Druid help


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Well today's game was interesting. We leveled up to 12 so I have to work out what to do now.

I was annoyed that planar wild shape only gives you the templates for animal form, not elemental form but the DR 10 still saved me from an explosion. Also, I got my alignment back cause I promised to never drop a tornado in a civilized area again.

Iron Gods spoiler:
So we ended up, apparently, skipping the whole "join the resistance" thing and instead made friends with the black sovereign. I healed his addiction, entertained him with the mad monkey spell, showed him proof of what the technic league was doing with him and his vault, and he declared war on the league. He even joined us as an NPC for a big chunk of the Technic League base dungeon so we walked through a lot of it. We ended at the beginning of a fight with the leader of the technic league who is possessed by unity. I am tempted to start the next session with baleful polymorph but come on, who fails fort saves? DC 22. Not gonna happen. I should just stop prepping fort saves for all future casters cause those spells never pay off.


In low money games I find it almost a necessity to pick up craft wondrous item. The first item to be made is a MW Artisan's Tool of Spellcraft +X enhancement bonus to Spellcraft (55g + X^2 x 50g in cost)

Druid's vestment
:( There are not that many druid-only items - Shield cloak might be useful to consider or Cracked Ioun stone (dusty rose prism) or Miser's mask


Glad you got use out of Planar wildshape :)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Are you able to coordinate at all with your allies?

Ill Omen would force a negative re-roll on the save against your spell. It's a 1st level witch spell. Any witches or UMD users in your party?

Or try targeting them with Con poison first? At least you won't be wasting a spell slot (unless you cast poison) on that Fort save....


SmilDan, I have never seen anyone fail a save against poison. DC average 14 or 5 for most poisons and it is at the paoint where, as long as we don't roll a 2 or so, nobody fails. Same goes for the enemy. And no, no witches or UMD.

Sarrah, we don't have time to craft. We are on a strict timeline. I would be getting the wild enchantment but it takes 21 days since my hide armor is +3. We don't have 21 days now. The end is nigh, it feels like.

But yeah, at level 12, I have no idea if I should ever use huge air elemental form, cause while it gives the best bonuses and stuff, planar wildshape gives energy resistance and DR. I have no idea what to do really because I tend to stay in my most optimal form. Right now I am a diminutive celestial bat....perched on a rod of wonder an ally is carrying for me in case I can't think of what spell to cast.


Jaçinto wrote:
He says he is it is because we are not fully exploring the dungeons, and that is fine but he does not understand that once you introduce a strict timeline/race against the clock, you kill the desire to explore. Also we use spells to take short cuts through stuff and we are generally not allowed to re-visit dungeons once we leave. See, once we beat the last boss of a dungeon, he tells us everything we missed so now if we go back, it is meta. We are in book 5 right now, by the way.

That is a dumb thing to do. He should just stay quiet, and let you search the rooms. The game also has no built in "you must do this in ___ days". I would just ignore it. If the campaign ends then it ends.


Cavall wrote:

Well the GM has told you what to do, it's really in your best interest to do so.

Explore the areas more and stop skipping areas. They exist to outfit you.

Edit: sorry if that sounds rude. Just you had the person running the game give you the best advice possible. He knows your weak spot even better than you do. Follow the words of wisdom.

The GM is not allowing them to explore. He tells them what is in the building, and the uses that as an excuse to stop them from exploring.


So, huge (elder) air elemental vs diminutive celestial bat from?


wraithstrike wrote:
Cavall wrote:

Well the GM has told you what to do, it's really in your best interest to do so.

Explore the areas more and stop skipping areas. They exist to outfit you.

Edit: sorry if that sounds rude. Just you had the person running the game give you the best advice possible. He knows your weak spot even better than you do. Follow the words of wisdom.

The GM is not allowing them to explore. He tells them what is in the building, and the uses that as an excuse to stop them from exploring.

That's not what I got from that. But ok.


So yeah, I should start working on a level plan from here on out now that I am level 12. Any solid advice based on what I have done so far?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Flyby Attack?

Does that let you fly, cast, fly?

Quicken Spell to increase your action economy?

Power Attack or Combat Reflexes to help your wildshape combat?


From what I posted earlier, yeah power attack isn't that good when you have a strength of 7. Flyby attack is just spring attack but for flying.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Weapon Finesse? Piranha's thingamajigger?

