At 5th level, whenever the sword binder casts a spell with a range of touch from the wizard spell list, he can use his bonded sword to deliver the touch attack, including expending a daily use of hand of the apprentice to make the touch attack at range. This occurs as part of the same action as casting the spell. He gains all the attack bonuses that apply to his sword (including enhancement bonuses and relevant feats), but does not add his sword’s damage or effects to the touch spell.
Can spell crit when I use sword?
What is crit rate? 20? Or 19-20 like a sword?
When magus use sword for touch spell he use sword's crit rate. But for wizard I cant find any answers.
I'd recommend using the weapon's critical range to keep things simple. Keeping track of two critical ranges for the same attack feels clunky.
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I'd recommend using the weapon's critical range to keep things simple. Keeping track of two critical ranges for the same attack feels clunky.
He isn't attacking with the weapon, he attacks as a touch spell, the sword only gives only an attack bonus.
There aren't two critical ranges in the same attack at all.HAt 5th level, whenever the sword binder casts a spell with a range of touch from the wizard spell list, he can use his bonded sword to deliver the touch attack, including expending a daily use of hand of the apprentice to make the touch attack at range. This occurs as part of the same action as casting the spell. He gains all the attack bonuses that apply to his sword (including enhancement bonuses and relevant feats), but does not add his sword’s damage or effects to the touch spell.
Using the critical range of the weapon increase the complication, as you start having problems with improved critical (appropriate kind of sword) or keen edge.
The 8th level ability allow him to make a throw sword attack, but, at that point, he resolves the attack as a weapon attack.
At 8th level, when a sword binder casts a ranged touch spell or activates this ability to cast a touch spell through it, he can send his bound sword to deliver the spell and strike the target in one motion. Rather than a touch attack, he makes a ranged attack with the sword. If the sword hits, it deals normal weapon damage for hand of the apprentice and the spell automatically hits that target. If the sword misses, the spell lingers on the weapon and the sword binder can attempt to deliver the spell again by activating this ability as a standard action. If the sword binder drops or sheaths the weapon with the spell’s charge still held, the charge dissipates to no effect.
I was thinking of the 8th level version. So, do you think that if the 8th level version is a critical hit, the spell effect is also a critical? Or that the spell can never critical hit, since it "automatically hits the target"?
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I was thinking of the 8th level version. So, do you think that if the 8th level version is a critical hit, the spell effect is also a critical? Or that the spell can never critical hit, since it "automatically hits the target"?
I don't think that a critical with the weapon makes it a critical hit for the spell. The magus has a specific ability that gives him that, as the archetype doesn't say that it gives something similar, it doesn't.
So, using the 8th level ability, the spell can never critically hit.
Essentially, to get two criticals from a single confirmed threat you need a special ability that says that you get them.
I was thinking of the 8th level version. So, do you think that if the 8th level version is a critical hit, the spell effect is also a critical? Or that the spell can never critical hit, since it "automatically hits the target"?I don't think that a critical with the weapon makes it a critical hit for the spell. The magus has a specific ability that gives him that, as the archetype doesn't say that it gives something similar, it doesn't.
So, using the 8th level ability, the spell can never critically hit.
Essentially, to get two criticals from a single confirmed threat you need a special ability that says that you get them.
Is there such an "special ability"?
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Essentially, to get two criticals from a single confirmed threat you need a special ability that says that you get them.Is there such an "special ability"?
The Magus has it with Spellstrike. I think there are other classes archetypes that give it.
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
The magus text could just be informational text for how any ability like that works. It's possible that any attack used to deliver a spell uses the threat range of the touch to determine if it critical hits.
Otherwise we have that awkward question of do I determine the critical of the sword attack and the spell attack separately. Consider using a greatsword and shocking grasp. If you roll a 20 and confirm the critical with the level 8 ability, does the spell do double damage? If you roll a 19 with a greatsword and confirm, then would the spell not deal double damage, but the sword still does? It just seems messy if they don't both critical hit together. I think ruling them to be separate is a mistake.
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The magus text could just be informational text for how any ability like that works. It's possible that any attack used to deliver a spell uses the threat range of the touch to determine if it critical hits.
Otherwise we have that awkward question of do I determine the critical of the sword attack and the spell attack separately. Consider using a greatsword and shocking grasp. If you roll a 20 and confirm the critical with the level 8 ability, does the spell do double damage? If you roll a 19 with a greatsword and confirm, then would the spell not deal double damage, but the sword still does? It just seems messy if they don't both critical hit together. I think ruling them to be separate is a mistake.
And if both get a critical what multiplier you use? It is less messy?
looks like on 8 lvl wizand more weaker.
On 5 lvl: atack vs touch + can crit.
on 8 lvl: atack vs AC - cant crit.
yes, u add sword`s damage but with low BAB on 8 lvl U`ll deal 0 dmg for the whole scenario.
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looks like on 8 lvl wizand more weaker.
On 5 lvl: atack vs touch + can crit.
on 8 lvl: atack vs AC - cant crit.
yes, u add sword`s damage but with low BAB on 8 lvl U`ll deal 0 dmg for the whole scenario.
You can choose to use the level 5 or level 8 option, so it all depends on the situation and what weapon you are using.
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How I'd run it:
At 5th level it crits only on a 20, like any other spell touch attack. All the weapon does is let you add to hit bonuses like that +1 for it being masterwork, or you having weapon focus, etc.
At 8th level you make a normal attack roll, which can crit as normal (using the weapon's crit range) and the spell would crit too, just like the magus spellstrike ability.
RAW:
At 8th level you make your weapon attack vs AC, the weapon can crit as normal, but the spell "hits automatically," so it didn't get an attack roll, so it didn't get a chance to crit.
How It looks now no one`ll be use 8lvl option, coz it suck.
+4 BaB vs 8lvl AC have chance only with 20 on dice.