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I had a new player at my table wonder why I make NPC's (Aristocrats, Commoners, Experts and warriors) and some other NPC's react to non-standard races with fear, hatred or other assort-ly negative reactions on the first meetings.
I pointed out most common NPC's don't know knowledge everything.
PC= "Well they know a Zombie when they see one right?"
Me= "Technically yes, but they'd also think a Lich was a zombie, just one that strangely can talk"
PC= "That seems dumb."
me= "Not dumb, uneducated. Most commoners know what a dragon is."
PC= "See that proves my point they know good monsters from bad"
Me= "They know dragons, fly, breath dangerous stuff, eat cattle & humans
but they won't really know the difference between they types of dragons. It's called Everyman knowledge. We know generally how to change light bulbs, but not everyone knows how to fix the wiring inside a fixture."
PC= "...." back to game
So I was wondering for future advice for this player as I can see him getting upset having to prove to people that his Lizard Folk barbarian is not a monster in each new town (not to mention he is currently just bordering on an alignment change from CN to CE just because he uses dirty tactics and state it's fine as CN to kill if he get's 'made fun of' or kill several people if attacked by a lone enemy by sneak attack and the villagers help a human against the monster when he attacks them. )
Dot for later...
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I guess you could houserule some kind of fame system , not the one from the book directly , but one that uses similar ideas , so he could send bards to a city ahead of him to inform people of who he is...
Ofc this will cost him gold each time or just monthly if the bards always work for him...
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The notion of "Everyman Knowledge" is formalized in Pathfinder via the take 10 system. You can make knowledge checks untrained if the DC is no more than 10, and you can take 10 on them. This means that any turnip farmer with an intelligence of 10 or better knows everything of DC 10 or less (although he may forget under stress, as might any of us), and even the dumbest schnook in the village knows everything of DC 5 or less.
For common monsters, the DC is 5 + the CR of the monster to know something useful about it, so there's no excuse for any but the dumbest peasant not to know enough about lizardfolk to know that they're bad juju. Ditto for goblins, orc, et cetera.
This is RAW; feel free to tell him to suck it up and deal.
For rare monsters -- and there's only one of him, so he's not merely rare, but unique -- the DC goes up to 15+CR. Since lizardfolk are CR 1, this means that only the brightest turnip farmer (Int 22+) will automatically know that he's not a typical ravening monster; probably beyond any level 1 humanoid. A few bright and trained ones might be able to roll for it, but most will probably fail.
This, again, is RAW.
I think Nox Aeterna has the right idea. He needs a way to create circumstance bonuses that will allow people bonuses on this check. If there were +6 circumstance bonus their knowledge roll, then anyone with 10 or better Int would know that "this lizardman is different." How he creates that circumstance bonus is up to him.
"Monster" PCs need to prove that they go against the grain. Tell him to go and read the Crystal Shard.
Once he has rescued those villagers for the fifth time and they finally warm up to him, then you can change the location of the campaign!! : )
A PC in my group is playing a Lizard Folk Cleric in the Skull and Shackles. The rest of the crew are scared to death of him. Going in to see the crazy, mumbo jumbo witch doctor sawbones is pretty terrifying.
Worth noting, however, that without a trained Knowledge skill, you can't beat a DC 10 Knowledge check.
That means that, if he's unique, they'll never have any way to know, no matter how intelligent they are.
Creatures can answer basic questions for CR 5 or less, but have no hope of getting any of the details right on any of the most common of those CRs (so dragons are right out, even wyrmlings) as noted by Orfamay.
That said... Diplomacy can be used untrained to Gather Information... and, amongst the gossipy commoners, it is... and often. Of course, a +0 (the standard score for most) doesn't exactly get you solid information, especially since you can't take 10 or 20.
With the reputation and fame rules, you can grant a bonus to their Gather Information checks equal to the accomplishments of your PC to allow those commoners to start hearing rumors of this weird lizardfolk () hero () who helps even those who fear and hate him, if their innocent (), who happened to do this really hardcore thing this one time...
... which might help even slowly change the perception of lizardfolk in general...
Otherwise, that system has a lot of great stuff to help you out.
