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I've a lvl 6 Hungry Ghost Monk, and I'm looking to make her a bit more versatile.
She current has some basic, but importantly she has-
Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes +1
My friend keeps telling me to invest in Monk's Robes and get the bonus AC and attack die upgrade.
But i like the idea of being able to upgrade my Bodywraps to enable elemental properties.
The Question is- should i sell the bodywraps and buy the Monk's Robes, OR should i stick with the Bodywraps and upgrade them when i have the money?
i'm also trying to save up for a boon item that's effectively a +2 Mighty Fist & Natural Armor with a couple of other enchantments for 28k.
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I've a lvl 6 Hungry Ghost Monk, and I'm looking to make her a bit more versatile.
She current has some basic, but importantly she has-
Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes +1My friend keeps telling me to invest in Monk's Robes and get the bonus AC and attack die upgrade.
But i like the idea of being able to upgrade my Bodywraps to enable elemental properties.The Question is- should i sell the bodywraps and buy the Monk's Robes, OR should i stick with the Bodywraps and upgrade them when i have the money?
i'm also trying to save up for a boon item that's effectively a +2 Mighty Fist & Natural Armor with a couple of other enchantments for 28k.
The main thing I would consider is the up-time of the bodywrap. You're only getting the benefit, once per round for one attack (capping at 4/round). If this were for PFS, then the hungry ghost monk archetype is restricted to classic monk i.e. 3/4 BAB progression and normal flurry of blows, meaning that the number of attacks you get in a flurry can quickly outpace the number of attacks that can benefit from the bodywrap. Where as monk's robes and an AoMF would benefit every attack. Biggest trade-off is price point and neck slot. Another thing to consider is that running the numbers on a flurry can get a bit clunky at higher levels; the bodywrap will add to the complexity much like my furyborn AoMF did for my 'vanilla' monk.
Also note that there may be some overlap in enhancement bonuses between your boon item and your bodywrap.
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Yes, this is for PFS.
more often than not, i'm using the Bodywrap buff on my lowest flurry roll.
Since i'm still wondering how to upgrade the bodywraps and it'll probably get more expensive as i go- it was an experiment at 3k...
As for the Gloves, i already have the Handwraps of Blinding Ki. since i does apply to my archetype, i love being able to Punishing Kick multiple enemies in the same flurry.
I want to invest in a belt of giant strength/physical might, and a headband of inspired wisdom- but that takes me farther away from my goal of getting my Boon Amulet.
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Yes, this is for PFS.
more often than not, i'm using the Bodywrap buff on my lowest flurry roll.
Since i'm still wondering how to upgrade the bodywraps and it'll probably get more expensive as i go- it was an experiment at 3k...As for the Gloves, i already have the Handwraps of Blinding Ki. since i does apply to my archetype, i love being able to Punishing Kick multiple enemies in the same flurry.
I want to invest in a belt of giant strength/physical might, and a headband of inspired wisdom- but that takes me farther away from my goal of getting my Boon Amulet.
As far as belt/headband goes vs boon item:
Neck item: 28k +2 attack/damage and +2(?) Natural Armor
Belt of Giant Strength +4: 16k +2 attack/damage and +2 str-based skills
Headband of Inspired Wisdom +4: 16k +2 AC bonus (untyped), +2CMD, +2 Will, +2 Ki, +2 Wis skills, +2 Stun/Kick DC
It's easy enough to choose the neck item over the strength belt but the benefits of a wisdom headband for a monk is very difficult to beat. You could spend 4k more than the boon neck item, get the same benefits and a whole lot more from the headband/belt combo. Plus, you could still pick up an AoMF and enchant it right away with whatever special abilities you want since it doesn't require the +1 to start.
I'm not sure if PFS would allow you to upgrade a +2 AoMF into the boon. There are some threads on being able to upgrade magic items into specific named magic items, just not sure if it being a boon restricts that. However, the belt/headband would allow you to piece-meal your stats up as you go, increasing defense or offense as needed/desired as opposed to saving up lump sums (if upgrading to the boon is not an option).
You should get more bang for your buck out of the headband, and you can get it incrementally (4K for +2, then upgrade from there) instead of waiting until you have the entire amount.
If you have enough fame, consider retraining to add the Qinggong archetype to your Hungry Ghost (you should only have to cover two class features at level 4 and 5, if I'm reading it correctly). You can pick up Barkskin as a ki power and ignore the amulet of natural armor: that will free up your neck slot for a normal AoMF and reduce the cost significantly.
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Why respec my monk just so it can learn Barkskin- that only grants a +2 NA bonus, when naturally base monks have the "1 ki to get 4 dodge AC"
Dodge stacks with touch, Natural Armor doesn't.
the other spell like abilities would be nice- give her a bit more flexibility, but i don't know how that would rework her levels.
heck reading up on the Qinggong archetype, i have no idea what it actually does aside from expanding the ki abilities.
