP, and gold. Then they pass it back to you to complete what they earned. Then you pass it back to them to complete the totals, including all purchasing to be done. Then you complete the bottom and sign. It is pretty clear and hard to argue what the intent is.

Now, being a realist, maybe we can compromise that the purchasing part of the process is the biggest time sink and needs some leeway, but I really don't see any reason why the rest cannot be completed. Unless of course it is a delayed chronicle for a pregen play session. In that case, I think we all would agree that some of the info would have to be left blank, but there should be a clear note added to the body of the chronicle indicating it is a delayed chronicle and when it is to be applied. At least that is what I do when I complete one of those.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Nefreet wrote:

I don't see a "GM's Initials" box next to the starting GP/PP/Fame boxes, or next to the PP/GP spent boxes, or next to the boxes for final totals.

By filling out only the boxes that require my initials, including the very bottom lines of the sheet, I have done my legal obligation as according to the Guide.

My interpretation of "making sure all boxes are filled out" means "making sure I've filled out all boxes labeled [GM only]".

I have the image in the back of the Guide, as well as the Chronicles themselves, as evidence that I am doing everything correctly.

I see -zero- evidence that I have to fill out every box.

I went back to the guide to see what the procedure laid out there was. I as shocked by it. We in Omaha are not following the procedure as laid out on pages 36 to 38.

I would encourage everyone to look at that again. Especially step 8. I am pretty certain most people, especially you Nefreet, will be surprised.

Here is a hint... Players are to "note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the the notes section (V)".

Edit ==> And Bob ninjaed me!!!

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Now, being a realist, maybe we can compromise that the purchasing part of the process is the biggest time sink and needs some leeway, but I really don't see any reason why the rest cannot be completed.

There's no way to give leeway on purchasing and still complete every single box at the table. Can't fill it all out without knowing how much was spent.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Gary Bush wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

I don't see a "GM's Initials" box next to the starting GP/PP/Fame boxes, or next to the PP/GP spent boxes, or next to the boxes for final totals.

By filling out only the boxes that require my initials, including the very bottom lines of the sheet, I have done my legal obligation as according to the Guide.

My interpretation of "making sure all boxes are filled out" means "making sure I've filled out all boxes labeled [GM only]".

I have the image in the back of the Guide, as well as the Chronicles themselves, as evidence that I am doing everything correctly.

I see -zero- evidence that I have to fill out every box.

I went back to the guide to see what the procedure laid out there was. I as shocked by it. We in Omaha are not following the procedure as laid out on pages 36 to 38.

I would encourage everyone to look at that again. Especially step 8. I am pretty certain most people, especially you Nefreet, will be surprised.

Here is a hint... Players are to "note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the the notes section (V)".

Edit ==> And Bob ninjaed me!!!

Which is interesting, because you also have to fill it out on the ITS, and when the ITS was announced we were promised that it would not mean that you have to write things down twice.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Gary Bush wrote:
Here is a hint... Players are to "note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the the notes section (V)".

The last PFS scenario to include a Notes section in its chronicle was 6-09 By Way of Bloodcove.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
David Setty wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
Here is a hint... Players are to "note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the the notes section (V)".
The last PFS scenario to include a Notes section in its chronicle was 6-09 By Way of Bloodcove.

Well then, you are obviously not allowed to purchase anything on any later scenario.

(That's my Lawful Neutral side) :)

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Thats LE so hard asmodeuous said "DAMN"

1/5 5/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Thats LE so hard asmodeuous said "DAMN"

Not only did Asmodeus say that, he asked for your business card...

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

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David Setty wrote:
There's no way to give leeway on purchasing and still complete every single box at the table. Can't fill it all out without knowing how much was spent.

Don't think of this in absolutes. The point is we have to have a compromise between what CAN be done, what MUST to be done, and what WILL be done. It is pretty clear the biggest objection comes from the tracking of purchasing, so rather than argue back and forth about the strictness of RAW and how most of us are cheating by not following it, why not have some banter about how to fix the problem so maybe Tonya will consider updating the rules and expectations?

Assuming everything is maintained appropriately, all the steps, less #8 (and related), are easily reasonable. If we can modify Step 8 (and related) somehow, I think the process would be more consistent throughout the community.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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Starfinder Superscriber
Bob Jonquet wrote:
I think the real reason soo many of us fail to follow the expectation as written is that we choose to think it carries little value, or it takes too much time, or we're just lazy.

