More hard cover special edition APs like Rise?


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion

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The Exchange

Team (James Jacobs, Erik, or Wes), are you guys going to do any more hard bound special edition adventure paths like you did Rise? I would love to see an updated hard bound: Legacy of Fire, Skulls and Shackles, World Wound, Reign of Winter and Serpents Skull. Or even Carrion Crown. Is there thought on this in the future?

I am hoping so. These would be great to update with the new classes, typo correction and revised info.


They've said it's unlikely. A large chunk of Paizo's income comes from selling the 12 adventure path books each year. If people knew they'd be bound into a single book with extras somewhere down the line, it would take a big bite out of there yearly income.

However, they've also said it isn't impossible.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dude, use the search function. This topic gets one thread per month, on average.

Silver Crusade Contributor

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I feel like we need a pinned thread for this topic...


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Kalindlara wrote:
I feel like we need a pinned thread for this topic...

They did, it's on the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition page.

Honestly, making it sticky won't prevent people from starting these threads. Everyone wants their opinion seen, and acknowledged, a sticky thread won't help with that.

As far search functions, don't be such a jerk about it Gorbacz, no one uses the search engine when they start out, try being more gracious about helping out.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Flynn Greywalker wrote:

Team (James Jacobs, Erik, or Wes), are you guys going to do any more hard bound special edition adventure paths like you did Rise? I would love to see an updated hard bound: Legacy of Fire, Skulls and Shackles, World Wound, Reign of Winter and Serpents Skull. Or even Carrion Crown. Is there thought on this in the future?

I am hoping so. These would be great to update with the new classes, typo correction and revised info.

I guarantee you that even if - and that's a big if - they do another Anniversary Edition, it won't be any of these. The only one that even has a shot is Legacy of Fire, and it's in line behind Curse of the Crimson Throne and Second Darkness (and possibly Kingmaker) for updating. That's in addition to JonGarrett's point up above.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news in this regard, I suppose. ^_^

Silver Crusade Contributor

captain yesterday wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
I feel like we need a pinned thread for this topic...
They did, it's on the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition page.

The one in the FAQs? It doesn't seem to be working. ^_^

Silver Crusade

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captain yesterday wrote:


As far search functions, don't be such a jerk about it Gorbacz, no one uses the search engine when they start out, try being more gracious about helping out.

I hail from the days of old, of early Usenet and BBS. Back then, asking a question before consulting the FAQ and archives was a crime. You whippersnappers have grown way too soft!


Have we grown soft or do you "older" members need to lighten up?

that's a great question! which of course can only be settled in a thread about Alignment, 2 Paladins, a Rouge, and one Succubus.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Isn't 1 Paladin torturing an orphanage full of baby succubi enough?


But you need the Rouge (I'm misspelling that on purpose btw) acting as a moral compass. :-)

And everyone that's everyone knows everything burns faster with two Paladins. :-)


If two paladins set each other on fire, how fast do they burn down to their socks? (Also, do they fall?)

Just kidding. I'd love to see Legacy of Fire updated, too.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:


As far search functions, don't be such a jerk about it Gorbacz, no one uses the search engine when they start out, try being more gracious about helping out.
I hail from the days of old, of early Usenet and BBS. Back then, asking a question before consulting the FAQ and archives was a crime. You whippersnappers have grown way too soft!

I hail from the old days of Usenet, too (RACMX, alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer). Back then, when somebody was behaving like an ass, we got to tell him that to his face, not have moderators jump on our heads when we did that.


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Was that back when you had to put your phone receiver in a special thingy.

Shadow Lodge

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captain yesterday wrote:
Was that back when you had to put your phone receiver in a special thingy.

Yup. Fortunately, the receivers were connected to said special thingies by a springy wire, so you always knew where they were. Mine even had a rotary dial.

As for the OP, don't forget the pretty special circumstances that lead to the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition in the first place. A dearth of printed stock coincided with still-strong demand around the 10th anniversary of the Adventure Path line. There might - might - be a hardcover edition of another Adventure Path if those conditions are ever replicated. For example, if Paizo runs out of Curse of the Crimson Throne (picked because it's popular) stock around the 15th or 20th anniversary.

The Exchange

captain yesterday wrote:

Have we grown soft or do you "older" members need to lighten up?

that's a great question! which of course can only be settled in a thread about Alignment, 2 Paladins, a Rouge, and one Succubus.

Thank you for the support captain I was getting the "Debbie Downer" feeling. And by the way, the 6 AP plus supporting document method works if you keep publishing the path. Paizo has gone to the limited run approach and you can't get a lot of the older Path books unless you buy the PDFs and print them.

The Exchange

zimmerwald1915 wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Was that back when you had to put your phone receiver in a special thingy.

Yup. Fortunately, the receivers were connected to said special thingies by a springy wire, so you always knew where they were. Mine even had a rotary dial.

As for the OP, don't forget the pretty special circumstances that lead to the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition in the first place. A dearth of printed stock coincided with still-strong demand around the 10th anniversary of the Adventure Path line. There might - might - be a hardcover edition of another Adventure Path if those conditions are ever replicated. For example, if Paizo runs out of Curse of the Crimson Throne (picked because it's popular) stock around the 15th or 20th anniversary.