Intensify Spell?

Some way to use Teamwork Feats with your summoned beasties?

Are you working towards that Spell Perfection feat? The one that lets you double numerical bonuses? Like various Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus feats for your Fort save spells?

Maybe Selective Spell so you can ignore allies with your AoE or battlefield control spells?


I listed everything I had earlier and selective spell, after I read it, does not work on my control spells due to the durations and effects.


Jaçinto wrote:
Flyby attack is just spring attack but for flying.

No, it isn't. Spring attack negates movement based AoOs, but only allows a single attack that isn't compatible with vital strike. Flyby attack does not negate movement based AoOs, but permits any standard action. That can be an attack with vital strike or an intimidate check or casting a spell or SLA or taking the full defense action. RAW, you can even start or complete a full round action (other than those exclude on CRB p186). The only thing you can't do with flyby attack is downgrade your standard action to a second move action.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Maybe use communal resist energy (fire) on your allies, and wall of fire?

Is communal resist energy a druid spell?


Yes communal resist energy is a 3rd level druid spell


For the gear fix...slow down and explore. Seriously a hour or so should in no way effect your chances of succeeding...if it does than that is poor gming. Character's logic should be to check and make sure there isn't something important like say the destruction code for the death star or the super bane of the boss artifact. You guys really need to get the gear so take it easy...if the world blows up...eh that's on the gm. Maybe see about teleportation spells to speed up travel time.


Hi, I'm Jacinto's GM and I'd like to tell you what he is not telling you. First off, the atmosphere is more then toxic... we have several different players with different viewpoints and they tend not to agree on anything.

In honest truth, none of our players talk about their problems outside of the game unless it's to complain to me, or about me.

In book 1, I made the mistake of trying to make sure the party got all the treasure... but I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm going to try not to include spoilers for the module I'm running.

The party numbered 5. A Gunslinger, a Rogue, a Host, a warpriest and a Barbarian techslinger archetype I can't remember the name of off the top of my head.

In book one, Jacinto played a rogue. What he did was sit at the back of the party and watch the combats happen. None of the players were pleased with having an inactive player.

In addition, he was doing a majority of the looting. Out of character and between sessions, he was telling me about how his market stall in the town was ripping people off, because they do not know the value of the 'tech' items he was selling.

However, there was a traveling NPC Merchant that was the counter to this scheme. For reasons that venture into spoiler territory, Jacinto killed the man and proceeded to burn down a portion of the town. He got dinged on alignment there.

Into book two, Jacinto's looting strategy was putting the party into PVP mode, with our barbarian wanting his character dead. The gunslinger decides to test an EMP Gun on him without forewarning and Jacinto's Rogue decides to steal his bag in the middle of the night and run off into the city never to return.

The party takes on the boss of the module and loses, prompting the first of several changes to the module. The boss (at 5 hp) decides to cut his losses and escape to fight again another day.

At this point, several players are character dissatisfied/dead and the party gets a wizard to replace the gunslinger (dead/still alive/spoilers), an oracle to replace the warpriest a fighter to replace the Barbarian, a druid to replace the rogue and a we get a sixth player joining as a Ranger.

With the change in Characters, most of the good module loot so far is gone.

Entering book three, the party starts to perceive a timeline that really isn't there... following the footsteps of the boss which got away. Jacinto finds a shortcut which bypasses 2/3of the module. They do gain xp later for some of the encounters they missed.

The party decides to NOT go back in because now they want to pursue a lead that takes them into book four. As a side note, the party is able to get the gunslinger back and I wound up coaxing the oracle to take back his warpriest so there are players there to answer Jacinto's question: "Why are we even doing this" which gets asked three to four time's a session.

However, there is another problem... none of the characters know why their character is there save for the Host, who misses sessions regularly due to work, and an NPC or two the party picked up in book 1 to help them out (as a rule of thumb, I don't count the NPC's as party members when I hand out xp).

During this time, Jacinto's character is trolling the game, making liberal use of create water squawking in bird form while the NPC's are trying to talk.

Book four, no one liked book four... The combats were long and tedious and most of them ended after an hour of real time with the words: You are able to defeat the monsters. Due to a desire to finish the module, quickly, the party decides to skip 5 minor - medium dungeons, and I let them auto loot the areas they complete bypassing major obstacles.