I speak as somebody who followed the rules all the way up to (approximately) my first star, maybe even well towards (if not all the way to) my second star.

I used to do it the way we're supposed to. I'd fill out the GM sections, hand it to the players, get them to fill out the rest. They'd hand it back, I'd sign it.

For online games, I'd send a blank sheet to everybody so they could see what was on it. I'd ask players to tell me what to put in the "player" boxes, and I'd fill the whole thing out. That was less painful than trying to send a PDF back and forth. I did this with both PbP and VTT games.

Eventually I stopped doing it. Why? Nobody else was doing it. And, honestly, I did not observe any benefit whatsoever from actually doing it, beyond knowing that I was following the rule. But, unlike disallowed races or classes, this rule made absolutely no difference to play in my observation. Another reason: when I went to PaizoCon 2013, I had a list of things I wanted to buy to put on my next chronicle sheet. I tried to tell the GM about it, and he said, "yes, whatever," looking surprised that I was asking, and a bit annoyed that I was wasting time on this. At that PaizoCon, I observed nobody doing all the accounting. (And this was back when we were supposed to itemize each purchase on chronicle sheets.) GMs handed out chronicle sheets with the GM sections filled, already signed. And, eventually, I got some pushback from players annoyed that I was asking them for all this information before they got their sheet. They'd say they wanted to think about what they wanted to purchase, etc.

With online games, it added to the pain, having to have the additional back-and-forth, and having to wait for players to come back with the information. (Often, they didn't give me everything I needed the first time too, so I had to ask again.) With in-person games, it was a bunch of fiddly filling out of forms.

All for no benefit. Or so I observed. Nothing ran any different in my games where I was insisting on this, and everybody else's games where nobody followed the rules.

So eventually I stopped causing problems by driving 55 on the freeway and getting into accidents like the Google cars that have done so by obeying the laws. Eventually I went along with community practice.

I would like the PFS leadership to recognize not only how gratuitous the current rules are for everybody who doesn't live in Omaha, but also that for accounting and auditing reasons, as well as efficiency and fun at the table, chronicle sheets that were "current scenario information only" and a more complete ITS would be a better way to do it.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

David Setty wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
Here is a hint... Players are to "note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the the notes section (V)".
The last PFS scenario to include a Notes section in its chronicle was 6-09 By Way of Bloodcove.

Didn't know that.. Thank you!

So the guide does need to be updated to match the current way that the chronicles are being created.

This discussion, I think, is timely to get the necessary changes included in the guide.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

rknop wrote:
I would like the PFS leadership to recognize not only how gratuitous the current rules are for everybody who doesn't live in Omaha, but also that for accounting and auditing reasons, as well as efficiency and fun at the table, chronicle sheets that were "current scenario information only" and a more complete ITS would be a better way to do it.

I agree with you 100%.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber
Gary Bush wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:
napping. ;-)
I thought that didn't happen during the cons....

Well, you have to get sleep sometime, and if there's no time between the end of the night slot and the beginning of next morning's slot....

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber
Nefreet wrote:
My interpretation of "making sure all boxes are filled out" means "making sure I've filled out all boxes labeled [GM only]".

This is not a correct interpretation of what's in the guide right now. The guide right now is very clear that the rules are to do what Omaha does.

PFS Guide 7.0 wrote:


Step 9: Have the player fi nish the calculations on the right-hand side of the Chronicle sheet (sections I, M–O and S–T).

Step 10: Review the completed Chronicle sheet and check the player’s math. Ensure that the character has access to any items bought and that the correct costs were paid. Verifying this information now helps prevent errors from going unnoticed on future Chronicle sheets. Once you’re satisf i ed with the information on the Chronicle sheet, fi ll in the gray box at the bottom of the sheet and sign (W)....

There is no way to interpret that to mean "only fill out the grey before signing" without misreading it.

Heck, it's not just supposed to be filled out, we're supposed to check the math. I used to do that a few years ago. It's not worth it, but it's the rules, so I was doing it.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber
Gary Bush wrote:
[Here is a hint... Players are to "note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the the notes section (V)".

This is the rule that was changed since the Guide was released, as per a post from Mike Brock.

