[Purple Duck Games] Kineticist of Porphyra (and guide) discussion


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...Out of curiosity, just how long is this series likely to be? XD And is there any chance of a bundle release when all parts are out?


Purple Duck Games wrote:

Part IV of this series has been uploaded for sale at Paizo and the Open Gaming Store now. It is already on sale over at Rpgnow.

F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5...

Silver Crusade

Rednal wrote:
...Out of curiosity, just how long is this series likely to be? XD And is there any chance of a bundle release when all parts are out?

This is going to be the last 'full' entry of the series, although we do have plans to compile these all into a KOP Complete; and that will include new content, just not a ton. That's still a ways off though, as I've had people asking me about a compilation for a while due to not wanting to shoot through 3-4 PDFs. We also plan on doing some clarifications for content that's cross volume so that the entire scope is clear.

This is also Onyx's initial debut as a co-author, as they were far more involved in this one than before, and I believe they have done a great job here.


Tels wrote:
F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5...

I totally get that feeling Tels.

Once I upload, we just have to wait until it's activated by Paizo.


This is unrelated to KoP4 (since it's still not showing up on Paizo's site uggghhhhhh), but I'm playing with a Void/Fire build and wondering how unbalanced it would be for Reanimating Infusion and/or Aura of Ash to create burning skeletons instead of zombies? Or to apply templates to the created zombies, even. Obviously they'd count extra against your limit of controlled undead.

Silver Crusade

wynterknight wrote:
This is unrelated to KoP4 (since it's still not showing up on Paizo's site uggghhhhhh), but I'm playing with a Void/Fire build and wondering how unbalanced it would be for Reanimating Infusion and/or Aura of Ash to create burning skeletons instead of zombies? Or to apply templates to the created zombies, even. Obviously they'd count extra against your limit of controlled undead.

Honestly, I don't think it'd be that unbalanced with how they count against your undead limit.


F5 seems successful now.

We are live!


Hooray! And of course I'm at work and can't download it yet.

Silver Crusade

And just in case anyone was interested, I've done my dev post on it to help talk about some of the things I really like in this book.


I, for one, am always interested in developer commentary. XD


And I'll be doing a dev post of my own sometime soon~ I'm not as experienced with it as Ehn so it might end up just a short series of blurbs, or a rambly mess, but I do wanna discuss some of my favorite stuff as well.

That said, I actually noticed one change that was put into the book last-minute. I noticed the spell referenced for the death globe talent is Anubis's flail. Originally, it was Geb's hammer, and I can't find Anubis's flail as a spell anywhere. Is that the Porphyran equivalent of Geb's hammer?

The only other errata I can not is for deadly premonition, which should act as the spell divination, rather than just divination in general (probably not a great leap in judgement to make, just a minor clarification).

Either way, I'm very proud of how the book turned out~ I can't wait to see it added to Ehn's kineticist guide!


Geb's Hammer contains a closed content name. I've released the OGC as Anubis's Flail on the porphyra wiki.


Purple Duck Games wrote:

Geb's Hammer contains a closed content name. I've released the OGC as Anubis's Flail on the porphyra wiki.

Alright, makes sense. Good looking out, guys.


Was the Kinetic Lancer in the playtest? I don't remember it, but it actually looks really cool. Also, I forgot how much I loved the Energy Roper.

Silver Crusade

wynterknight wrote:
Was the Kinetic Lancer in the playtest? I don't remember it, but it actually looks really cool. Also, I forgot how much I loved the Energy Roper.

It actually wasn't. We had one archetype that didn't jive for the team, and rather than put out a shorter book, we instead decided to switch in Kinetic Lancer from LK 2 to help make up the difference. Kinetic Lancer and Onslaught Sniper (from LK 2) were two sibling archetypes that I kind of thought were both too cool to be in the same book, so this decision helped us include something awesome that we wanted to inside of KOP 4.

Also the energy roper is awesome.


The energy roper really is awesome isn't it? |3

Also got my dev post up. As predicted, I mostly just rambled, but hopefully it gives a little insight into what I was thinking. Not that any of you likely want to see into the same mind that thought divisive osteotomy was a fun time, but hey.


