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Hey there!
How do you handle the following:
You as GM built an encounter involving foes, that want a certain effect on themselves, that is provided by a magical item. They have a wealth and such, so I buy that item for them.
Is it okay, that you ignore they would be dropping it, so your group won't get items over and over again?
My group is always at wealth per level and often finds consumables, that push them above wealth per level all together.
For example I wanted Lizardfolk tribal Warriors to have a "Belt of Mighty Hurling"-effect, or wolves to have fortuitous on an Amulet of Mighty fists.
Greetings!
Magical tattoos.
Basically, they have a tattoo in the appropriate space on them (occupying the slot) that provides an effect as though it were a magical object, but it loses power upon their death.
No, it's dissociative. If I wanted to fight Kobold Slingers that toss firebombs and gluepots at me, but not actually find gluepots or firebombs on their corpses, I'd play 4E (ignore, for the sake of argument, that Alchemists exist).
When possible I use potions, scrolls or wands/rods with one charge if there is something like that I want to challenge my players with. If you are not going to give them the drops though, consider additional xp for the encounter if you are not adjusting the CR.
I'd say it should be fine, so long as the party is still more-or-less at WBL and the encounters themselves are reasonably balanced.
As a GM you are free to add effects of an item without adding the item itself, it could be special training or a magical tattoo as mentioned above.
As long as it is within the creatures 'wealth' it shouldn't change CR. Monsters and encounters don't have to follow character building rules.
Where I wouldn't like it is where an item is explicitly used agianst the characters. If he's shooting at them with a fireball hurling pistol, then I want there to at least be that pistol - even if the effect was tied to the character (and don't o that too often). Disappearing items really break immersion for me - it makes it too much like a computer game where after a long fight against somebody with a minigun, if I win - I want that damn minigun :D
If your PCs have too much wealth then you want to arrange some encounters with less loot or more costs, but it's probably better if that looks fair. BTW, wolves shouldn't have any sort of expected equipment or wealth, they're not NPCs with class levels in most cases.
Some of the items could require specific classes, alignments or races to function. Just don’t over use this or it will get old really quickly. Another way would be to have a permanency spell used on things that duplicate spells.
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At first: Yes I change the CR appropriate to the wealth the mosters have.
I also don't like the look of a computer game. Items I'm talking about are passive. Like in the Lizardfolk example, they are hurling spears more effective via STR. The PCs find the spears, not the belt.
In this case, my wolves have class levels and use the wealth as if they were a character with these class levels.
The idea is to not just make wolves bigger, make zombie-wolves or dire stuff. Make them interesting with some well choses class levels and use magical item effects with synergy and flavour.
By the way, what are the costs of tattoos then?
I like using automatic bonus progression. The enemies can get all the bonuses from ABP based on hd and you can give them some minor magical gear like potions and scrolls.
Of course you should probably apply ABP to your players as well, but ABP tends to decrease power level in my opinion.
By the way, what are the costs of tattoos then?
The same price as the item would be. If they occupy a slot, then they're not providing extra item space. Items that are normally slotless already have that figured in. There's a benefit of not being able to lose/have the item stolen, but the drawback of not being able to change the item (without a trip to the magical artist).
Also, I wouldn't use it for items with finite charges or consumables.
Be aware that the spell Transfer Tattoo exists. So actually giving them magical tattoos to prevent loot exchange is a bad idea.
Hey there!
How do you handle the following:
You as GM built an encounter involving foes, that want a certain effect on themselves, that is provided by a magical item. They have a wealth and such, so I buy that item for them.
Is it okay, that you ignore they would be dropping it, so your group won't get items over and over again?My group is always at wealth per level and often finds consumables, that push them above wealth per level all together.
For example I wanted Lizardfolk tribal Warriors to have a "Belt of Mighty Hurling"-effect, or wolves to have fortuitous on an Amulet of Mighty fists.
Greetings!
As a player pretending the item did not exist would annoy me. It would also kill verisimilitude because I am big on consistency. At the end of the day I suggest asking your group. They might take it better than most people I have gamed with.
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Just have the item have anyone that usable only by <insert monsters race/tribe>, and UMD cannot be used to emulate the requirements. Warn the players of these items, which have symbols etched on them/of alien construction/or some significant visible feature.
Anyone who is not of the <insert monsters race/tribe> takes 2d6 points of unholy damage per round he is in possession of it. Thus the items can drop, but have no markettable value. Soon the players will learn not to pick those items up.
Be aware that the spell Transfer Tattoo exists. So actually giving them magical tattoos to prevent loot exchange is a bad idea.
That's a bit dismissive.
I think magical tattoos are a good solution to the OP's question. Players would have to know about the spell you cite. Their characters would have to have it prepped (or burn a valuable spontaneous slot on it), and recognize the tattoos as magical prior to being able to transfer them to themselves (and yes, they could in theory get scrolls/wands, but the GM controls what magic items are available for sale, so that objection goes away). There is no clear rule (that I know of) that would prevent magic tattoos from being linked to the living creature, thus losing their magic (for detect magic purposes) once said creature was dead. And even if there were such a rule, it is such a corner case that it is easier to handwave that away than it is to pretend that the creature's gear is non-lootable.
