Multiple Metamagic Rods in one

[Vaite Belleran]

Hi all

I am making a bard build in which my DM allows me upgrade my chosen instrument as though it were a rod.

Since it is a two handed instrument, I was wondering if it was possible to make a single rod that included the abilities of multiple rods in it (ex: 1 rod of quicken and concussive spell)

Alternatively, is there an efficient way to switch between my instrument and other rods?

Thanks

[TPK]

That is a fairly potent ability. The rules for Magic Item creation will detail how to have multiple abilities in one item. The 1st thing I will say about those rules is that one of the little over looked phrases in there states something along the line of the powers must be similar or of a theme. Yours strangely enough is a perfect theme of thunder (concussion) and lightning (quicken). I think you have a strong case for that. I will say this as well make sure you read the section about multiple powers in an item because it is cheaper than if you bought one of each! Now if the GM is a flexible person they may even entertain the idea that you can have the equivalent of 2 rods in that one instrument which could mean you do your thunder and lightning rod and maybe something like a Silence (Silent Spell) and Cacophony (Deafening or Dazing).

[DM_Blake]

Yeah, don't forget to pay 1.5x the cost for the second rod.

So start with the price of a masterwork musical instrument. Add 35,000 for your Quicken Rod, then add 9,000 x 1.5 = 13,500 for your Concussive Rod.

Also, it's skirting the RAI of the rules, but there's a decent argument that you need to pay an additional 50% price increase for (sort-of) making them "slotless" since you're just merging items you SHOULD have to hold into another item you're already holding. Strictly by RAW, you don't increase the price for this, but I think the RAI supports that you should.

[Dave Justus]

DM_Blake wrote:

Strictly by RAW, you don't increase the price for this, but I think the RAI supports that you should.

This is where GM interpretation on custom magic items needs to step in. And it depends a lot on what 'abilities of multiple rods' means. If we have a banjo of fast booming, that lets you apply concussive AND quicken to 3 spells a day, that would be very different than on that let you use it as a rod of quicken OR a rod of concussive, each three per day, but never both at once on the same spell. The first is a whole different thing than the second. For the first I would have to really think about it and calculate out and estimate a price, for the second it is really only saving you actions to switch them out, which I think the 1.5 x price accounts for very well.

[TPK]

I believe you may have misread that portion of the MI creation section.

RAW
Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up space on a character's body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities.

In other words: 1st ability (most expensive ability) full cost, 2nd most expensive similar ability 75% of normal cost and 3rd+ similar abilities 50% of normal cost.

[TPK]

Dave Justus wrote:

DM_Blake wrote:

Strictly by RAW, you don't increase the price for this, but I think the RAI supports that you should.

This is where GM interpretation on custom magic items needs to step in. And it depends a lot on what 'abilities of multiple rods' means. If we have a banjo of fast booming, that lets you apply concussive AND quicken to 3 spells a day, that would be very different than on that let you use it as a rod of quicken OR a rod of concussive, each three per day, but never both at once on the same spell. The first is a whole different thing than the second. For the first I would have to really think about it and calculate out and estimate a price, for the second it is really only saving you actions to switch them out, which I think the 1.5 x price accounts for very well.

He isn't getting to use both abilities at once... Just both powers in one rod.

[Vaite Belleran]

Just to clarify, TPK has it right.

Essentially all I want is for a single rod to grant me the ability to use the powers of a Quicken Spell and a Concussive Spell rod without having to switch to another rod.

Of course Dave Justus' interpretation could have been right, however it is also wildly powerful and also not theoretically allowed by RAW since you cannot apply two the effects of two metamagic rods to a single spell

Thank you all for your help, I have suggested the proposed price modifier to my DM and it was accepted. Huzzah!

[Maezer]

...Technically conclusions your ideas are wrong. 99% of the time you use the +50% price when combining magic items. When you use the 'multiple similar abilities' clause they are almost always talking items with charges sharing the same pool of abilities.

So if your super meta rod, has only 3 uses per day and on each charge you can use either quicken or concussive, you get the multiple similiar ability discount on the lesser ability. Because its less effective than having two individual items.

If your super meta rod, has 3 charges per day of quicken, and 3 charges per day of concussion you use the +50% cost on the lesser rod. For the advantage of not having to juggle items.

If your extra super ultimate meta magic rod, gives both quicken and concussion, you try to price it like a +6 level increase.

[Majuba]

DM_Blake was right. The cheaper effect would be double price, because rods are indeed slotless, just like weapons.

Maezer: agree on your last point, but there are no non-epic +6 level increase rods. The pricing formula for rods is in one of my posts on here somewhere (rather complicated as I recall).

Also remember, can't do still or silent (no still rods, no silent for bards).

Fun idea with your GM! Immoveable might be an interesting thing to add as well.