Got my copy and it's pretty good ^_^

Although... hmmm... there are a few things that bug me a little:

Spoiler:
Entropist
Minor
- I would have liked to have Favored Focus being "Expanded Focus", so you could select a 2nd and even 3rd array instead of selecting your primary array. It could have been similar to Expanded Element where you can pick eitehr a new element or your primary element, but... kinda understand why it wasn't done as such to balance everything... and to avoid rolling D12 all the time :P

Major
- I would have allowed an Entropist to use any talent with any element, regardless of the requirements, especially form infusions. Since they are more limited in terms of numbers of talents, I would have given them in exchange. Hey, they are dealing with chaotic energy, so bending it in unusual ways wouldn't be weird.

Then again... it's not unplayable by any mean ;)

Pretty good booklet once again ^_^


Glad you're enjoying it! Believe it or not, I've already got plans on addressing the minor complaint when the compilation comes around. For the major one, I can definitely see where you're coming from, and I see no reason I can't at least try addressing that as well. Also keep in mind that there's the Simple Versatility talent from KoP3, and if you're using Legendary Kineticists content, Composite Versatility and Improved Composite Versatility would help you as well.

Silver Crusade

JiCi wrote:

Got my copy and it's pretty good ^_^

Although... hmmm... there are a few things that bug me a little:
** spoiler omitted **

Then again... it's not unplayable by any mean ;)

Pretty good booklet once again ^_^

Like Onyx said, these are things we will most likely look at, although if you enjoyed the book, please leave a review for it. It really helps out the team, which is always appreciated.


Onyx Tanuki wrote:
Glad you're enjoying it! Believe it or not, I've already got plans on addressing the minor complaint when the compilation comes around. For the major one, I can definitely see where you're coming from, and I see no reason I can't at least try addressing that as well. Also keep in mind that there's the Simple Versatility talent from KoP3, and if you're using Legendary Kineticists content, Composite Versatility and Improved Composite Versatility would help you as well.

Compilation? Do you also plan to update the booklets separately? I... kinda don't feel the need to re-buy a compilation when I already own all 4 books :P

As for the other point, I... can't find your Simple Versatility talent. In KoP3, the only "simple" thing is the Simple Composite feat XD


JiCi wrote:
Onyx Tanuki wrote:
Glad you're enjoying it! Believe it or not, I've already got plans on addressing the minor complaint when the compilation comes around. For the major one, I can definitely see where you're coming from, and I see no reason I can't at least try addressing that as well. Also keep in mind that there's the Simple Versatility talent from KoP3, and if you're using Legendary Kineticists content, Composite Versatility and Improved Composite Versatility would help you as well.

Compilation? Do you also plan to update the booklets separately? I... kinda don't feel the need to re-buy a compilation when I already own all 4 books :P

As for the other point, I... can't find your Simple Versatility talent. In KoP3, the only "simple" thing is the Simple Composite feat XD

My bad, Simple Versatility is in 4, not 3.


Slowly reading through KoP4 and I noticed something that probably got overlooked because many aren't aware of the ramifications of the changes between 3.5 and Pathfinder. Specifically, the Greater Shadowbend talent.

The reason why, is the shades spell. See, in 3.5, shades limited the spells you could mimic with it to only sorcerer/wizard spells, like the shadow conjuration spells do. In the change to Pathfinder, the usefulness of shades was increased by removing that limitation, so now shades can be used to cast any conjuration spell of 8th level or lower off of any spell list. Heal,planar binding, any summon spell of 8th or lower, raise dead/resurrection, greater restoration etc. In addition to this, shades has no material component cost, and doesn't specify needing to pay the cost of the spell it is mimicing...

So, Greater Shadowbend is potentially very, very, very good for a kineticist to pick up.


Tels wrote:

Slowly reading through KoP4 and I noticed something that probably got overlooked because many aren't aware of the ramifications of the changes between 3.5 and Pathfinder. Specifically, the Greater Shadowbend talent.

The reason why, is the shades spell. See, in 3.5, shades limited the spells you could mimic with it to only sorcerer/wizard spells, like the shadow conjuration spells do. In the change to Pathfinder, the usefulness of shades was increased by removing that limitation, so now shades can be used to cast any conjuration spell of 8th level or lower off of any spell list. Heal,planar binding, any summon spell of 8th or lower, raise dead/resurrection, greater restoration etc. In addition to this, shades has no material component cost, and doesn't specify needing to pay the cost of the spell it is mimicing...