Why respec my monk just so it can learn Barkskin- that only grants a +2 NA bonus, when naturally base monks have the "1 ki to get 4 dodge AC"
Dodge stacks with touch, Natural Armor doesn't.
the other spell like abilities would be nice- give her a bit more flexibility, but i don't know how that would rework her levels.heck reading up on the Qinggong archetype, i have no idea what it actually does aside from expanding the ki abilities.
First, the Qinggong archetype just gives you the option of replacing ki abilities: you don't have to replace any that you don't want to. And the Qinggong archetype specifically stacks with any other archetype that still has a ki pool, so nothing else has to change about your monk.
Second, the "spell" based ki powers are spell-like abilities: they have the full description of the spell and you treat your monk level as your caster level. For Barkskin, this means that it lasts 10 minutes/level (not just for 1 round), and the NA bonus scales with your level. At 6th level, Barkskin gives your monk a +3 natural armor bonus for 1 hour. At 9th level, it's +4 for 90 minutes.
Third, it was a suggestion. Feel free to ignore it.
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That is one advantage to the Barkskin spell.
If i were to take the Qinggong Archetype, what monk ability would be worth giving up to learn barkskin? High Jump/Slow Fall has proven useful, especially in my last session.
also, do the two archetype stack- are their levels split like a typical multiclass?
i'm not disregarding your suggestion, though it is out of place. I'm more asking about upgrading my monk's equipment and what would be most beneficial.
A Ring of Ki Mastery will be good for reducing the cost of ki abilities
Stone Fist Gloves increases your unarmed strike by one size category.
For neck... Amulet of Mighty Fists, is up to you how you want to magically imbue them, just remember, a monk can treat his unarmed attacks as manufactured weapons for spells ;)
For body, you could combine the body wraps versatility with the amulet for huge magic bonuses or go defense and get the Monk Robes.
That is one advantage to the Barkskin spell.
If i were to take the Qinggong Archetype, what monk ability would be worth giving up to learn barkskin? High Jump/Slow Fall has proven useful, especially in my last session.
also, do the two archetype stack- are their levels split like a typical multiclass?
You can't multiclass the same class with two different archetypes. The archetypes have to stack, or you can't take them. In this case, Qinggong stacks with all other monk archetypes.
If you are playing as a chained/core monk, there is no reason to not take Qinggong. It only helps you.
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A Ring of Ki Mastery will be good for reducing the cost of ki abilities
Stone Fist Gloves increases your unarmed strike by one size category.
For neck... Amulet of Mighty Fists, is up to you how you want to magically imbue them, just remember, a monk can treat his unarmed attacks as manufactured weapons for spells ;)
For body, you could combine the body wraps versatility with the amulet for huge magic bonuses or go defense and get the Monk Robes.
1> A Ring of Ki Mastery is nice for Monk Classes that have abilities that use multiple ki points. Unless i decide to go Qinggong, it's pretty pointless with the Hungry Ghost archetype- which doesn't get any nifty ki abilities. And with a 10k price tag, it takes me farther away from my goal of buying my Boon Amulet of Armored Fist +2
2> I already have Handwraps of Blinding ki, and i'm more of a defensive player- so the ability to use my Punishing Ki twice in one flurry outweighs the damage upgrade.You can't multiclass the same class with two different archetypes. The archetypes have to stack, or you can't take them. In this case, Qinggong stacks with all other monk archetypes.
That's good to know.
If you are playing as a chained/core monk, there is no reason to not take Qinggong. It only helps you.
Unless i'm reading the Qingong archetype wrong, it says i lose my monk abilities at certain levels for the ability to choose from a larger pool. So that means, my Hungry Ghost monk would lose all archetype-defining abilities, none of which are part of the larger pool.
How exactly is that helping? if I didn't lose the Steal Ki ability, than it'd be a great build- having a constantly replenishible ki pool and a larger ki power to chose from.
You are reading it wrong
It gives you the option to trade any original ki powers with one from the list. You could be a qmonk and choose to not trade out any powers. So for the powers you still have that hungry fist didn't take away you can trade one for barkskin.
You are reading it wrong
It gives you the option to trade any original ki powers with one from the list. You could be a qmonk and choose to not trade out any powers. So for the powers you still have that hungry fist didn't take away you can trade one for barkskin.
This. It only grants the option to do such things. It's the same as the Primalist for Bloodragers. You CAN drop one of your ki powers, like Slow Fall, and gain Barkskin. You don't have to, but it's certainly recommended. And if you decide not to, then you can also decide to drop another ki power for something else that better fits your build, or you could just not use it ever, but having the option open is always great.
There's a reason unchained monks have Quinggong built into them.