The party has to invest their loot to deal with Jacinto's spells. During downtime, the parties Ranger is crafting Fogcutter Goggles for himself, the gunslinger, and then the melee characters so they can see through the obscuring mist which gets dropped every combat.

Into book five the party now has two problems. 1: they are short on levels, being two levels behind where they are supposed to be. 2: They have convinced themselves that they do not have enough magical items.

In addition, I'm not a big fan of the handholding that takes place in book five so I make a few revisions to the Encounters to make it seem the end boss is close to his endgame.

Unfortunately, the party walks directly into a well placed ambush when two NPCs betray the party. Fearing the other PCs were going to betray him and at low health, Jacinto flees to a roof where he waits out the rest of the combat.

Down two characters (One dead / one fled), the party decides to cut it's losses and flee. Jacinto, admitting the whole city has to be against him, drops a tornado which kills most of the encounter and a portion of the city and takes an alignment hit.

His actions also attracts the attention of a group of priests of *spoiler* and they start attempting to scry on him because they are now his #1 fans...

Now wanted in the city, the party decides they can't hit any of the markets there and chooses to spend their gains in another city in another country (boots of teleport). I tell the players they could sell their tech items for higher in this city because they are curios but I'm told that is stupid and they are not going to.

For the most part, the group is well built and makes short work of any encounter they come across. Most battles don't go longer then three rounds and the party has only really suffered four major losses, in Book 2, Book 4, Book 5 and now in Book 6 during last nights session.

The atmosphere is toxic because none of my players are honest with each other, and the reason I get defensive is because I don't want to be the middle man, that has to say: 'So & So does not like to game with you' or the person is insulting another player without them their to defend themselves or their actions.

I consider myself blessed to have a versatile group of players, but cursed that they never play off each other’s strengths and instead focus on each other’s weaknesses.


As always it is interesting to see the other view point on a game, if they have multiple fog cutting lenses then the wealth is slightly higher than previously suggested as those are somewhat expensive.


Wow! That Jaçinto dude looks like a jerk now.


JohnHawkins wrote:
As always it is interesting to see the other view point on a game, if they have multiple fog cutting lenses then the wealth is slightly higher than previously suggested as those are somewhat expensive.

Depends on their level. 8000 to buy, 4000 to make. At level 5 it's a fortune, at level 11 it's a small investment, at level 15 it's a pittance.


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The 20 STR Aristocrat wrote:
Wow! That Jaçinto dude looks like a jerk now.

I'll say. Dropping a tornado against a city rather than just flying away and not returning?

You don't have a hero there.


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Indeed, hearing both sides of the story is always nice.


Boots of Teleportation are nice but I'd trade them for something else. A Wizard can cast that and it's expensive when you consider other items that buff you being far cheaper.
Flaming Sphere and Call Lightning while lower level are actually useful had a Druid party member kick out damage and control the battle with them rather well. Changing into an animal is tricky and in some cases not worth it. You don't have any magical armor which doesn't transfer to your animal form without the wild feature. Yes you are flying and flying opponents are a pain to deal with but they can be dealt with. If you get some magical Wild armor consider changing into something more offensive. Amulet of Mighty fists gets expensive fast but has the one advantage you don't need it to be at least +1 before adding special features. If you know you will be fighting one creature more often then not I suggest Bane.
Speaking of Spells suggest getting the feat Scribe Scrolls, then make your own. There is another feat that adds one level to all scrolls cast including your own. Make first and second level spells mostly they are cheap and give you more options. Since you deal damage at range I won't suggest a level of fighter. A level of fighter form most arcane and divine classes adds quite a bit to them. In your case not as much an extra combat feat more weapons and heavy armor proficieny which in your case is not that great. There are several options for a Druid to wear heavy armor but you are not a melee specialist so it's not worth it.


Okay talked with my Gm and lets cover some things.

Sitting at the back and doing nothing. Well, as the guy that dies in 1 hit, my damage was at a penalty, and the party was starting fights with creatures that initially were trying to talk, my character was disgusted by them. DM ruled that firing a gun kept defeaning us and my character kept getting deafened.

If I was doing the majority of the looting of tech stuff, it was because I was the only one with the feats and skills to understand what they even were. Everyone was getting items usable to them and I wasn't so I figured I deserved something. Plus if it was a utility item like the lock picker, I should get it as I was the rogue. I also held onto the healing items since the party had a healer and I was going to use them if the party magic-healer went down. Always have a back up. I don't recall saying my market stall was ripping people off actually either but even if I did, that's roleplay.