Hope it helps!
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As cavernshark points out. He should have known this would happen as it obviously shows in the fluff text of the race itself:
Uninterested in colonization of the dry lands and content with the simple weapons and rituals that have served them well for millennia, lizardfolk are viewed by many other races as backwater savages, but within their isolated communities lizardfolk are actually a vibrant people filled with tradition and an oral history stretching back to before humans walked upright.
I agree with the general sentiment that he is playing a normally monstrous race that the majority of people are frightened of and would be...unkind towards if not outright violently hostile.
It's part of what makes the world interesting instead of lizardfolk being human with the mechanics filed out for slightly different mechanics.
Heck, it actually really bothers me when unusual races don't get treated differently than the core races. The core races compose the majority of sentient life on Golarion and misunderstandings, xenophobia, etc are all common things in real life. So it should come as no surprise that when you play a scary race that most people have never seen before, some people are going to freak out.
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The cantina scene in Star Wars/Episode 4 says it best: "We don't SERVE their kind here. Your droids... they'll have to wait outside." PCs who either by race or perceived occupation stand out from the norm in an area should garner attention in some way and not all of this will be positive.
I don't know that "fear, hatred or other assort-ly negative reactions" is the automatic level of default. It might be as simple as "Unfriendly" on the Diplomacy scale. The lizardfolk walks into a bar and the bartender just shouts "we don't serve their kind here!" Doesn't need to be a lynch mob or screams of abject terror, though I suppose that's a "negative" reaction.
But what if you mixed it up?
Imagine this dude walks into the town and he's singled out by a couple street thugs. They want to fight him, not because he's a monster but because they see him as a threat to their gang. After learning some stuff about him via Diplomacy/Gather Info, the thugs are impressed and admire the Lizardfolk's potential as an enforcer.
Anyway yes; typically PCs should expect some kind of social stigma. These are people who make their living not by working at some job, craft or profession, but rather they murder foes (good or evil doesn't matter), loot the corpses and then also rob those foes' homes or bases of operations. PCs:
- openly carry weapons, wear armor and may at any given time be able to employ earth-shattering magic
- often have no permanent home and may in fact be transients
- Pay no regular taxes or tithes other than the common standard of living
- typically resort to violence when a conflict arises
In my opinion every person in the party that presents themselves as an "adventurer" runs the risk of falling into the above social assumptions. Outsiders are weird; adventurers are little more than pirates; add in a lizardfolk race and I don't think the player should be surprised in a potential Unfriendly encounter.
As always have the conversation with your players. Voice your concerns, honestly hear theirs and try to find a middle ground that's fun for everyone. If the lizardfolk player or anyone else isn't willing to compromise, you may need to just push forward with your persecutions.
Most importantly - he should have known before building the character that this is how your setting operates. Whose fault this is depends: on one end, if you have a custom setting and you knew he was rolling a lizardfolk and never told him it would be feared, that's your mistake, whereas on the other hand if you're playing in Golarion and he never told you his character plans then that's probably his bad.
Regardless, it's good to get character concepts up-front and give advance warning about this kind of stuff.
I had a new player at my table wonder why I make NPC's (Aristocrats, Commoners, Experts and warriors) and some other NPC's react to non-standard races with fear, hatred or other assort-ly negative reactions on the first meetings.
I pointed out most common NPC's don't know knowledge everything.
PC= "Well they know a Zombie when they see one right?"
Me= "Technically yes, but they'd also think a Lich was a zombie, just one that strangely can talk"
PC= "That seems dumb."
me= "Not dumb, uneducated. Most commoners know what a dragon is."
PC= "See that proves my point they know good monsters from bad"
Me= "They know dragons, fly, breath dangerous stuff, eat cattle & humans
but they won't really know the difference between they types of dragons. It's called Everyman knowledge. We know generally how to change light bulbs, but not everyone knows how to fix the wiring inside a fixture."