So, Greater Shadowbend is potentially very, very, very good for a kineticist to pick up.

You're absolutely right; it's an incredibly powerful wild talent for people who have a good bit of spell knowledge, giving access to every illusion [shadow] spell as well as every conjuration spell 8th or lower and every wizard evocation spell 7th or lower. I do feel there's just enough to balance it from being completely broken, though, in that it's a light/void combo talent, is gated behind two previous weaker iterations, costs 3 burn, and can be shut down to some degree at least if the enemy can blot out any magical light you create and keeps to the shadows. Certainly not to downplay it though, because yeah, that's a lot of options open to you.

This talent series, along with advanced kinesis, was our attempt to allow for a more caster-like kineticist, and IMO it makes a great excuse to create a Supernova Blast build. Or better: make a halfling Light/Void kineticist with the Utilitarian Mutation and full FCB bonus.


I love the Utilitarian Mutation. It shifts the focus of a Kineticist completely without really breaking it. Worse "abuse" is free Kinetic Healer(which is honestly second only to heal for in-combat healing) and that's not a bad thing. Less blasting from you means the enemies live longer. :)

Kinetic Lancer... well, if you'll pardon the word play, is an archetype I'm jumping for. ;3

Silver Crusade

Azten wrote:

I love the Utilitarian Mutation. It shifts the focus of a Kineticist completely without really breaking it. Worse "abuse" is free Kinetic Healer(which is honestly second only to heal for in-combat healing) and that's not a bad thing. Less blasting from you means the enemies live longer. :)

Kinetic Lancer... well, if you'll pardon the word play, is an archetype I'm jumping for. ;3

We did do our best to make sure it wasn't TOO abuse able. And I'm glad so many people really like how people took to Kinetic Lancer. Please drop a review if you can, it'd mean a lot to us!


As soon as I have time tomorrow I'll do my best to right a review.

Re: Kinetic Lancer
I really wish you could have more than one Mutation. Trying to decide between Conservative and Arrow is quite difficult! Arrow Mutation is thematic and useful, while Conservative cuts back on the burn you'll inevitable take from (non-Leaping)composite blasts or high cost infusions.

I think people like it so much because it provides a really mobile striker(and because of Final Fantasy). Mobile characters in this stem are difficult to make viable. :/


Azten wrote:

I love the Utilitarian Mutation. It shifts the focus of a Kineticist completely without really breaking it. Worse "abuse" is free Kinetic Healer(which is honestly second only to heal for in-combat healing) and that's not a bad thing. Less blasting from you means the enemies live longer. :)

Kinetic Lancer... well, if you'll pardon the word play, is an archetype I'm jumping for. ;3

Kinetic Healer is honestly the main reason for the "once per minute" limitation. Although this does allow you several more free uses of Kinetic Healer and means you'll be able to fully heal the entire party between fights if you can get a good ten or twenty minutes of downtime. If my math and understanding of FCBs is right, a halfling could get up to 18 points of internal buffer with this mutation (3 naturally, 3 from 3 Extra Buffer feats, 3 from taking the FCB 18 times, double all of these with Utilitarian Mutation). Even if you can't take the FCB until you actually have the internal buffer class feature, that's still 16 points, which is a hell of a lot. Of course, same could be said for a halfling kinetic chirurgeon who takes Extra Buffer 3 times, but then you'd have to live your life as a kinetic chirurgeon, and nobody wants to live their life as a kinetic chirurgeon.