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Don't overuse this or your players might get upset. One of the worst DMs I ever played with (back in 2e) didn't like magic so every NPC had a ring that gave them minor globe of invulnerability which the PCs couldn't use because they were "attuned" to the NPC or some such excuse. Once we got 4th level spells all the rings suddenly upgraded to full globe of invulnerability.
I'm just saying that by about the 10th time my opponents only had magical tattoos instead of treasure, I'd be trying to find a way to extract the magic inks from their dead skin. Or I'd be trying to find this tattooist and put him out of business.
Don't overuse this or your players might get upset. One of the worst DMs I ever played with (back in 2e) didn't like magic so every NPC had a ring that gave them minor globe of invulnerability which the PCs couldn't use because they were "attuned" to the NPC or some such excuse. Once we got 4th level spells all the rings suddenly upgraded to full globe of invulnerability.
I'm just saying that by about the 10th time my opponents only had magical tattoos instead of treasure, I'd be trying to find a way to extract the magic inks from their dead skin. Or I'd be trying to find this tattooist and put him out of business.
Well, yes. The "don't overuse this" ought to be appended to any GM advice post :)
We have a running joke at our table that once a player figures out a given GM tactic (e.g., lots of cold iron DR enemies, enchanters galore, magical tattooed lizard men), everyone chants in unison: "And now we'll never see (cold iron DR/enchanters/tattooed dudes) again."
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Take a read on Automatic Bonus Progression.
Helps stifle the WBL problem while giving PCs and enemies the right bonuses they need without tieing a physical item to that slot.
It also makes magic item shopping more fun and flavorful choices happen more often. This makes buying a better roleplay experience.
Put them in situations where the PC's don't have time to loot some corpses?
Acid rains, carnivorous grounds, a roving monster. It's a living world with many hazards/dangers.
If you don't want the PC's to loot a corpse... make it hazardous to stick around.
The Classic is the dungeon crashing down... PC's suddenly have to figure out if looting the body is worth risking the dungeon collapsing in on them.
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There are several ways:
1.Convert magic items to one use (potions and scrolls) or limited use (wand that is almost expended) that the enemies used just before the encounter. If you do this, make sure to leave a couple scrolls or potions behind for them to find, so that the lack of magic items they "saw" makes sense, and they get a reward for defeating the encounter.
2. Another way of doing "only useable by race/class" is to say "when wielded by a Kobold, this gains an extra power that is xxx" or maybe "small characters wielding this sword gain +1 vs larger enemies" so it's not useless but still limited. It works better if the power is thematically linked to the race. Remember this still increases the sale price.
3. add in extra feats or spell like abilities to creatures, instead of giving them magic items. Some abilities can be done this way, others not.
4. come up with similar but less powerful items that the monsters wield, then add in more monsters to raise the CR of the encounter back to normal. this way the items aren't as powerful or unbalancing, but more monsters can harass the party just as well.
Always when giving monsters loot, you basically are giving it to the players. But you don't want to make players feel robbed and loot just disappear.
Where possible, make the item ability not an item ability. A wolf who gets two attacks of opportunity for one provocation doesn't need to be wearing a fortuitous amulet of mighty fists - it could be a rabid / blight-touched / possessed / holy / mutant wolf.
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Thanks for the replies so far!
Where possible, make the item ability not an item ability. A wolf who gets two attacks of opportunity for one provocation doesn't need to be wearing a fortuitous amulet of mighty fists - it could be a rabid / blight-touched / possessed / holy / mutant wolf.
Thats the point for me. Most of the time, my players won't even know that they wear items. Maybe a player starts metagaming and knows, that the 2nd AoO was from Fortuitous.
I meant, that I run certain abilities from magic items, like they were the monster's.In the end, I'm making the encounter harder. Atm I just increase the CR like if they have better wealth by level, but I'm not sure, if that's fair enough.
Be aware that the spell Transfer Tattoo exists. So actually giving them magical tattoos to prevent loot exchange is a bad idea.That's a bit dismissive.
I think magical tattoos are a good solution to the OP's question. Players would have to know about the spell you cite. Their characters would have to have it prepped (or burn a valuable spontaneous slot on it), and recognize the tattoos as magical prior to being able to transfer them to themselves (and yes, they could in theory get scrolls/wands, but the GM controls what magic items are available for sale, so that objection goes away). There is no clear rule (that I know of) that would prevent magic tattoos from being linked to the living creature, thus losing their magic (for detect magic purposes) once said creature was dead. And even if there were such a rule, it is such a corner case that it is easier to handwave that away than it is to pretend that the creature's gear is non-lootable.
Yes, but as a player that just feels like a lot of excuses to come up with reason why you're not giving me loot.
It's better IMO to just say no, these guys have innate power (Automatic Bonus Progression). Because if you tell me every guy has magic tattoos I will figure out how to get the tattoo. If you tell me it's link to only work on them, I will call b~@&~+!~. Because it's an obvious excuse to not give treasure.
If players and enemies both have automatic bonus progression all that loot goes away as does the need for it. You reduce the Christmas tree effect while maintaining a world that doesn't rely on duex ex machina to keep money out of the players hands.