PC= "...." back to gameSo I was wondering for future advice for this player as I can see him getting upset having to prove to people that his Lizard Folk barbarian is not a monster in each new town (not to mention he is currently just bordering on an alignment change from CN to CE just because he uses dirty tactics and state it's fine as CN to kill if he get's 'made fun of' or kill several people if attacked by a lone enemy by sneak attack and the villagers help a human against the monster when he attacks them. )
Some of the descriptions given here (such as the disagreement on what actions a character can take and still remain in an alignment) makes it sound like there's something more than an issue of common knowledge here, like this is part of a greater clash of playstyles between you/your group and the new player. What other conversations has the group had regarding general game style and world expectations?
In my opinion, the whole idea of weird character is being weird.
If player is afraid what npc:s are thinking of him, he should play plain human.
BAD Years ago in game one my friend got swallobed dragon or some beast and he just whacked his way out of the stomach. Then he searched the whole length of its intestines if there was a magic ring or something. Week later (in game time) we returned to city and he suddenly said that he still haven't washed himself. We went in, sold the 'treasure' of orc weapons etc in different shops, haggled with prizes and finally got the rooms at inn. I was quite bit dissappointed that nobody reacted him anyway or tried even shoo us out of their stores. Not even when we left without bying or selling anything.
GOOD Two months ago, different gm did better job of recognizing our characters, when soldiers did not allowed me to enter into city, because my barbarian was shoanti! Just because they were war with some tribes. Ofcourse I was bit dissappointed, but I liked it lot, because my choice of character was noted and reacted.
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I get the impression that the player tries to justify (or get away with) his PCs behaviour by challenging the game worlds/NPCs reactions as dumb.
A lizardfolk barbarian - a monster prone to falling into a murderous rage - sounds like an archetype for everything a human commoner could be afraid about. And if the character behaves accordingly, he would be seen as a menace to every civilized settlement, and treated accordingly. PCs are probably seen as a wild card from the NPCs point of view, as outlined above, similar to the stereotypical Western cowboy. These types are at times a necessary evil, but troublemakers at other times, and with the potential to murder others at a drop of a hat. Add the monster race to that picture, and this lizardfolk will get closely monitored by the authorities and probably punished harshly for the slightest trouble. (His partners in crime likewise)
The CN alignment is sometimes used as an excuse for erratic behaviour bordering on the murderously insane. I don´t think that that is what CN is about. According to the definition given "A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn't strive to protect others' freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions." This gives a lizardfolk all reason to break his peoples traditions by going on adventures, and would be a sound reasoning for adventuring in the first place. But it is not an excuse for murdering people, rather an attempt to get evil behaviour in gameplay when restricted by the GM. Killing people on the slightest insult is evil in my book.
The knowledge question should be judged from an in-game perspective. The societal level of most fantasy RPGs is somewhere between middle ages and early modern ages, with a few extremes in either direction. This holds true for Pathfinder IMO. Most common people would have only the barest of education, reflected by the fact that commoners and warriors (arguably the most common NPC types) do not have any knowledge skills as class skills. Folks with "higher" education are experts (possibly), aristocrats and adepts, with the adept having low skill point allotments and thus, possibly not taking a lot of knowledge skills. Commoners and warriors dabbling in knowledge skills limit their other skills and thus reduce their effectiveness in day-to-day living in their jobs, making this very uncommon. Assuming that commoners and warriors make up 90+% of any given human population, knowledge beyond that common (DC 10) knowledge is rare, restricted to aristocrats and some PC classes, with a sprinkling of adepts and experts.
So, the broad populace would not be able to tell the difference between lizardfolk and troglodytes beyond the obvious. They would have no idea if these strange creatures are benign, hostile or anything in between, until they act accordingly. (Unless there is some prior knowledge, in which case certain monster races could be labeled as common, depending on the setting.) The typical reaction to something strange is caution, if not hostility.
Any other classes, assumed they learned the right knowledge skill, can tell the monster races apart. Yet even if someone knows that lizardfolk are normally neutral, but quite hostile in self-defense (and might know that they are cannibals), would this do any good? Hardly. Tall, upright walking creatures looking much like crocodiles and having a reputation for ferocity will get cautious reactions even from learned folks. Additionally, if somebody knows that lizardfolks do live in tribal societies, they will wonder just what this specimen is doing in or near human settlements. Is it a spy? An outcast? A trader? In this case, the looks are important. If it looks at all like a warrior, he will be treated as potentially hostile. Which city guard right in their minds would let a potential enemy even enter the city proper? IMO the DM is right in ruling that any unusual race faces hostility in any settlement populated mainly by the common races, unless the place has a history of extraordinary tolerance.