Onyx Tanuki wrote:
Azten wrote:

I love the Utilitarian Mutation. It shifts the focus of a Kineticist completely without really breaking it. Worse "abuse" is free Kinetic Healer(which is honestly second only to heal for in-combat healing) and that's not a bad thing. Less blasting from you means the enemies live longer. :)

Kinetic Lancer... well, if you'll pardon the word play, is an archetype I'm jumping for. ;3

Kinetic Healer is honestly the main reason for the "once per minute" limitation. Although this does allow you several more free uses of Kinetic Healer and means you'll be able to fully heal the entire party between fights if you can get a good ten or twenty minutes of downtime. If my math and understanding of FCBs is right, a halfling could get up to 18 points of internal buffer with this mutation (3 naturally, 3 from 3 Extra Buffer feats, 3 from taking the FCB 18 times, double all of these with Utilitarian Mutation). Even if you can't take the FCB until you actually have the internal buffer class feature, that's still 16 points, which is a hell of a lot. Of course, same could be said for a halfling kinetic chirurgeon who takes Extra Buffer 3 times, but then you'd have to live your life as a kinetic chirurgeon, and nobody wants to live their life as a kinetic chirurgeon.

Well... if the chirurgeon had an option to do, like, minimal healing in an AoE, it might not be such a bad choice for a healer, especially if it could use a composite blast to determine total healing dice.


This series is some of my absolute favourite 3rd party content to date,

I have a question though, i was playing around with an idea for a kinetic duelist & ran into trouble with ranged blast.

It seems intended to function as a regular kinetic blast, but i can't tell if there are any legal form infusions to use with it, since kinetic blade mastery says:

"nor can they add a form infusion to their kinetic blast except kinetic whip, ranged blast, kinetic assault, or dual blades."

and ranged blast says:

"You can apply another form infusion to this blast except for kinetic blade, kinetic whip, kinetic assault, or dual blades."

Which seems reasonable, but can't tell if this explicitly lifts kinetic blade mastery's restriction on form infusions.

It says you can add a second form infusion, only not any that you can use as a kinetic duelist(as they would be redundant or illogical), but there aren't any others to use in their place because, as a kinetic duelist, none except those listed work with a your kinetic blasts.

Am i reading it wrong, or can kinetic duelists really not use standard form infusions?
(i may be underestimating the stress on the word 'another')

If neither, should the first quote specify kinetic blade rather than all blasts, should the second be taken as an exception to the first (along the lines of 'you can apply secondary form infusions to this other than[etc.]') or am i way off base?

I apologize if this has been addressed previously.

Silver Crusade

Honestly, ranged blast should allow you to apply other form infusions, that's how I always ran it. I might have to put it through another editing run, but as the author of the content, that's how I always played it.


Good to know, thanks heaps for answering.


How does fusion kineticist work with extra wild talent, same level 1 cap?

Seems like the "If you have the expanded element class feature" part of

"If you have the expanded element class feature, you can select a wild talent from any of your elements that’s at least 2 levels lower than the highest-level wild talent from your primary element that you can currently use."

Seems like it wouldn't change anything & the max lv for your secondary element is the same as it would be otherwise for your class progression, since you don't have the class feature.

Correct?

(& to clarify, you can still take it to gain more of the level appropriate wild talents for your secondary element that you could have otherwise through leveling, right?)


Okay, I'm new to this discussion and got KoP 1, 2, & 3 over Christmas to help me create assets for a story I'm working on the has a party where 5/7 characters are essentially multiclass kineticists and another being full kineticist.

Not sure if this has been asked in the past 500+ posts, but does Kinetic Smite from the Divine Conduit archetype have daily uses? Also is the 1/2 CON mod to attack and AC optional? My 3rd level Divine Conduit (photokineticist) has 16 CON and 15 CHA, so can she smite with +2 attack and AC with +3 damage, or does it have to be +1 to attack and AC with +3 damage?


Shteevley wrote:

How does fusion kineticist work with extra wild talent, same level 1 cap?

Seems like the "If you have the expanded element class feature" part of

"If you have the expanded element class feature, you can select a wild talent from any of your elements that’s at least 2 levels lower than the highest-level wild talent from your primary element that you can currently use."

Seems like it wouldn't change anything & the max lv for your secondary element is the same as it would be otherwise for your class progression, since you don't have the class feature.

Correct?

(& to clarify, you can still take it to gain more of the level appropriate wild talents for your secondary element that you could have otherwise through leveling, right?)

I'd say from 7th level on, it functions as if your main element is your primary, and your sub element is an expanded element. If you can somehow manage to gain the feat before 6th level, you'd be limited to 1st level wild talents in your sub element.

The exception to this would be Brutal Mutation, and that has specific rules for fusion kineticists.