Agreed.

The Exchange

If they are going to do limited runs on the print additions and only offer the PDFs for players who come in later, why not pick an Adventure Path every 3-4 years after it is published, revise it with typo corrections, new material, revised NPCs with a mix of the new classes? It will make them the same or more as the PDFs and make it a new classic hit for the next generations.

I would love to get some of the material for Kingmaker, Jade Regent, Carrion Crown, and others. However, the first book is next to I,possible to get in print unless I'm willing to pay $60 or more on EBay. That's nuts.

I'm all about Paizo making lots of money and bringing back the classics. That is why Dungeon Crawl Classics and other classic remakes are still around for DnD.


Interestingly: Lots of 3PP adventures go the "one big book" format, and this was hugely preferred when people were asked. Paizo's model probably isn't going to change, but there definitely seems to be a market for big adventure tomes.


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Flynn Greywalker wrote:

If they are going to do limited runs on the print additions and only offer the PDFs for players who come in later, why not pick an Adventure Path every 3-4 years after it is published, revise it with typo corrections, new material, revised NPCs with a mix of the new classes? It will make them the same or more as the PDFs and make it a new classic hit for the next generations.

because in the long run, they will lose money? why trouble yourself and buy new APs on a monthly basis when you just have to wait a couple of years and get the same content in hardcover, with typo corrections, additional material and revisions for less than the six softcover books did cost together? better cancel your subscription and wait.

Paizo needs the subscription money on a monthly basis. that's the way their business model works.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also, it's 2015. PDFs aren't aliens from outer space, they're the way to get out of print things without having to splash 60 bucks on Ebay.

Grand Lodge

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to be precise, it's 2016 :)


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I think, in Poland, they might be counting backwards now...

Silver Crusade

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Damn right we do! No Germans or Americans will be telling us what year it is!

Grand Lodge

(I'm Belgian ;op)


Gorbacz wrote:
Damn right we do! No Germans or Americans will be telling us what year it is!

... or that bicycles and vegetarians are not the end of the world...

Silver Crusade

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Belgians driving bicycles while munching celery is why the Western world is falling apart. Our only hope is to lock ourselves in our Fiat 126's and munch down some Weiner schnitzels.


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I'd really like the rest of old APs written for 3.5 OGL to get updated for Pathfinder in a nifty hardcover volume like RotR. I don't think updating those oldesst APs would affect their business model much, and it would be really helpful for those of us who are relatively new to the game, want to run the old APs with their groups (I personally feel that running them in order works well to introduce the group to Golarion), but are too lazy to look for encounter conversions.


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I'd love for some of the 3.5 and older out-of-print APs to get re-printed (looking at you, my Kingmaker collection missing 2 and 4), but I'm not holding my breath. From what the devs have said, the reprints are a lot of work to put together, which presumably would leave them less time to do new stuff.

I know the PDFs exist, but I like physical books. I seem to lack the ability to focus on reading something on the computer that's more than 10 pages, so it takes me forever to get through the PDFs I do have. I'd have a lot of difficulty trying to run an adventure path that way.


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To be honest, it would not surprise me at all if they put toghether another Pathfinder conversion of one of the 3.5 APs for the 10th anniversary of the Pathdinder line... which would be next year...

My money would be on a conversion of Curse of the Crimson Throne. It remains extremely popular, and Edge of Anarchy, Seven Days to the Grave, and Escape From Old Korvosa are all out of print.


If I were a betting man, I'd put money on a 2017 release of the Curse of the Crimson Throne Anniversary Edition hardback. It will be the 15 year anniversary of Paizo as a company, the 10 year anniversary of the Pathfinder AP line, and a full 5 years since they updated Runelords. Logically it makes sense.


I agree. Although I think Kingmaker is another viable candidate - it's also nearly totally out of print and there's a lot that could use an update in the kingdom rules.

Silver Crusade Contributor

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It's probably completely unrelated... but James Jacobs is taking some time off from development of the new APs. Maybe he's making time for his older creations?

/speculation


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If I had a vote on another Compilation it would be for Second Darkness and I know he also thinks it would benefit from a revisit, so....fingers crossed. :)

Having said that - I wouldn't mind a Sandpoint, Varisia or Absalom boxed set either, so i can cross my fingers for any of those too.

Silver Crusade Contributor

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I'd love a revised Second Darkness. CotCT and KM just need a fresh coat of paint... SD needs the kind of help that only a compilation would give.


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Well Crimson Throne is my vote, but I think everyone is indeed correct that it, SD, and KM are at the top of that list. If it happens it remains to be seen which one will be chosen.

Steve....a box set....*drools*


CotCT was my first AP and it is still one of my favorite. Loved to see a compiled version (and a better image for Laori, cause the ones on the books are horrible).


Don't bet on a box set.

Vic Wertz and Eric Mona have both gone on record to say that RPG box sets aren't profitable at any price-point that people would actually pay.