TL,DR: Unusual races should provoke reactions from the common populace, and mostly negative as well.
The CN alignment is no excuse for playing an evil character all but in name.
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We have a goblin PC in the party right now. He dresses well and is articulate, which immediately gets people thinking he might be an unusual goblin, and since he usually sticks close to the rest of the (respectable) party until establishing himself in a new place, he's often taken as an odd servant or pet. He's been told to sleep in the stables of an inn once, and chased out of a kitchen once, but making an effort to appear presentable takes the edge off of hostility.
Presuming the world is not cosmopolitan like Golarion often is, I just spell it out for them: "This world is not cosmopolitan. There are many places where the locals will react poorly to humans they're not acquainted with, let alone someone with an overtly monstrous face."
If there are places where that character may gain public acceptance, I name them: "The town with the wizard's tower has seen all kinds of things, you can pass for normal there. And the bustling port town, they've learned not to be as judgmental. But in these remote villages, you need to expect torches and pitchforks as an initial reaction."
Sometimes, just knowing that there are some places where it won't be an issue is enough to assuage their concerns.
I also have it written in my house rules: if you want to play a monster race PC, you need to be prepared to be treated as an outsider at best. But in a world like Golarion where some forty different humanoid races are accounted for, it doesn't seem necessary to enforce this as much. My homebrew is much more xenophobic.
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Golarion varies heavily. Some areas being non human is enough for racism. Other places being a wizard or cleric would receive similar reactions. These are just the places I've started APs in.
Npcs with no knowledge can make assumptions based on appearances and behavior. As an adventurer you are probably armed, a lizard folk has natural attacks that are threatening.
Npcs with no knowledge can make assumptions based on appearances and behavior. As an adventurer you are probably armed, a lizard folk has natural attacks that are threatening.
NPCs can also simply make assumptions, like "if you don't know what it is, it's probably dangerous." You know, like people on Earth do (where it's arguably a lot less reasonable). Ancient humans can be divided into two groups -- those who said "It's a thousand pounds with teeth and claws, run!" and those who said "nice kitty!" Guess which group lived long enough to become your ancestors.
"This world is not cosmopolitan. There are many places where the locals will react poorly to humans they're not acquainted with"...
I just remember what I said to my player, when I started Jade Regent.
"The folk is very eager to use torches and pitchforks on anything they don't understand. Especially on magic users and monsters, save those using symbols of local priesthood or magic school, as they try to avoid troubles with their masters. Do any character you want."I was happy that my players took the warning seriously, one particularly. He made phampire sorcerer and did so good in acting as foreign prince with temporary need of cash, that even other players thought for many levels, that he was just some old harmless (well, not for their purces) rogue.
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Many thanks for all the advice. I forgot about the Fame system, that should help a bit. (although I imagine it'll be an interesting reputation the character will get after his many 'retributions' at being mocked)
As for when the character was created. I did tell the player I tend to go with common sense reactions with NPC's.
Some examples of the rest of the group,
The elf in the group is expected by every human peasant to work some type of magic or know some ancient an mysterious lore (So far, the elf rogue has done a good job with sleight of hand tricks to get by not to mention he tends to get left alone in a room because he's obviously an elf wizard not a rogue, as for the lore.... well, those are suppose to be elven secrets that he's not allowed to talk about.)