K-kun the Insane wrote:

Okay, I'm new to this discussion and got KoP 1, 2, & 3 over Christmas to help me create assets for a story I'm working on the has a party where 5/7 characters are essentially multiclass kineticists and another being full kineticist.

Not sure if this has been asked in the past 500+ posts, but does Kinetic Smite from the Divine Conduit archetype have daily uses? Also is the 1/2 CON mod to attack and AC optional? My 3rd level Divine Conduit (photokineticist) has 16 CON and 15 CHA, so can she smite with +2 attack and AC with +3 damage, or does it have to be +1 to attack and AC with +3 damage?

As written, Kinetic Smite is only limited by how much burn you can accumulate. This actually makes divine conduit a beautiful pairing with utilitarian mutation from KoP4.

As for the bonuses, you can add 1/2 your Con in place of your Cha. Doesn't mean you must. So basically you're adding either +1 from your Con or +2 from your Cha. It basically allows you to dump Cha if you so choose, since Con is still your main "casting" stat.

The big problem here, though, is that, RAW, you don't gain any damage at all. I'm pretty sure this was an oversight on our part, but as it is, your bonus to damage is still equal to your paladin levels, of which you possess 0. Personally, I would count divine conduit levels as paladin levels for this purpose, and I'd be surprised if Ehn disagrees.


What are the chances of including a new archetype and some powers into KoP Complete? 'Cause I had an idea last night that the Kineticist could function as the perfect chassis to introduce Mass Effect Biotics into Pathfinder. Biotics were, essentially, telekinesis, gravity manipulation, and the occasional molecular destabilization of targets... Or in other words, Chaokinetic/Telekinetic, with some new wild talents.


The idea of a power combo effect, as it exists in Mass Effect as appealed to me enough that I started working on my own adaptation of it for the Kineticist. Doing so, required some new infusions to be made andz I have to tell you, I'm only beginning to understand the sheer tediousness you guys must have experienced having to input the associated blasts for the infusions in KoP, especially since KoP introduces just sooo many more blasts than Paizo has.

It reminds me of the spell list problem of late 3.5 era; in that, whenever a new spell came out, there might be 3 or 4 lines that simply listed all of the spell casting classes that had access to that particular spell. So much space is good Genji up just to list who can use something. I wonder if that is the real reason for all of the missing blast combinations in official products; they don't want to sacrifice the content space just to keep listing associated blasts.


How does the Dimensional Ripper's version of Hyper-Dimensional Blast work as stated in its level 8 feature?

"A dimensional ripper can increase the burn cost of their blast by 1 to treat it as though it had the hyper-dimensional blast wild talent applied to it as long as passes through at least one tear."

Is the burn cost applied before or after infusion specialization? Also, does this count as a form infusion? For instance, can you use it with Foe Throw or apply it to a blast not compatible with the hyper-dimensional infusion?

Silver Crusade

Hey, just popped up my PDF to check it out.

The burn cost can be reduced by specialization, I'm going to say at the moment that it does not count as a form infusion here, so it could have foe throw or such applied to it.


Thanks for the quick reply, Jolly.
In that case though, there probably needs to be an addendum if you count Kinetic Blade as a blast.


Question about the Telekinetic Muscle feat in KoP3: Does it affect carry weight at all?


Nonalyth wrote:
Question about the Telekinetic Muscle feat in KoP3: Does it affect carry weight at all?

As written, no it does not. It only affects Strength checks or Strength-based skill checks (such as Climb or Swim). Depending on the GM you might be able to get away with having it affect something like, say, Intimidate if you possess Intimidating Prowess, but it really depends on if your GM interprets "adds your Strength score to..." as making the skill based on your Strength.

You do make a good point, though; I could imagine Telekinetic Muscle affecting carry weight. That'd be a decent idea for a wild talent or feat. You'd need to be somewhat careful with how it stacks with other effects and items such as ant haul or muleback cords.

Heh, ya know, now that I think of it, we really should have included a personal range ant haul 1st or 2nd level wild talent; I could easily see it as an aether or viscera talent.


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Oh, while I'm here, I wanted to note that EZG has reviewed KoP IV. You can see the review on the product page or on EZG's blog.