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Be aware that the spell Transfer Tattoo exists. So actually giving them magical tattoos to prevent loot exchange is a bad idea.That's a bit dismissive.
I think magical tattoos are a good solution to the OP's question. Players would have to know about the spell you cite. Their characters would have to have it prepped (or burn a valuable spontaneous slot on it), and recognize the tattoos as magical prior to being able to transfer them to themselves (and yes, they could in theory get scrolls/wands, but the GM controls what magic items are available for sale, so that objection goes away). There is no clear rule (that I know of) that would prevent magic tattoos from being linked to the living creature, thus losing their magic (for detect magic purposes) once said creature was dead. And even if there were such a rule, it is such a corner case that it is easier to handwave that away than it is to pretend that the creature's gear is non-lootable.
Yes, but as a player that just feels like a lot of excuses to come up with reason why you're not giving me loot.
It's better IMO to just say no, these guys have innate power (Automatic Bonus Progression). Because if you tell me every guy has magic tattoos I will figure out how to get the tattoo. If you tell me it's link to only work on them, I will call b#+!*$&$. Because it's an obvious excuse to not give treasure.
If players and enemies both have automatic bonus progression all that loot goes away as does the need for it. You reduce the Christmas tree effect while maintaining a world that doesn't rely on duex ex machina to keep money out of the players hands.
I totally agree and love Automatic Bonus Progression as it is an answer to many current threads and people straight up ignore such a wonderful tool. Even when I pop up and mention it.
I often use items that only work for a specific race... or tattoos... but never do monsters have bonuses that items give without an explanation as to why they have those bonuses...
You could make the items blow up when the bearer is killed... :D A little extra damage AND the item is gone.
That would be a serious jerk move though. Don't do that.
Too often. :D
If I need to boost an encounter to challenge the party, I try to avoid using items to make up the difference.
1. Add mooks
2. Add a couple of class appropriate levels to achieve desire effect
3. Add a bard/skald/witch/shaman for support/debuff
4. Tailor NPC feat selection for desired affect.
There are classes that either have gear as class features or are gear independent. Make use of them.
The trick is to balance encounters without turning everything into a game of rocket tag or simply overwhelming the players. When the boss encounter lasts 6-10 rounds instead of 2, everyone has time to make a meaningful contribution and feel they accomplished something.
Imagine you're walking down the street in the real world and some guy invades walks up with a gun and starts trying to shoot you and your family. You manage to fight back and end up killing this gunman. Now that he's dead, you (and the police) look around for that gun but it isn't there. It doesn't exist. Poof. Vanished.
Wouldn't you think that's weird? Impossible? (especially as the police haul you off to jail for murdering an unarmed man).
Now you're suggesting doing that to the players. It might not be as obvious (during the fight the PCs/players probably never know about the belts) but it's the same weird/impossible thing.
I would advise against it.
Unless you're playing a very cartooney game, you know, like where Buggs Bunny takes an anvil out of his back pocket, drops it on Elmer Fudd, and then it just disappears off-screen as the lump grows out of Fudd's head. If you're playing that kind of game (and your players are too) then all bets are off. But if your game is more realistic than that, then whatever the enemies bring INTO the fight should be available as loot AFTER the fight unless the enemy managed to leave and took the loot with him.
Some of the other suggestions in this thread like tattoos, restricted-use magic items, and permanent enchantments work very well to maintain verisimilitude and keep the loot in game and lootable (or at least visible) to the PCs after the fight but not usable by them.
Hey there!
How do you handle the following:
You as GM built an encounter involving foes, that want a certain effect on themselves, that is provided by a magical item. They have a wealth and such, so I buy that item for them.
Is it okay, that you ignore they would be dropping it, so your group won't get items over and over again?My group is always at wealth per level and often finds consumables, that push them above wealth per level all together.
For example I wanted Lizardfolk tribal Warriors to have a "Belt of Mighty Hurling"-effect, or wolves to have fortuitous on an Amulet of Mighty fists.
Greetings!
I sidestepped this problem entirely by doing time jumps between levels and letting everyone rebalance their gear to that level's new WBL.
My advice, give enemies all the gear you want—just be sure your not heavily modifying their CR when you do it—and strictly have them drop consumable items only.This eliminates players getting too powerful, and even if you're not rebalancing each level, the players will have to choose if they're using their consumables to win or selling them to get money.
Outsiders dissipate/disappear when they die. In my games, so does their gear.
That's actually pretty much the official rule. Assuming they're summoned and not called. Well, the official rule doesn't say their gear disappears too, but it's a safe bet the developers didn't plan on wizards summoning heavily geared outsiders to kill and keep their gear as a way to make infinite profit practically overnight.
The summoning spell brought the outsider AND his gear; it's a sure bet that when the spell ends, the outsider AND his gear go away.
Or else:
Hey, Ezren, where'd you get that wagonload of +1 scimitars and that other wagonload of +1 composite bows?
Ahh, well, you see, for the last two weeks I summoned about a thousand Bralani Azata and then killed them. They poofed but I kept their magical weapons. I'm taking them to town to flood the market.