The Half-Orc wizard was schooled by a backwater human hedge wizard (has yet to reveal if said wizard was her father or not) but even so, most of her magical rivals underestimate her ability and skill because she's of 'orcish blood' and have been surprised a few times that she can cast things other than cantrips, where as most peasants think she is some kind of witch doctor until they get to know her. The characters favorite school is Enchantment, prohibited Schools are Necromancy & Illusion
(and several of the PC's where shocked she also knew how to cook)
The Dwarf Bard Comedian, whom has met with mixed reviews in the towns the heroes have gone through. Catching not just the standard peasants off guard but his own race as well. Being anything but dour and humorless. Being quick of wit and charismatic he has charmed more than a few people, and has been quick to use the reputations of the dwarves when wooing even the married ladies. "Why good sir! I'm a dwarf have you not heard how honorable we are? you can trust me to remain here with your wife while you run your errand"
(Which as the Half-orc has told him many times will come back to bite him, but his normal response is "Have you ever heard of a half-dwarf? I think I'm safe) Although being a Dwarf most patrons that hire him expect more along the lines of Drinking Songs than a stand up comedian.
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Some of the descriptions given here (such as the disagreement on what actions a character can take and still remain in an alignment) makes it sound like there's something more than an issue of common knowledge here, like this is part of a greater clash of playstyles between you/your group and the new player. What other conversations has the group had regarding general game style and world expectations?I had a new player at my table wonder why I make NPC's (Aristocrats, Commoners, Experts and warriors) and some other NPC's react to non-standard races with fear, hatred or other assort-ly negative reactions on the first meetings.
I pointed out most common NPC's don't know knowledge everything.
PC= "Well they know a Zombie when they see one right?"
Me= "Technically yes, but they'd also think a Lich was a zombie, just one that strangely can talk"
PC= "That seems dumb."
me= "Not dumb, uneducated. Most commoners know what a dragon is."
PC= "See that proves my point they know good monsters from bad"
Me= "They know dragons, fly, breath dangerous stuff, eat cattle & humans
but they won't really know the difference between they types of dragons. It's called Everyman knowledge. We know generally how to change light bulbs, but not everyone knows how to fix the wiring inside a fixture."
PC= "...." back to gameSo I was wondering for future advice for this player as I can see him getting upset having to prove to people that his Lizard Folk barbarian is not a monster in each new town (not to mention he is currently just bordering on an alignment change from CN to CE just because he uses dirty tactics and state it's fine as CN to kill if he get's 'made fun of' or kill several people if attacked by a lone enemy by sneak attack and the villagers help a human against the monster when he attacks them. )
Well at one point he did get attacked by a single crossbow bolt from a child trying to protect his mother, He ended up attacking and killing the child (both human) and burning down the home.
The scene went like this.
The PC's ship washes up on shore, the group splits up to find food, Shelter or someone that can help. Rolling randomly on a d4 it falls on the Lizardfolk Barbarian, Seeing makeshift home in the distance he moves forward and yells out in common to see if anyone is there. A human child comes out at the yelling with a crossbow, seeing a monster he fired. I rolled a natural 20 (no screen so the player could see it was a critical) I rolled again to confirm, with success. It was here that we had the conversation about commoners and reactions when after the hit, he attacked killed and then proceeded to burn down the home as repayment for being attacked, after taking all the food he could carry to the group. Later when the group met other villagers (as of yesterday) they where shocked that no one in the village wanted anything to do with outsiders due to a 'murder of one of the children' which started more 'that doesn't make sense' talk from the Lizardfolk Barbarian with his main line of defense being "it was a child, that shot me! I defended myself. Why would the villagers be upset with a child that shoots people?" and I pointed out "You are a Lizardfolk your not people by the child's way of thinking, and two, if someone murdered a child that lived next door that person might not want to have it happen to them."
Apparently that logic didn't go over well with them, nor the fact that the enemy forces that attack them every once an awhile learn tactics and ways of dealing with strengths that took them down last time.
You have a player that doesn't like to be balked, and probably wants just a simple game of rolling the dice and killing monsters. You want something different, immersive, realistic, and probably at least at times, difficult and filled with moral questions.
Neither of these are wrong, but they are different and if one or both of you can't adapt, people aren't going to be having fun. My suggestion is that since you can't control other people, you make the change yourself. Simply and hand-wave stuff for this player. If you have a chance to present a straight forward encounter or a moral question, lean toward the straight forward, especially for solo encounters. Hopefully some of your other players enjoy your more immersive and realistic style, and you can dole out the moral dilemmas to them, but for this player try and keep it simple when you can.