I do want to add a note: while I agree with his assessment about 98%, I do want to note that there's a slight issue with how he assessed the Colorburst Infusion. He states that it's "minimum level 8," when it's an 8th level wild talent. This could be misinterpreted as it being usable by an 8th level kineticist, which I agree would be absolutely absurd for an infusion that replicates the effects of prismatic spray. Because it's an 8th level talent, however, it would normally not be available to a player earlier than 17th level. It is possible to powergame your kineticist to get it as early as 13th by taking a light kineticist with the Kinetic Prodigy feat and either brutal mutation or the elemental scion archetype (since they'll be treated as a 16th level kineticist by then for the purpose of selecting infusion wild talents), which is 1 level ahead of prepared 9/9 casters. I do feel it's somewhat balanced by the fact that, to spread its effects out, it requires a form infusion and no form infusion available to light spreads it further than a 20 ft. radius (or 30 ft. cone or 60 ft. line if you use dragon pact kineticist, but they can't pick it up until 17th anyway) when the default spell is a 60 ft. cone. However, it is incredibly easy to abuse in conjunction with flurry of blasts (as well as the improved/greater variants), the elemental annihilator's flurry of devastation, or the elemental purist's elemental apocalypse. In retrospect, it is a fairly broken infusion, and could have done to reduce the chances of its effects even manifesting, making it unavailable for simple blasts, and/or causing its base blast to deal minimum damage and only be able to affect a number of targets up to 1/2 Con mod. *shrug* Might be something to look into as errata.

Oh, and I also somewhat disagree with stacking of crit rate being such a big no-no for the arrow mutation and kinetic lancer, but I can see his point on those as well, given how much raw damage even a baseline blast can put out (especially with a kinetic blade/whip full attack with haste factored in). Considering it stacks after things like keen, one cannot stack their blasts' critical rate higher than 17-20, requiring them to also take kinetic lancer or energy roper archetypes alongside arrow mutation. This could be increased as high as 16-20 on a kinetic lancer or 17-20 on an energy roper if you include keen blast from Legendary Kineticists, but if your GM is already allowing both KoP and LK into their campaign in its fullest, they just might be biased toward kineticists enough to allow it.

Anyway, yeah. Go read EZG's review.


Quote:

Shroud of Shadows

Element(s) void; Type utility (Sp); Level 3; Burn 0
Prerequisite(s) emptiness
Your darkness is far more powerful than others. While your emptiness wild talent is active, you are treated as though your square is under the effects of a darkness spell. You can accept 1 point of burn to increase the radius of this effect by 5 feet until you recover burn.

How does this work in practice? Is it intended that it always gives the kineticist total concealment against anything that doesn't have darkvision (assuming you're not in bright light)? Or is like fog that you get 20% concealment at the edges and 50% in the center when it's been expanded?


Are there any more feats to give kinetic powers to non-kineticists beyond Basic Kinetic Training? Will there be a feat chain similar to Eldritch Heritage?
Also, I would love to see some kinetic barbarian archetype.


@Onyx Tanuki:

Thanks for the criticism! I try hard to be unambiguous, but I don't always succeed - I'm just one human, after all!

Anyways, cheers and thank you for the linkage!! :D


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Work has now formally begun on the Ultimate Kineticist.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Purple Duck Games wrote:

Work has now formally begun on the Ultimate Kineticist.

Huzzah!


Purple Duck Games wrote:
Work has now formally begun on the Ultimate Kineticist.

Oh nice :D !

Say, where can we pitch ideas for it ;) ?


Necro, I guess.

Hey, dumb question guys but do Unnatural Evolutions stack with later itterations of the ability?

For instance, having Unnatural Evolution and Improved Unnatural Evolution. Does that give you your choice of 3 1 point evolutions or a 2 point evolution and a 1 point evolution?

Silver Crusade

ShroudedInLight wrote:

Necro, I guess.

Hey, dumb question guys but do Unnatural Evolutions stack with later itterations of the ability?

For instance, having Unnatural Evolution and Improved Unnatural Evolution. Does that give you your choice of 3 1 point evolutions or a 2 point evolution and a 1 point evolution?

They do in fact stack, so your interpretation is correct.

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