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I have been wondering, are there older archetypes and what not that now make sense in the campaign world? I believe that it has been officially established that some material was banned from PFS because it clashed with the world as those in charge wished to present it. Given that there seems to be some areas, such as firearms, which are now largely accepted it would seem to be a good idea to reconsider the ban on older material which was considered to clash with the world at the time. Now then, I will admit that given the choice\, I would rather that the sanction model and AP list be updated first, but when you do find the time, I would appreciate you to consider my humble request. Thank you for your time.
EDIT: I am mainly interested in any thing to do with firearms. I would also request that the Vivisectionist be reconsidered, assuming that its banning was simply due for flavor reasons.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I would like to understand what you think has changed that would cause a character who gains his power by dissecting people while they are still living and without anesthetic to have become more acceptable. I think that had less to do with reflecting the world of golarion, and more to not fitting the tone of the campaign.
If they did unban vivisectionist, they would more or less have to unban profession: torturer. Also, they would have to figure out what to do with the fact that vivisectionist gets a whole lot of banned stuff as class features.
Also, the old arguement "I don't want to be evil, I just want to play an alchemist without bombs" now has even less merit, since you can just play an investigator and get much of the same effect.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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I would like to understand what you think has changed that would cause a character who gains his power by dissecting people while they are still living and without anesthetic to have become more acceptable. I think that had less to do with reflecting the world of golarion, and more to not fitting the tone of the campaign.
If they did unban vivisectionist, they would more or less have to unban profession: torturer. Also, they would have to figure out what to do with the fact that vivisectionist gets a whole lot of banned stuff as class features.
Also, the old arguement "I don't want to be evil, I just want to play an alchemist without bombs" now has even less merit, since you can just play an investigator and get much of the same effect.
Arguably, they stopped caring about tone a while ago because Vivisectionist would not be the most evil thing around.
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I have been wondering, are there older archetypes and what not that now make sense in the campaign world? ...
You are correct that some things are left out of PFS because they are not very Golarion, however, very little has changed in the campaign world. Most of the APs for example are presumed not to have happened for any particular group.
PFS has an episodic quality too, meaning the bad guy you killed last week, might be providing you with favors this week. It messes a little with suspension of disbelief but not necessarily continuity. The campaign expects that not everyone has played every scenario and in the order they were released. Even the replay rule assumes someone can save the same group, slay the same dragon, or burn the same building.
Pathfinders are also a small percentage of the campaign world, and what the discover is still pretty far away from the norm. In many cases only 3-7 agents, a VC and the Decemvirate, has 'encountered' some particular thing (see episodic above :). While you (player) might be seeing a lot of the HaoJin tapestry, or parts of a sky key, some shadowy pathfinders, or guns, but the rest of the world doesn't.
'Anything to do with firearms,' is still pretty vague. If you want to be more specific, you might also include how you think the campaign world has changed regarding that specific thing.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Arguably, they stopped caring about tone a while ago because Vivisectionist would not be the most evil thing around.I would like to understand what you think has changed that would cause a character who gains his power by dissecting people while they are still living and without anesthetic to have become more acceptable. I think that had less to do with reflecting the world of golarion, and more to not fitting the tone of the campaign.
If they did unban vivisectionist, they would more or less have to unban profession: torturer. Also, they would have to figure out what to do with the fact that vivisectionist gets a whole lot of banned stuff as class features.
Also, the old arguement "I don't want to be evil, I just want to play an alchemist without bombs" now has even less merit, since you can just play an investigator and get much of the same effect.
Pretty much everything eviller is banned. About the only class that could arguably be more inately evil is diabolist.
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could arguably be more inately evil is diabolist.
Demoniac is on a similar level, but is likely more destructive, because chaos.