Proving that you 'are right' probably won't be very effective in attaining your real goal (hopefully anyway) of everyone having fun.
Your player got balls really and you are nice guy heh , on most of my small villages , they would literally pick up their weapons and try to kill him for his actions and nope , not even one minute for the bard to try diplomacy there.
Either the party would run and fast or they would lose PCs , probably his , since he is the outsider that killed a kid and burned the home down.
Ofc assuming the vilagers knew it was him ( if they just knew it was an outsider then the whole party would be in big trouble together lols )
Still like Dave just said , maybe your player dont want to deal with the fact he is a monster race player on a world where this matters , personally i would ask him this , but i would just recomend he then make a new PC using the standard races instead of giving him a free pass.
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Your player got balls really and you are nice guy heh , on most of my small villages , they would literally pick up their weapons and try to kill him for his actions and nope , not even one minute for the bard to try diplomacy there.
Either the party would run and fast or they would lose PCs , probably his , since he is the outsider that killed a kid and burned the home down.
Ofc assuming the vilagers knew it was him ( if they just knew it was an outsider then the whole party would be in big trouble together lols )
Still like Dave just said , maybe your player dont want to deal with the fact he is a monster race player on a world where this matters , personally i would ask him this , but i would just recomend he then make a new PC using the standard races instead of giving him a free pass.
Yeah he does, but I did make a check to see if anyone in the village saw it was him torching the place and sometimes dice rolls do favor the PC's pretty well. All they knew was it was an outsider and the men of the village where out hunting and would not believe any of the women or old men would do such a thing, and the group of them did get into trouble when the lizard man offered to sell them food in the same containers to said villagers. Everyone got attacked, and they all defeated the enemy and had to stop the lizardfolk from killing anyone else in the village.
You must be having this discussion with a kid. They're the only ones I find myself having to explain obvious things to. If he's playing a lizardfolk barbarian, people should react with fear to him, unless they're in a place like Kaer Maga where no one cares anyway.
Using the Fame system from Ultimate Campaign would be a good way to gauge the population's response to a lizardfolk in their midst and would give him something to build his reputation. I would say it's only kids that play these outrageous races as heroes, but I've got a long time player that wants to run a half-ogre, so what do I know. lol
Well at one point he did get attacked by a single crossbow bolt from a child trying to protect his mother, He ended up attacking and...Some of the descriptions given here (such as the disagreement on what actions a character can take and still remain in an alignment) makes it sound like there's something more than an issue of common knowledge here, like this is part of a greater clash of playstyles between you/your group and the new player. What other conversations has the group had regarding general game style and world expectations?I had a new player at my table wonder why I make NPC's (Aristocrats, Commoners, Experts and warriors) and some other NPC's react to non-standard races with fear, hatred or other assort-ly negative reactions on the first meetings.
I pointed out most common NPC's don't know knowledge everything.
PC= "Well they know a Zombie when they see one right?"
Me= "Technically yes, but they'd also think a Lich was a zombie, just one that strangely can talk"
PC= "That seems dumb."
me= "Not dumb, uneducated. Most commoners know what a dragon is."
PC= "See that proves my point they know good monsters from bad"
Me= "They know dragons, fly, breath dangerous stuff, eat cattle & humans
but they won't really know the difference between they types of dragons. It's called Everyman knowledge. We know generally how to change light bulbs, but not everyone knows how to fix the wiring inside a fixture."
PC= "...." back to gameSo I was wondering for future advice for this player as I can see him getting upset having to prove to people that his Lizard Folk barbarian is not a monster in each new town (not to mention he is currently just bordering on an alignment change from CN to CE just because he uses dirty tactics and state it's fine as CN to kill if he get's 'made fun of' or kill several people if attacked by a lone enemy by sneak attack and the villagers help a human against the monster when he attacks them. )
Why was he not strung and quartered by the town. As the GM, you have to establish consequences for foolish PC actions. Really this character sounds like it should have been hung until dead already. This should be addressed in game immediately.