(Actually, I think it was changed early in Season 6, and somehow the change didn't make it into the Season 7 Guide.) You do not have to enumerate purchases on the chronicle sheet any more.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber
Bob Jonquet wrote:
Assuming everything is maintained appropriately, all the steps, less #8 (and related), are easily reasonable. If we can modify Step 8 (and related) somehow, I think the process would be more consistent throughout the community.

I've made the proposal above... move all accounting to the ITS.

I really don't think it has any practical disadvantages. And it would make auditing easier.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

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rknop wrote:
All for no benefit. Or so I observed.

I think this is just a perception issue. There may have been a lot of problems that you were just not aware of. Miscalculated bonuses, items bought before legal access, over-spending, etc. Did it disrupt play? No, but it would have certainly impacted the play. It could be one of the reasons why soo many people claim PFS is too easy. It might also help to explain why some think its too hard.

In the past, talking to GMs who have done character audits, much more often than not, the player shorted themself. That is not to say there aren't cases in the other direction. It would be hard to argue that if players were forced encouraged to maintain more accurate, thorough records, many of the issues would be reduced. Its just common sense.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Gary Bush wrote:
Ferious Thune wrote:

Here's an example where this makes a mechanical difference. If I want to spend prestige on an item, I can only do so once per chronicle. I used my potion of Fly during the scenario. If I have to complete my chronicle at the table, then I have to decide at the table whether or not to use prestige to replace the potion. I could wait to make that decision and record it on the next chronicle. But if I do that, then I can't spend prestige during the next scenario to purchase anything else. So when the prestige spent is is totaled has an actual mechanical eff ct and can influence purchase decisions. In between sessions, I might run across a vanity I'd rather have and spend gold on the potion. Or I might find an item that requires all my gold. Maybe both, and I decide not to replace the item at all.

Situations like that are why players like to have the extra time to fill things out. Purchases can be done before the scenario, and chronicles and math can be verified then just as easily as after.

It is my understandint that you can purchase vanities regardless if you use prestige to buy an item. If that is true than your example is does not make sense. If it is not true, and you can only spend prestige once on a chronicle, than I need to fix a chronicle and take off a potion of flying....

Read my post more closely. I'm not saying that buying a vanity precludes buying an item. I'm saying the decision whether to spend prestige or gold on the item might depend on whether or not you want to use that prestige.

In other words, say I have 4 unspent prestige. If I spend 2 on a potion, I only have 2 left. If I find a vanity that costs 4 prestige, I can't buy it. I could, instead, spend gold to buy the potion, leaving me with enough prestige to afford the vanity. If I have to make that decision in a few moments at the end of the scenario, I might not have time to decide. If I decide to go ahead and spend the prestige, then find the vanity sometime between sessions, I no longer have enough prestige to buy it, and I can't change my mind and spend gold on the potion instead.

IF I decide to wait to make the decision, and my chronicle is totaled up already, and if I then decide to go ahead and spend prestige on the potion, it has to be marked on the next chronicle. That then would preclude me from, for example, purchasing a scroll with 5 castings of Lessor Restoration on it during the next scenario, because I'll have had to use my one time item purchase already.

The point being that the result of the scenario and what resources I use may affect my decision on what to buy, and I won't have those answers 5 minutes after the scenario ends.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

rknop wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:
Assuming everything is maintained appropriately, all the steps, less #8 (and related), are easily reasonable. If we can modify Step 8 (and related) somehow, I think the process would be more consistent throughout the community.

I've made the proposal above... move all accounting to the ITS.

I really don't think it has any practical disadvantages. And it would make auditing easier.

Since the 7.0 Guide came out after Mike's ruling, wouldn't the guide override Mike? I realize that there was likely an intention to make changes to the Guide that didn't make because of changing happening at the time.

I would support the change. But until then it is changed, we should be following the rule because that is my La... (opps sorry)

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Ferious Thune wrote:
The point being that the result of the scenario and what resources I use may affect my decision on what to buy, and I won't have those answers 5 minutes after the scenario ends.

Ok I can see your point. But I think this would be such an extremely rare occurrence that it really is not relevant. And it is really no different than what we face each time we get ready to play a character now.

But your example is a valid.

Scarab Sages 4/5

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Bob Jonquet wrote:
Ferious Thune wrote:
Or, like so many other things in Pathfinder, it could be left to table variation, and the campaign could spend time addressing things that are actually causing widespread issues.
Whe're not talking about ambiguity in the rules which is the basis for table variation. The rule in this case is clear and Omaha has found a way to follow it. We don't get to break rules and then use table variation as an excuse.

