How would you build this character concept?


Advice


Hi there! Thanks for stopping in.

Short Version: I'm trying to make a specialized spear warrior, someone with reach, enough power to kill things, and do the odd acrobatic stunt (pole vault over enemies).

Level 3, 25 point buy. How would you go about this?

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Longer version, where I ramble on about my own ideas to see if they work:

Starting off, would it be better to take one a longspear/ranseur for reach and toss normal spears as needed? If I want to do some acrobatic stunts, should I stick to medium armor or is that too light/heavy for this?

For actual combat, I've been reading up on Combat Reflexes, Combat Patrol, and Whirlwind attack. They seem good at first glance, but not sure how they measure up.

For example, I'm not sure if it's better to build this as a Fighter (possibly with Polearm master) or with a Ranger. Fighter's get more feats to be sure, but the bonus feats of ranger's can bypass typical feat requirements (such as Whirlwind attack in one of the faith based trees) not to mention the animal/spell stuff. A friend even suggested Unchained Monk for the flips and such, but I think that's a dip at best for this build (I do like my monks).

Thought 1:
Half-Orc Fighter
STR: 18 (16+2), DEX: 16, CON: 12, INT: 13, WIS: 12, CHA 8.

1: Combat Reflexes, Dodge
2. Mobility
3. Combat expertise
4. Spring Attack
5. Combat Patrol
6. Whirlwind Attack

Thought 2:
Half-Orc Ranger

STR: 18 (16+2), DEX: 16, CON: 14, INT: 10, WIS: 10, CHA: 10

1. Combat Reflexes
2. Improved Initiative
3. Mobility
5. Combat Patrol
6. Whirlwind Attack

If I'm doing my numbers right, the early levels are pretty similar (Half-orc isn't set in stone) for feat progression, but with the ranger getting spells and animal friends, too.

Of course, this assumes going for Whirlwind attack, and I'm not sure if it's worth the effort, or if something like Improved Trip would be a better investment.

And um, I should ask... is there any rule/feat that discuss stunts like the pole vaulting thing, or will I have to wing it?
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Oy, I've rambled long enough. Any advice on how to make this work, preferably without driving me crazy? Er, crazier?

Scarab Sages

Honestly, I'd go for a Dex-based unchained rogue using an elven branch spear. The only feats you need are Combat Reflexes, Gang up, and Phalanx Formation.


Hm, I doubt the party's Rogue would like me going Rogue.

I'm thinking I'll do Two handed Fighter archtype, nab me a two handed spear with power attack and combat reflexes. The damage should be pretty big this way. Hold off on whirlwind attack until later (if at all) and work with Patrol when I can get it.

My only complaint is my movement speed. I can nab some boots of springing later, I suppose... unless someone has a better idea? :)


what about a Monk with Spear Dancing Style from the weapon master book?


Rogues synergize amazingly well though, and youd certainly not be hunting the same weapon as the party rogue. You could just go face rogue with a solid cha and focus on the bluff/diplomacy/sense motive angle.

Seriously, think of the flanking damage and opportunities with 2 rogues 1 having reach.

Grand Lodge

Ryan Freire wrote:

Rogues synergize amazingly well though, and youd certainly not be hunting the same weapon as the party rogue. You could just go face rogue with a solid cha and focus on the bluff/diplomacy/sense motive angle.

Seriously, think of the flanking damage and opportunities with 2 rogues 1 having reach.

And then think about the first elemental you fight that shows mundane classes with d8 HD, crap saves and precision based damage should not be on the front lines without someone who can carry them.

Reality check time.

Now I suggest keep the spear you want to play with and go Barbarian, Slayer, Ranger, bloodrager, paladin, or warpriest. All of them bring more to the table than fighter. Most those classes end up being a better fighter than the fighter.

Last piece of advice.

Don't get hung up on class names like Fighter or Rogue. There are many classes that can do thier jobs better. The name is an ideal. Playing a Fighter is great when you roll attacks...the rest of his life is pure boredom or suffering. Most people RP them same...wanna be ladies man with a heavy drinking problem. Because it does not take a dice roll to get drunk and heroes get tail from bar wenches even with a 5 CHA. (Or higher).


If you have a cooperative GM, maybe see if he'll let you play as a swashbuckler but instead of the light/one-handed weapon class traits, apply them to a spear?