The only box set Paizo has ever produced for Pathfinder is the Beginner Box. This is purely speculation, but it would not surprise me at all if I learned that the Beginner Box was intentionally sold as a loss-leader.


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Kalindlara wrote:

It's probably completely unrelated... but James Jacobs is taking some time off from development of the new APs. Maybe he's making time for his older creations?

/speculation

We also got a mini of Allevrah in the Rusty Dragon Inn Pathfinder Battles set.

/conspiracy-theorizing


Haladir wrote:

Don't bet on a box set.

Vic Wertz and Eric Mona have both gone on record to say that RPG box sets aren't profitable at any price-point that people would actually pay.

The only box set Paizo has ever produced for Pathfinder is the Beginner Box. This is purely speculation, but it would not surprise me at all if I learned that the Beginner Box was intentionally sold as a loss-leader.

Yeah, I'm not expecting one but I still want one.


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Fallyrion Dunegrién wrote:
CotCT was my first AP and it is still one of my favorite. Loved to see a compiled version (and a better image for Laori, cause the ones on the books are horrible).

The upcoming release of Ultimate Intrigue, with the Vigilante class (tailor-made for a certain NPC in Curse of the Crimson Throne) might help.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Kalindlara wrote:
I'd love a revised Second Darkness. CotCT and KM just need a fresh coat of paint... SD needs the kind of help that only a compilation would give.

But, an Anniversary edition of Curse of the Crimson Throne would provide an opportunity to re-illustrate Laori Vaus.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Lord Fyre wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
I'd love a revised Second Darkness. CotCT and KM just need a fresh coat of paint... SD needs the kind of help that only a compilation would give.

But, an Anniversary edition of Curse of the Crimson Throne would provide an opportunity to re-illustrate Laori Vaus.

The problem is that we don't know what Erik wants changed. It sounds like what he needs changed to make a mini would alter the character too radically for most peoples' desires. (Personally, I like her just fine the way she is.)

Besides, they could just reillustrate her in another product, as they did in Faiths of Corruption. We don't need a once-every-five-years-at-best book just for one piece of art.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kalindlara wrote:
Besides, they could just reillustrate her in another product, as they did in Faiths of Corruption. We don't need a once-every-five-years-at-best book just for one piece of art.

It is indeed, one the weaker arguments... for my obvious (to anyone who has the misfortune of following my posts) choice.

Curse of the Crimson Throne- A perennial contender in "favorite AP" threads, and its rules are not Pathfinder RPG rules.

Kingmaker- Another perennial frontrunner. Uses Pathfinder rules, but could be improved, especially given the wealth of new classes and options that have come out since it debuted- and collecting it into a single bound volume would address some of its hiccups.

Second Darkness- Needs a near-complete overhaul- where the story isn't in need of massive tweaks, the mechanics all are. And an anniversary edition could do it. The hitch there is that its popularity is, well, low. The marketing blitz would have to be INSANE.

Legacy of Fire- Also needs the rules updated, and some nudges, but with a little work, it could be AMAZING.

And so on. Honestly, the "no-go" list is much shorter.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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Kalindlara wrote:
The problem is that we don't know what Erik wants changed. It sounds like what he needs changed to make a mini would alter the character too radically for most peoples' desires. (Personally, I like her just fine the way she is.)

I agree. And, admittedly "cute girl in a razor-blade catsuit" is very much a part of what made her popular in the first place.


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I like that she's so cheerful.

Dark Archive

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Can't say much since never played or read Crimson Throne, but that suit doesn't look very self mutilating .-. Well besides being hard to take off :P And it does look pretty silly

The cheerful girl dedicated to torture god aspect sounds hilarious in good way though

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

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My problem with Laori Vaus as far as minis are concerned is that I feel that the artistic style of her illustration doesn't quite match the Pathfinder aesthetic. Accordingly, I think she'd make for a pretty boring miniature. Flat color, very difficult to sculpt spikes, and a goofy face is a good recipe for a bad miniature.


Haladir wrote:

Don't bet on a box set.

Vic Wertz and Eric Mona have both gone on record to say that RPG box sets aren't profitable at any price-point that people would actually pay.

The only box set Paizo has ever produced for Pathfinder is the Beginner Box. This is purely speculation, but it would not surprise me at all if I learned that the Beginner Box was intentionally sold as a loss-leader.

I think this is mostly true.

I could have sworn I got my bestiary pawns in a box though...so not necessarily a box set like the BB, but it's still a box set...but basically composed of pawns.

Of course my memory could be faulty (I consolidated my pawns into a plastic tuperware type container), but I could have sworn I got them in a box originally.


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On another note, would LOVE a Kingmaker Hardcover.

Not so sure, probably would get a CotCT hardcover...but not absolutely. It's actually pretty easy to convert to 3.5 as it is. (edit: Who am I kidding, of course I'd get it...if nothing else than that I get all the AP's I can get in hardcover).

Kingmaker has Ultimate Campaign and other things to address that I'd love to see in an updated KM.

Second Darkness could be fun, but I'd want to see some massive changes...but still would love that one as well.

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