On the original subject, vivisectionist has the issue of being able to get lots of natural attacks AND sneak attack. A well-built vivisectionist on a sneak attack can wreck stuff. Personally, I'd hope for the various gun archetypes. It wouldn't change the guns, just the people holding them. Also, most of them aren't so great mechanically.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Pretty much everything eviller is banned. About the only class that could arguably be more inately evil is diabolist.Arguably, they stopped caring about tone a while ago because Vivisectionist would not be the most evil thing around.I would like to understand what you think has changed that would cause a character who gains his power by dissecting people while they are still living and without anesthetic to have become more acceptable. I think that had less to do with reflecting the world of golarion, and more to not fitting the tone of the campaign.
If they did unban vivisectionist, they would more or less have to unban profession: torturer. Also, they would have to figure out what to do with the fact that vivisectionist gets a whole lot of banned stuff as class features.
Also, the old arguement "I don't want to be evil, I just want to play an alchemist without bombs" now has even less merit, since you can just play an investigator and get much of the same effect.
Nope there are quite a few archetypes that pretty much have the same fundamental evil flair as Vivisectionist that are allowed in PFS. Only reason why people don't notice is probably because Paizo's writing tends to downplay the ramifications.
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The way to do this, campaign staff has repeatedly said, is to start a thread called, "Unban the X" and explain, politely, why you think that one thing should be unbanned. It means you have to do the work to change the status quo, and then see if everyone agrees with you. That's a much better option than asking Paizo staff to stop creating new things and revisit decisions that were made years ago, just in case someone might want them now.
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Nope there are quite a few archetypes that pretty much have the same fundamental evil flair as Vivisectionist that are allowed in PFS. Only reason why people don't notice is probably because Paizo's writing tends to downplay the ramifications.
Can you be specific about these archetypes? I can't think of any offhand, but am interested for a Hell's Vengeance campaign.
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could arguably be more inately evil is diabolist.Demoniac is on a similar level, but is likely more destructive, because chaos.
On the original subject, vivisectionist has the issue of being able to get lots of natural attacks AND sneak attack. A well-built vivisectionist on a sneak attack can wreck stuff. Personally, I'd hope for the various gun archetypes. It wouldn't change the guns, just the people holding them. Also, most of them aren't so great mechanically.
FWIW, Demoniac isn't a legal PrC.
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I'm not sure if this is an oversight or not but if you want a legal gun-archetype, the "Savage Technologist" barbarian archetype from the Technology guide is legal for play. You get firearm proficiency off the bat. It'll be a bit of slow start before you can put it together though as you'd have to get Gunsmithing and save up some gold to buy your gun, but there you have it!
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I'm not sure if this is an oversight or not but if you want a legal gun-archetype, the "Savage Technologist" barbarian archetype from the Technology guide is legal for play. You get firearm proficiency off the bat. It'll be a bit of slow start before you can put it together though as you'd have to get Gunsmithing and save up some gold to buy your gun, but there you have it!
Also piccaroon swashbuckler and I think there is a cavalier
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Contributor
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I'm not sure if this is an oversight or not but if you want a legal gun-archetype, the "Savage Technologist" barbarian archetype from the Technology guide is legal for play. You get firearm proficiency off the bat. It'll be a bit of slow start before you can put it together though as you'd have to get Gunsmithing and save up some gold to buy your gun, but there you have it!Also piccaroon swashbuckler and I think there is a cavalier
Spellscar drifter, I believe.
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Vivisectionist unchained rogue snakebite striker brawler...
3d6 sneak at level 3 here i come!
This would actually only be 2d6 sneak attack, because the Vivisectionist is weird with sneak attack and personally I feel that it's more of a reason to ban it than any flavor issues. We don't have an super solid answer (aka one that everyone could agree on) as to how a vivi 1 slayer4 would do sneak attack. As written is should do 3d6 as a rogue 5.
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If they did unban vivisectionist, they would more or less have to unban profession: torturer. Also, they would have to figure out what to do with the fact that vivisectionist gets a whole lot of banned stuff as class features.
(emphasis added)
As the last legal profession torturer (Yes, Vaer still has his skill points in it and is now PFS retired), I would support this being brought back.
Also, vivisectionist was banned, in part, because it is ridiculously overpowered.