Flagbearer Feat. Maybe worst feat ever ?


Rules Questions


Hey my lovely mates,
This feat, i mean Flagbearer, gives "you" and your allies +1 attack/damage and save for fear and charm. Yes, that sounds good. But you can't use this feat because it, Flagbearer feat, requiers a hand to hold flag and also flag requiers 1 free hand.

So;

1- You can't attack, you can't shield yourself, you can't cast a spell. Because you need free hand so you shouldn't use for anything that hand. But feat says you have +1 attack and damage. Even you can't attack and deal damage. (?)

2- Now you're just a +1 morale bonus for your team and nothing.

3-They can't even drink Potion Of Heroism or something like that because you gave them +1 morale bonus so they don't stack.

4-If enemy capture or destroy this flag you and your allies gain minus version of this feat.

I think this feat should be changed. Because this is now SO NPC feat.I want to be useful for my fellows but its now worth it. I'm curious, How can any player choose this feat? Being flag at combats. Just flag. Nothing more.

I wonder your ideas friends.


Uhh, using the flag only requires one hand. Your other hand is free to do anything, including attacking or shielding yourself or casting a spell.

So yes, you can gain the benefits of this feat and still have one free hand to do anything else with. Including attacking or spellcasting or drinking a potion or whatever else. I have no idea why you think this feat requires two hands. Nothing in the feat requires a "free hand" to gain the benefits, just one hand to hold the flag.


CampinCarl9127 wrote:

Uhh, using the flag only requires one hand. Your other hand is free to do anything, including attacking or shielding yourself or casting a spell.

So yes, you can gain the benefits of this feat and still have one free hand to do anything else with. Including attacking or spellcasting or drinking a potion or whatever else. I have no idea why you think this feat requires two hands. Nothing in the feat requires a "free hand" to gain the benefits, just one hand to hold the flag.

I think the confusion is that the feat says that "You must hold the flag in one hand in order to grant this bonus" and the description of the flag item says "Carrying a flag in combat requires a free hand." Those refer to the same hand. In order to pick up and carry the flag, you need a hand free (which is occupied by the flag)

Now, granted, you can't TWF or THF with this normally (though I'm sure there's probably some way to get around this- I know I'd allow someone with Flagbearer to mount it on a Knight-Captain's Lance and get the benefit that way, for instance)


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I'd let them use it as an improvised melee weapon too. Flag staffs can be pretty heavy.

Scarab Sages

You can also use it with a Banner of the Ancient Kings attached to a longspear, attacking with the longspear while getting the benefit of the feat.


Give your improved familiar this feat. Make a tiny Banner of the Ancient Kings.

Bonus points if your familiar has the mascot archetype.


That it can't be used on a lance is rough. Also can't be mounted in ones back like the classic samurai look is pretty disappointing too.

It seems a huge limitation to put in a feat that would otherwise be a reasonable pick... As it stands it would at best be a trait.


FiddlersGreen wrote:

Give your improved familiar this feat. Make a tiny Banner of the Ancient Kings.

Bonus points if your familiar has the mascot archetype.

How would a familiar get this feat though?

Scarab Sages

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Omnitricks wrote:
FiddlersGreen wrote:

Give your improved familiar this feat. Make a tiny Banner of the Ancient Kings.

Bonus points if your familiar has the mascot archetype.

How would a familiar get this feat though?

Flagbearer is a combat feat, so you can share it with your familiar as an eldritch guardian.


Pole must be at least 8' long.


For my home games I allow the flag to be mounted on longspears, lances and similar weapons. Banner of Ancient Kings is a decent precedent, as is the artwork for Alain.

Maybe not entirely RAW, but I think it's a reasonable ruling.


I'm in pfs land :(


I prefer to just get a Candle of Invocation for my familiar instead. Making it light it during the start of combat.

Is this item legal for PFS?

Grand Lodge

It is, but PFS has a specific restriction that prevents familiars from activating any magic items (with the exception that a small list of them can use wands).


Jeff Merola wrote:
It is, but PFS has a specific restriction that prevents familiars from activating any magic items (with the exception that a small list of them can use wands).

Good to know, guess I'll have to use a standard action myself, then.


CampinCarl9127 wrote:

Uhh, using the flag only requires one hand. Your other hand is free to do anything, including attacking or shielding yourself or casting a spell.

So yes, you can gain the benefits of this feat and still have one free hand to do anything else with. Including attacking or spellcasting or drinking a potion or whatever else. I have no idea why you think this feat requires two hands. Nothing in the feat requires a "free hand" to gain the benefits, just one hand to hold the flag.

As i mentioned my friend, yes in feat there is no "you need free hand" sentence but if you look equipment flag which is in Inner Sea World Guide with this feat, they heavily implied these words; "Carrying a flag in combat requires a free hand." That's why i think a character need his both hands to use this feat effectively.

The Exchange

You can use the feat as it is if your character concept is just as a buffer/caster. Remember you can always take off 1 hand off the flag to cast stuff then hold flag again. Even under the strictest interpretation, you still give allies bonus.


you don't need your hands for Unarmed strikes.


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I like to combine the flagbearer feat with the improvised defence trait.
As long as you have your flag (which is an improvised weapon) in your hand and don't attack with it you gain a +1 shield bonus to AC.


Flagbearer + Dawnflower Dervish... or Inspired Blade... or any other one-handed combatant... You're welcome.

Most of the time, the characters taking Flagbearer are going to be mostly support personnel anyway. The steep Charisma requirements make this an ideal feat for a bard, sorcerer, oracle, summoner, skald, etc. For the standard front-line fighter or barbarian, yes, this feat is abysmal. Those same fighters/barbarians will love you for having this feat though.