I like Fighter.

Here's what I'd do:

- Human
- Fighter
- For traits, Defender of Society and Indomitable Faith

PB: S15 D16+2 C14 I10 W12 CH7

Feats:

1. Weapon Focus (Spear)
H. Spear Dancing Style
1B. TWF
2B. Spear Dancing Spiral
3. Weapon Finesse
4B. Spear Dancing Reach, +1 STR
5. Weapon Training > Thrown (spear is included here)
5. Advanced Weapon Training > Versatile Training > Thrown > Acrobatics, Perception (score in terms of new class skills and full ranks!)
6B. Combat Reflexes
7. ITWF
8B. Double Slice, +1 DEX
9. Iron Will
9. Weapon Training >Advanced Weapon Training > Armed Bravery
10B. Advanced Weapon Training > Trained Grace
11. Two-Weapon Rend
12B. Cut from the Air, +1 DEX
13. Weapon Training > Advanced Weapon Training > Weapon Mastery > Spellcut
14B. Smash from the Air

This gives you a hilarious TWF reach spear fighter who can smash missiles in midair while remaining terribly agile when using heavy armor.


"Now I suggest keep the spear you want to play with and go Barbarian, Slayer, Ranger, bloodrager, paladin, or warpriest. All of them bring more to the table than fighter. Most those classes end up being a better fighter than the fighter."

Hm, this is an interesting statement. I would have thought Fighter and all it's bonus feats would be the king of melee damage. How would these classes be 'better' than a fighter?


bookwormbabe29 wrote:

"Now I suggest keep the spear you want to play with and go Barbarian, Slayer, Ranger, bloodrager, paladin, or warpriest. All of them bring more to the table than fighter. Most those classes end up being a better fighter than the fighter."

Hm, this is an interesting statement. I would have thought Fighter and all it's bonus feats would be the king of melee damage. How would these classes be 'better' than a fighter?

I personally think my build cannot be replicated or imitated by any other class, at least :7

It:

1. Has great defenses, thanks to Armor Training, Armed Bravery, Iron Will and good DEX -- combined with Cut from the Air, Spellcut and Smash from the Air to protect from ranged attacks.

2. Deals a ton of damage thanks to TWF, Two-Weapon Rend, and a million AoO.

3. It's a TWF reach build that can become a TWF close quarter build at a demand!

4. It could even go into later levels as a switch-hitter build with Ricochet Shot, Point-Blank Shot and Rapid Shot.

Liberty's Edge

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Most people RP them same...wanna be ladies man with a heavy drinking problem. Because it does not take a dice roll to get drunk and heroes get tail from bar wenches even with a 5 CHA. (Or higher).

I've yet to see a fighter with a CHA of 5 get any kind of tail other than from Sympathy in some games.

now as for the character build.

Fighter is a great start for the character the first five levels of fighter are great for specializing in a single weapon and then start taking at least three levels of ranger. That way you can get your favorite enemy & terrain advantages not to mention the Combat style feats.

between these two, you should be doing pretty well. Since you seem to want to play human I also think getting to level 5 & 6 (if you stay fighter) taking the human Combat Feat from Advanced Races 'Martial Versatility' that way you can apply all the combat bonuses from Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization to all weapons in your weapon group (spears)
which means you'd have the same to hit & Bonus damage from your feats for all these fun 'Spear' weapons: javelin, lance, longspear, shortspear, spear,
and trident.

so

1- weapon Focus [Long Spear]
1- Dodge
2- Mobility
3- Combat Expertise
4- Weapon Specialization [Long Spear]
5- Martial Versatility [Weapon Focus: Long Spear]
6- Martial Versatility [Weapon Spec: Long Spear]

Giving you a +12/+7 base with all spear weapons and a +7 with any spear weapon used with only one hand, +10 Damage with two-handed.

some GM's I've known will let Half-Elves & Half-Orcs take the human feats since they are Half-humans. But consult with your GM about their own tastes :-)


I'd look at the reach weapons as a shopping list for both damage and things to do. You've got some interesting options when you want to, say, relieve an enemy of such burdens as 'standing' or 'being armed' with some of them.