I was told the travelling merchant was stealing my customers and ruining my reputation. I killed him because he was trying to strip me naked and kill me. I set one house on fire to cover evidence up since I figure, if the guards did any investigation at all, they would have seen that HE brought in the flammable stuff to make the fire. I didn't know it was a jump to conclusions style guard that would publicly accuse and declare guilt of without investigation and questioning, then the GM asked me to make another character then and there cause mine was arrested and in jail.

Perceive a timeline that isn't there when we were told that at any time all the bad stuff was gonna happen. That such and such enemy was on the hunt for the maguffin, so that sounds like a timeline there. Get it before they do.

My druid was asking "why are we even doing this?" because the GM told me that my character's motivation was to go help the previous party members and get them to fight the boss we lost against, plus I don't like to meta game and use knowledge the previous character had. The current party kept refusing and I was trying to get them to go fight the god monster that was, as far as my character knew, a rather large threat and saw the other tasks as minor compared to that as he was raising an army.

Trolling the game by squawking and using create water. Yeah, I didn't have wild speech yet and I was in bird form. I couldn't talk and just shifting back to a human there would freak people out, but I was being told to interact as I was not doing anything. So I can do something, or nothing. I figure have some fun because when other people do jokey stuff like that, they never got reprimanded so I figure it was okay if I do it too. Plus one of the other players was laughing and played along. It was fun.

We skipped dungeons in the swamp that we did not know were even there. We bee-lined for the goal that we were told was the enemy's big objective. Why explore when the villain is probably going for the maguffin? It does not make sense.

Invest their loot to deal with my spells. Well, since my fog spells were keeping people alive, yeah why not? Or I could dump all my control spells and such, plus the party was actually asking me to cast them.

Convinced ourselves we don't have enough magic items. We looked at our combined item value and gold on hand and we had enough to equal one eighth level character.

Yes I fled the combat when I was at 4 HP. I don't let my characters die and they were firing rockets constantly. I literally could not take one more hit. If I am going to die, why SHOULDN'T I retreat? I treat my characters like people, not tools to use up and throw away.

Admitting the whole city is against us? Lets see. First time in the city, the technic league runs the place. We got betrayed by our allies who are actually technic league. The guy who tries to help us is also a technic league that betrays us and takes us into a TL trap. Character is not used to how towns work as he is from the wastes around scrapwall and the Gm approved the backstory.

Yeah I took an alignment hit. Fine. A single action from N to NE? Fine I guess, even if the character didn't realize it would cause as much destruction as it did. Acting without thinking but fine. I can accept that and I did.

We said selling stuff in that city was stupid because it made sense for the story. If we are wanted, we figure we would get caught and people would not want to do business or call the guards or something because, you know, that would make sense.

Not honest with each other? I tend to be open and honest all the time. I told the other players I don't hide how I am feeling if you have a problem with my character, tell me. The GM also makes fun of a player too so don't act like it is just us.

Not wanting to be the middle man? Sorry but part of the GM's job is to take control of the situation. As the Game Master, you have to be in charge. When you duck your head down and avoid conflict, when people are asking you to help with a situation, it's a problem.

We all have our problems and I have admitted to mine many times.

I admitted to the tornado earlier in the thread. I never hid that. I admitted my screw up there but I wasn't about to let the enemy win, and I did learn from that. Never did it again. However whenever the other players did something evil, they never got reprimanded because, as I was told on my couch by the GM, "I only look at major events. Consist minor things that may break alignment, I generally ignore." And we didn't explore some places rooms that we missed cause we don't like to meta game. Once we are flat out told "you passed X dungeon and X loot in X room" it is meta game to go back to what we missed.

Maybe my character was a jerk early on. I admit it. For the things I am saying, I am not the only person in the party saying this stuff. We were even told, flat out, we don't get XP if we avoid encounters and so we were under level due to me using spells to make short cuts in dungeons. I get reprimanded for poking holes in the story, in character, based on the information given. If I find short cuts, we get punished. If I say "This is obviously a trap. Why don't we do X?" An anti magic field appears to block what I was planning on doing or I get told "If you use a spell to convert the metal in the area to wood, the deific being in here will change it back instantly via divine intervention. I ask if it can instantly convert material, why doesn't it have people bring stuff in for it to convert to use as building supplies and fix the damn space ship it is in? Cause we were told it lacked resources. It doesn't make sense. If it can do that, it clearly has the power to solve its problems, so just do it then.