The board ate my response to this, so here's a shorter one...

Yes, there is an inconsistency between the rules in the guide and the rules that were established by the blog post announcing the ITS. The rules were not updated in the guide to reflect what was stated in the blog.

It's also true that this is not a situation that is causing any widespread confusion. The way Omaha is running things is working fine for them. The way other regions are running this is working fine for them.

So, that all being said, there is no pressing need for a clarification on this issue. If it goes another few months until the new guide is released, it's not going to cause any major problems. There is a team of VOs (or at least one VO) reviewing the guide. I'd suggest this be added to their list if they have time for it. In the meantime, the table variation that is currently happening does not appear to be an actual problem, so I would suggest Tonya, John, and Linda's attention and time are better put to use elsewhere.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Gary Bush wrote:
Since the 7.0 Guide came out after Mike's ruling, wouldn't the guide override Mike?

Technically speaking probably so, but practically speaking, it was an oversight. Adding language about the TPS ITS made it in, but changing the step-by-step direction on filling out the chronicle was missed.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Ferious Thune wrote:
So, that all being said, there is no pressing need for a clarification on this issue. If it goes another few months until the new guide is released, it's not going to cause any major problems. There is a team of VOs (or at least one VO) reviewing the guide. I'd suggest this be added to their list if they have time for it. In the meantime, the table variation that is currently happening does not appear to be an actual problem, so I would suggest Tonya, John, and Linda's attention and time are better put to use elsewhere.

Agree.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Gary Bush wrote:
Ferious Thune wrote:
The point being that the result of the scenario and what resources I use may affect my decision on what to buy, and I won't have those answers 5 minutes after the scenario ends.

Ok I can see your point. But I think this would be such an extremely rare occurrence that it really is not relevant. And it is really no different than what we face each time we get ready to play a character now.

But your example is a valid.

There haven't been a lot of actual, game impacting issues presented on either side in this thread, so I just thought I'd point one out. Players might have any number of personal reasons to want to wait to commit to purchases after a scenario. It could be anything from a situation like I described, to wanting to wait for a sourcebook to be legalized, to wanting time to look through their old chronicles to see if there's an item there they want to purchase. In many cases, it won't matter too much when they buy the item or which chronicle it goes onto, but in some cases it does.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Ferious Thune wrote:
There is a team of VOs (or at least one VO) reviewing the guide. I'd suggest this be added to their list if they have time for it.

That is true, there is a team working on cleaning up some language in the Guide, [hopefully] finding ways to trim it down a bit, and updating rules as directed by Tonya. I am confirming that they are aware of this thread, but I would not expect them to comment nor speculate what the final changes will/might look like.

Ferious Thune wrote:
In the meantime, the table variation that is currently happening does not appear to be an actual problem

That may be true, but there is also an argument to be made that there could be significant problems with many characters out there that the GM is just not aware of because the paperwork is in such poor condition. But, as you say, we've endured it for all this time already, probably not going to get any worse if we wait a few months for any changes, if there are to be any.

Grand Lodge 5/5

I fill in the info at the bottom and the boxes for what you actually earned at the table that I ran. For everything else, I assume you know how to do math.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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I haven't gone through this entire thread. I'm about to head out to South Dakota for Vermincon.

But I just wanted to assure you all, as the lead on the Guide Revision Task Force, we will make sure that all language in the guide is cleaned up, current, and no longer redundant (so future revisions don't have to remember to change rules in more than one place.)

I'll come back to this thread though, to peruse it for what some of the common interpretations and confusions are, so that we can try to clear it all up with what was actually intended.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Gary Bush wrote:
TOZ wrote:
That is certainly a conclusion you could draw.
That is too bad.

That you jump to conclusions based on incomplete information? Yes, it is too bad.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

rknop wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
[Here is a hint... Players are to "note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the the notes section (V)".

This is the rule that was changed since the Guide was released, as per a post from Mike Brock.

(Actually, I think it was changed early in Season 6, and somehow the change didn't make it into the Season 7 Guide.) You do not have to enumerate purchases on the chronicle sheet any more.

Having gone back and looked, the change was:

"Yes, you have to note all items purchased, but your note can be simply 'items purchased = 4739gp'"

Which begs the question, then what is the point of the "gold spent" line?