Also, here's the relevant text about the flag. Nothing in that means that you must have a free hand in addition to the hand with which you're holding the flag. It simply means that you cannot carry a flag and wield a two-handed weapon. It means you must have a free hand that you use to carry the flag. If the rules required you to use both hands to carry the flag the text would specifically state that it requires two hands to carry; however, it does not. Ergo, you only need one hand free to carry the flag which leaves another hand free. Hopefully that clarifies things for you.

Inner Sea World Guide wrote:

Flag: A flag is a colorful banner that bears the heraldry or symbol of a nation or organization. A character with the Flagbearer feat who bears a flag can grant additional

combat bonuses to nearby allies. Carrying a flag in combat requires a free hand.

Dark Archive

"I've made great use of this feat and this giant magical banner that shows my face on it. I even usually carry it in two hands, even though I don't think it's required.

Wait, you people need HANDS to cast spells? How disappointing..."

Orion Starbound, Lvl 13 PFS Mesmerist

Grand Lodge

Orion Starbound wrote:

"I've made great use of this feat and this giant magical banner that shows my face on it. I even usually carry it in two hands, even though I don't think it's required.

Wait, you people need HANDS to cast spells? How disappointing..."

Orion Starbound, Lvl 13 PFS Mesmerist

Why would holding your flag in two hands interfere with casting?

Silver Crusade

Faelyn wrote:

Flagbearer + Dawnflower Dervish... or Inspired Blade... or any other one-handed combatant... You're welcome.

Note that this pretty clearly does NOT work with the banner of ancient kings. That is longspear only or a buffer character only. And what flagbearer isn't buying that banner :-)?

As you say, flagbearer is probably best with a purish buffer character. Man, though, is it wonderful with a buffer bard and a banner.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
pauljathome wrote:
Faelyn wrote:

Flagbearer + Dawnflower Dervish... or Inspired Blade... or any other one-handed combatant... You're welcome.

Note that this pretty clearly does NOT work with the banner of ancient kings. That is longspear only or a buffer character only. And what flagbearer isn't buying that banner :-)?

As you say, flagbearer is probably best with a purish buffer character. Man, though, is it wonderful with a buffer bard and a banner.

Yeah, when I first saw it I thought "Huh, that's cool, but too bad it's a morale bonus - won't stack with Inspire Courage. What a shame." Then a friend pointed out that IC is a competence bonus. Strange, huh?

What it won't do is stack with the Battle Herald's Inspiring Command, which seems a little unfair given that their whole schtick is nonmagical buffing. Oh well, I'll take what I can get.

Scarab Sages

It also doesn't stack with Heroism. Still, it a a good benefit that lets you go with a different spell.


Doesn't Flagbearer let you go sword and board with a light shield? Light shields let you carry other items in the hand, so perhaps that would be free enough?


Even if you have trepidations about the flag-bearing hand, you can get a MW buckler on your main hand that you use your weapon with, which lets you get a shield bonus on any turn you don't attack. Probably worth the gp for when you don't hit people.


The problem with Flagbearer as I see it, especially if/when you get the Banner of Ancient Kings, is that it's ridiculously easy to sunder a flag.


Emmit Svenson wrote:
The problem with Flagbearer as I see it, especially if/when you get the Banner of Ancient Kings, is that it's ridiculously easy to sunder a flag.

Yes, but they'll need to get past your longspear and armor spikes AOO if they don't have Improved Sunder.


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An alchemist with vestigial arm or a synthesist with additional arms might like it... Or you change into something with many limbs, using Beast Shape / Monstrous Physique (e.g. Four-armed gargoyle).


Emmit Svenson wrote:
The problem with Flagbearer as I see it, especially if/when you get the Banner of Ancient Kings, is that it's ridiculously easy to sunder a flag.

That and a mending spell means someone spent an action getting to you and another attacking you... not a bad deal


pauljathome wrote:
Faelyn wrote:

Flagbearer + Dawnflower Dervish... or Inspired Blade... or any other one-handed combatant... You're welcome.

Note that this pretty clearly does NOT work with the banner of ancient kings. That is longspear only or a buffer character only. And what flagbearer isn't buying that banner :-)?

As you say, flagbearer is probably best with a purish buffer character. Man, though, is it wonderful with a buffer bard and a banner.

Yes, if you are wanting to do the whole Banner of Ancient Kings route, then a one-handed combatant is not the way to go; however, if you're looking for a very nice all the time buff for you and your teammates as a one-handed combatant, then its a great option.


As people have said, this feat best works with banner of ancient kings, longspear, and a class with inspire.

It works great, allows you to save multiple level 3 spells per day (good hope) for use with other spells (Haste), and gets your party buffed out 1 round earlier in every combat.

My bard hands out inspire courage and haste in rnd 1 and that is all the buffing needed. Round 2 I can cast offensively or stab someone with my longspear instead of casting good hope. I get to do that all day without running out of hastes.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Emmit Svenson wrote:
The problem with Flagbearer as I see it, especially if/when you get the Banner of Ancient Kings, is that it's ridiculously easy to sunder a flag.
That and a mending spell means someone spent an action getting to you and another attacking you... not a bad deal

Meh, any orc mook with a reach weapon can sunder a flag. The BBEG won't need to waste any of its actions.

Mending's probably not going to help with a BoAK--with 0 hardness and few hit points, it will be destroyed, not broken.

However, I see that Greater Make Whole from the technology guide means you only need an 8th level cleric in the party to restore the BoAK--used to be you needed a 16th level caster/scroll of Make Whole. That's a step up, but you're still stuck with terrible negatives until you can get off a 10-minute spell, which you probably didn't prep at the day's beginning.


it still is usefull for aegis and or synthesist who can have more then 2 arms . 1 dip in bard for inspire courage and you look at a +2 bonus , unless i am mistaken , that makes them usefull for melee battle and support yer party members

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