...Well at one point he did get attacked by a single crossbow bolt from a child trying to protect hisSome of the descriptions given here (such as the disagreement on what actions a character can take and still remain in an alignment) makes it sound like there's something more than an issue of common knowledge here, like this is part of a greater clash of playstyles between you/your group and the new player. What other conversations has the group had regarding general game style and world expectations?I had a new player at my table wonder why I make NPC's (Aristocrats, Commoners, Experts and warriors) and some other NPC's react to non-standard races with fear, hatred or other assort-ly negative reactions on the first meetings.
I pointed out most common NPC's don't know knowledge everything.
PC= "Well they know a Zombie when they see one right?"
Me= "Technically yes, but they'd also think a Lich was a zombie, just one that strangely can talk"
PC= "That seems dumb."
me= "Not dumb, uneducated. Most commoners know what a dragon is."
PC= "See that proves my point they know good monsters from bad"
Me= "They know dragons, fly, breath dangerous stuff, eat cattle & humans
but they won't really know the difference between they types of dragons. It's called Everyman knowledge. We know generally how to change light bulbs, but not everyone knows how to fix the wiring inside a fixture."
PC= "...." back to gameSo I was wondering for future advice for this player as I can see him getting upset having to prove to people that his Lizard Folk barbarian is not a monster in each new town (not to mention he is currently just bordering on an alignment change from CN to CE just because he uses dirty tactics and state it's fine as CN to kill if he get's 'made fun of' or kill several people if attacked by a lone enemy by sneak attack and the villagers help a human against the monster when he attacks them. )
I feel it is very important the party understands the consequences from their actions from before the game starts, it seems this was established, so it is on the player, not you.
As well I advocate the 3 point rule for alignment shifts, 3 stern warnings that they are acting (WELL) outside of their alignment (like say, murdering a child defending its home), or 1 bad 3 point failing (like say, murdering an entire town of good innocent people despite repeated warnings of a shift), gets then a change of one degree in alignment, which can destroy divine characters, or barbarians.This does sound like a Evil character disguised as a Neutral character, chaotic is selfish, not ruthless, Neutral is not being socially directed, not being murderous. I think it is time the party met with some brash, rude holy warriors (Paladins), after he is sternly warned that one more outburst of any kind gets him evil alignment.
If he wants, I am certain he can do some Karmic balance, but it might take a lot to change Parasmas mind and alter his ultimate course as a violent, monstrous, murderous, reckless, uncaring, nomadic adventuring lizardman.
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I feel it is very important the party understands the consequences from their actions from before the game starts, it seems this was established, so it is on the player, not you.
As well I advocate the 3 point rule for alignment shifts, 3 stern warnings that they are acting (WELL) outside of their alignment (like say, murdering a child defending its home), or 1 bad 3 point failing (like say, murdering an entire town of good innocent people despite repeated warnings of a shift), gets then a change of one degree in alignment, which can destroy divine characters, or barbarians.
This does sound like a Evil character disguised as a Neutral character, chaotic is selfish, not ruthless, Neutral is not being socially directed, not being murderous. I think it is time the party met with some brash, rude holy warriors (Paladins), after he is sternly warned that one more outburst of any kind gets him evil alignment.
If he wants, I am certain he can do some Karmic balance, but it might take a lot to change Parasmas mind and alter his ultimate course as a violent, monstrous, murderous, reckless, uncaring, nomadic adventuring lizardman.
Indeed, and while he made arguments that many players around the table tried to understand. I think it went something like this.
PC= "The child attacked me, I attacked back in kind it's part my own barbarian code, if it can lift a weapon then it can die as an adult."
Soooo, I'm thinking if not an alignment change a rather sudden large increase in the population putting bounties on Lizardfolk in this area to attract heroes and holy warriors. His actions might actually spark in my game world a Lizardfolk war
Why was he not strung and quartered by the town. As the GM, you have to establish consequences for foolish PC actions. Really this character sounds like it should have been hung until dead already. This should be addressed in game immediately.
Actually I've been confronting him a bit on this a few times, this is just the more recently and more over the top moments. It might be he is trying to kill off the character, without just saying he wants to change characters, as he tries very hard to power game, but seems lacking in the ability to build a character to do so effectively.