Scarab Sages 4/5

You can spend gold in a scenario that is not for items purchased. Spellcasting services, bribes, donations to meet a goal on a faction sheet, etc.

Dark Archive 1/5

Fromper wrote:
Rknop nailed it. We have rules that are rarely followed because they don't add anything to the game. Just because they can be followed, as apparently they are in Omaha and nowhere else, doesn't mean that's the best way to do it. Changing them to reflect the reality that happens in most places would probably involve cleaning up the ITS to make it more useful, and the whole thing would just be a lot cleaner and easier for everyone.

I try to follow the listed rules. But in all honesty it feels to me like the rules are there mainly so there's a GM on hand to approve a the purchases. Does anyone actually use the (seemingly optional) fields for starting xp and new xp total? Or do they just add up xp via counting chronicles?

I can't speak for others in my lodge, but what I do is I plan out what I'm going to buy. My character sheet it's self reflects the changes, for example when I bought Kahel a +1 mithral chain shirt. I inform the GM at the start of my planned buy(s), and if it's approved I add the item to my ITS along with it's cost (which again, my char sheet already reflects). If it's not approved, I don't add the item to my tracking sheet. Game then continues.

At the end of the session I'll write down the cost and item I bought (if the chronicle has a place for that). But we don't generally have much time after the session ends. So the GM has already initialed and signed the sheet. Still, I'm writing down what I bought on the chronicle sheet in the presence of the GM.

But that's face to face. If I run a game online via a VTT or play-by-post I'm probably going to have the chronicle sheets pre signed and the bottem GM lines filled in. That way I can cross off any boons/treasure the party didn't get, scan the sheet, then use Adobe's Fill & Sign feature to fill in the rest and saving uniquely named copies for each person before emailing the chronicles out.

In that case, there is time for me to handle the rest of the book work. Of course, if anyone buys stuff at the start of the session I'll write down notes regarding what the bought so I can fill that in.

5/5 5/55/55/5

I try to follow the listed rules. But in all honesty it feels to me like the rules are there mainly so there's a GM on hand to approve a the purchases. Does anyone actually use the (seemingly optional) fields for starting xp and new xp total? Or do they just add up xp via counting chronicles?

XP. If you play modules at all there's a difference, also if you failboat a mission you can have a chronicle with zero xp

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

BigNorseWolf wrote:


XP. If you play modules at all there's a difference, also if you failboat a mission you can have a chronicle with zero xp

Also, slow track. Especially now that you can switch between slow and fast between every single scenario.

Dark Archive 1/5

Gary Bush wrote:

Sorry your experience was different. But once the scenario is over you immediately pack up your stuff and head out the door? Don't think so. I pack up most of my stuff, shoot the breeze with the other players, relive the good and bad parts of the scenario. This can easily consume 15 minutes. In that time, everything is done. For those that have to get going quickly the GMs always give them first priority and the rest of us continue the post session routine.

I will say, the game stores in Omaha are awesome and generally are not pushing us to get out so they can close. This, as i have read, is a problem in out areas.

My ride lives an hour away (I think). Other people have to be at work in the morning, and it's already 9:30 at night. Or need to head home and eat supper with the family cause it's nearly six. We might chat for a few minutes, but only long enough for people to use the bathroom. Then it's out the door. So filling in chronicles quickly is a good thing. People don't really have time to hang around for ten to twenty minutes while doing book work.

Combine that with the fact we're lowish level (Core campaign I think is just hitting level 5) and there's not much shopping going on beyond replacing consumables. Or recording that you bought a cold weather outfit during the session. Mix in that not all chronicle sheets have a place to record what items and services you bought, and it can be a bit of a mess.

But almost all of us use hero lab, so the GM can compare the sheet's listed current gold/prestige with the ITS. And adding up gold/prestige from chronicles to verify the math if needed. There's been a couple audits, but the process is usually done pre-game. That's when we have the most time. So that's where I'm seeing people doing the book work. Everyone's typically showing up 10 to 20 minutes early. We shoot the breeze, GM for the night gets set up, and any book work gets taken care of. GM also can review any AR rules they're unfamiliar with that someone's using.

Or people spend that time leveling their character. I'm typically doing my level up stuff while we're wrapping things up since I got my computer with me and the hero lab portfolio open.

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