I respond to the situation, using the logic of what is presented to me. I try to stay in character and examine the situation. If something makes no sense, I call it out because it feels like an obvious trap and why would I walk into a trap?

By the way, the fog cutting glasses are what someone with a craft build did and he is the one saying we have wealth equal to an 8th level character. We were also barred from using the technology guide and anything in it for the adventure based around technology, so for the longest time I could use no anti-robot spells, nor could we make use of anything in that book.

My tone may seem harsh, but generally I always respond to things people say to me. If I am wrong about things, fine. Being corrected and called out on stuff is how people learn. Maybe there are things in an adventure I don't understand because I don't know and that's fine.

Long post, sorry guys. If it sounds like I am, I'm not mad or upset at all. I enjoy debate and discussion on things especially since this is pretty much the first time someone in my group, other than me, actually was willing to pipe up and talk about stuff.


Icehawk wrote:
JohnHawkins wrote:
As always it is interesting to see the other view point on a game, if they have multiple fog cutting lenses then the wealth is slightly higher than previously suggested as those are somewhat expensive.
Depends on their level. 8000 to buy, 4000 to make. At level 5 it's a fortune, at level 11 it's a small investment, at level 15 it's a pittance.

One player crafted them at about level 12 or 13 and it cost us a huge chunk of our money.


Jaçinto wrote:
Icehawk wrote:
JohnHawkins wrote:
As always it is interesting to see the other view point on a game, if they have multiple fog cutting lenses then the wealth is slightly higher than previously suggested as those are somewhat expensive.
Depends on their level. 8000 to buy, 4000 to make. At level 5 it's a fortune, at level 11 it's a small investment, at level 15 it's a pittance.
One player crafted them at about level 12 or 13 and it cost us a huge chunk of our money.

That definitely isn't a fortune then. That's less than 1/10 of what your gold outta be at 12. That said, sounds like you're not even supposed to be 12 in there so that throws it even further out of whack.


I am not sure what level we are supposed to be but the GM said right now, since we just hit 14 in book 6, we are 2 levels under level for what we are supposed to be at this point. I will take his word on it since I don't want to read the AP and check. We started book 6 of iron gods at either 11 or 12 I think.


From your side of things I'm getting the impression your GM is kinda a jerk and a bit of a rules lawyer. He's willing even eager to punish you rather then everyone. Letting little things slide is one thing I agree but a lot of little things add up and encourage bad behavior. The fact you seem to be taking heat for everything you do and they don't suggests he doesn't like you on some level. This can be a very bad thing. It can and probably at some point get worse. The party screws up you take the blame and get punished, even if you didn't do anything that's wrong.
If you think it's a salvageable situation talk to the group, clear the air. It will hopefully do one of two things. The GM may not realize he's in the wrong for slamming on you directly rather then the party and change. Or it will become clear he doesn't like you. My advice is seek out another group if that's the case. The group seems perfectly happy that you get punished for anything that goes wrong. This will only get worse if this is the case and then suddenly you are no longer playing Pathfinder because these people are jerks.
Most players avoid metagaming even though it happens a lot. If the adventure is stuck and the party needs help then it's not a bad thing. Metagaming a character to breeze through an adventure is not. About half the modules I've played both in D&D and Pathfinder make it easy to follow the clues if you will. You know go to point B learn something go to point C get magic item, end up at point D fight the bad guy. Other modules make it almost impossible to know anything. Some modules seem to think it's a great idea in killing PCs just to bring them back to screw them some more. The dungeon is all but a death trap and the main monsters is pretty much unkillable. I haven't read anything about Iron Gods so I can't say if this is the case. Now as a GM who has run modules it's my job when the module makes a mistake for me to fix it. Players avoid going to point B and C, okay have to think fast.
The issue here isn't your characters actions, although tornado in the city not a good thing. It seems an issue between you and the group and the GM. Everyone but you is having fun and that isn't right. It's one thing if you don't like an adventure series and you are stuck playing it. It happens not everyone likes high tech, or pirates or whatever. It's another when you like your character and the adventure and people are making it and you miserable.


I want to point out, he's not a jerk. We all have flaws when playing the game.

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