That said, it comes down to what you want to do. Stab a lot? Most classes. Sometimes stab from a horse? Mounted builds and lance, which is a two-hander when your mount wanders off. No-touchy zone? Combat Reflexes and whatever else you want to do to people 10' away, although that build leans towards fighter for raw feats, I think.


So for the curious, my build is shaping up like nothing I first thought of, naturally lol.

So at the moment, I have skinwalker (Fanglord) Ranger with the infiltrator archetype. Her favored enemy is 'animal' allowing her access to increased land speed, climb speed, swim speed, dark vision and/or the 'see in darkness' abilities to maximize her utility. She also has 'jump' once a day to do any of her crazy pole vault antics with her pole arm, which I'm leaning towards Bardice at the moment to go for a tribal/jungle feel, with the blade having a claw/tooth of some beast she hunted down.

I decided against Combat patrol for Whirlwind attack, and to get around the feat tax used one of the 'faith' based ranger combat styles that gives whirlwind attack at level 6. I'll grab Combat Reflexes for level 1, nab Improved Initiative from her combat feat, and I'm guessing power attack from level 3, as I do want her to be a damage dealer.

Not really sure where to go from there, not being the biggest melee person. I'm happy with her utility, now I just need to hit often and hard. I know I don't want to to TWF (that seems like such a head ache and I've never seen it work well) so I'm guessing things like weapon focus, lunge, and improved critical. I was debating doing a level dip into Brawler and grab combat expertise, letting me use flexibility to use any of the combat maneuvers... but I think if I'm going to dip I'd be better served dipping to Barbarian for Rage.

Not sure, really, but see as it develops.


That faith style would be Sarenrae. Hope you enjoy sun worship as a wolf.

Lantern Lodge

Have you consider a spear thrower build?

There are new feats in weapon master's handbook that make thrower builds viable now.


I would go cleric 1/monk 2+. Going cleric with a deity whose favored weapon is a spear or other reach weapon of choice just so you can get guided hand and crusaders flurry. This turns you into a wisdom based killing machine with tons of ki points and wisdom perks(AC as well). If you want to be a mouth you could take conversion inquisition and then be a generalist. Wisdom into flesh trait would make acrobatics a wisdom skill so now everything but damage is covered in one attribute so you can then be tablet with higher con than usual. Any number of monk archetypes could be used so as to make it your own.... Weapon master gets some nice fighter only feats, and even base monk is solid with spell resistance and flurry, and don't get me started on sohei.

You won't get the feats you mentioned as fast with said build but it's not too far behind because many of the requisits are given to a monk at level 1 and 2.


What a lot of diverse responses to this thread!

I've been working on a build with the Phalanx Soldier Archetype, using a Lucerne Hammer in 1 hand and a shield in the other. Use Great Cleave and hit opponents near and far.

Shield Slam, Greater Bull Rush and Paired Opportunist

Maybe a Throwing Shield and Blinkback Belt.

I like the False Opening Feat, but I havent' figured out how to work it in.


Spear throwing, TWF and the like have their uses, but the one thing I'm trying to stick to is a 2 handed pole arm with reach. Our 4 person party has 3 casters and me, so I'm trying to stick semi-close to them and be able to hit opponents as they approach with AoO. Hit with lunge/whirlwind attack at later levels as any melee enemies are going to be trying to rush the casters while said caster blow apart the enemies ranged combatants. If I were going to go range, I'd just go with archery, you know? OR heck, another wizard...


The Phalanx Soldier Archetype I mentioned does use a Reach Pole Arm, but gets to use it 1 handed and a Shield in the other.

I like the idea of using Great Cleave, Shield Slam, Greater Bull Rush, and Paired Opportunist, multiclassing with Warpriest or maybe Inquisitor.

Great Cleave is cheaper than Whirlwind Attack, and does pretty much the same thing, and Power Attack branches into Bull Rushing nicely. While Great Cleaving, you can skewer people with your Lucerne Hammer at 10' and at the same time Bash adjacent opponents with your Shield, then with Shield Slam, Bull Rush them back to get skewered by your 'Hammer.

Shield slamming can be potentially very powerful, allowing you to loop attacks of opportunity, and with the Bashing Enchantment you can get your Base Damage up to 2d6.

And if you are taking Combat Reflexes and Paired Opportunist, you might as well take Bodyguard and give your protected charges Attacks of Opportunity, too.

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