A Ring of Ki Mastery will be good for reducing the cost of ki abilities
Stone Fist Gloves increases your unarmed strike by one size category.
For neck... Amulet of Mighty Fists, is up to you how you want to magically imbue them, just remember, a monk can treat his unarmed attacks as manufactured weapons for spells ;)
For body, you could combine the body wraps versatility with the amulet for huge magic bonuses or go defense and get the Monk Robes.1> A Ring of Ki Mastery is nice for Monk Classes that have abilities that use multiple ki points. Unless i decide to go Qinggong, it's pretty pointless with the Hungry Ghost archetype- which doesn't get any nifty ki abilities. And with a 10k price tag, it takes me farther away from my goal of buying my Boon Amulet of Armored Fist +2
2> I already have Handwraps of Blinding ki, and i'm more of a defensive player- so the ability to use my Punishing Ki twice in one flurry outweighs the damage upgrade.Ok then. Well to your question about Bodywraps or Monk's Robe, if you are more defensive, you could aim to get them up to +6 with Defending property (+1) and that would give you the option to have up to a +6 to your AC which definitely beats the +1 from Monk class gained from the robes. Only downside is its limited to its number of uses per round but as the property reads you could activate it as a free action which provides some or all of its enhancement bonus to AC until the beginning of your next turn.
Now you won't really need to focus on the bark skin for your Amulet of Mighty Fists and can focus on elemental enhancements.
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ya, upgrading the Bodywrap to +6 costs 108k... it would be more effect to just take Combat Expertise. trust me, i looked into the Defending property, it just takes a lot of monetary commitment to be useful. At that point, i'd rather just focus on the elemental effects.
in my latest campaign, the GM- and a friend- was stunned with how little damage i was dealing. Granted, we were fighting demons and i'm wasn't lvl 7 yet- so no Cold Iron/Silver punches- and i didn't have a list of monk weapons off the top of my head, so i just bought a cold iron Sai. should have bought a Cold Iron Quarterstaff instead. 1d4 vs 1d6/1d6...
my stats aren't min/maxed- 14/14(+1)/14/10/14(+2)/10... so, with my sai fighting Demons, may damage, i really wasn't dealing the damage that my Paladin of Iomadae compatriot was able to deal.
with my current gold amount, i should be able to nearly afford both the Belt of Giant Strength and Monk's Robes.
now at lvl 7, with the robes, i get +3 to AC and my damage jumps to 2d6 vs 1d10.
Well, with a stat array like that, you will never do much damage. There's a reason we call it Flurry of Misses! The monk's problem is accuracy - -2 from flurry, no build-in to hit and Amulet of Mighty Fists costs twice as much as weapon enhancements.
Monk's robe is ok at levels where you skip two breakpoints (7/11/15), but not that good otherwise. At level 8, the robe is +1 to AC and +1,5 to average UAS damage. For 13k, that sucks - you need +hit more than +damage and Ring of Deflection, Bracers of Armor of Headband of Wisdom are cheaper ways to increase your AC.
Bodywrap of Paizo-hates-monks is an enhancement bonus and thus doesn't stack with Amulet of Mighty Fists. Since it only applies to half your attacks, it's definitly not a good item for monks.
May I also suggest Boots of Speed? 10 rounds of haste each day is rather strong.
Combat Expertise is total crap and should never be used. If you really want AC for the price of +hit, take Crane Style instead.
Why respec my monk just so it can learn Barkskin- that only grants a +2 NA bonus, when naturally base monks have the "1 ki to get 4 dodge AC"
Dodge stacks with touch, Natural Armor doesn't.
Sorry, but... WHAT? Barkskin lats 10min/Level. The +4 Dodge lasts 1 round and uses up your swift action, so no extra attack in that round. Oh, and you could use both...
I don't play PFS, but is Slow Fall really useful in it?
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I don't play PFS, but is Slow Fall really useful in it?
No. You have to be near a wall to use it, and any big falls are going to be over it's limit. It's completely outclassed by a ring of feather fall if you want to be safe from falls, and a ring of feather fall is easily affordable if you want it.
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As Derklord pointed out, with your strength being that low, you may want to prioritize the Belt of Giant Strength, AoMF +1, oil of magic weapon (if no other enhancement bonus) etc. There would not be much benefit to increasing damage if it is still going to miss most of the time.
I have seen a build out there that does make good use of combat expertise because it was able to reduce the penalty (don't believe it was a monk), so unless you're going for *that* build or you need to grab an improved maneuver feat beyond your bonus feats, I do not recommend taking it. There are a multitude of other defensive options out there if you need it. My monk is still using a wand of mage armor and crane style for defense.
I have definitely enjoyed the use of slowfall on my monk but, as Imbicatus pointed out, there are many situations where it cannot be used at all or it could just as easily be replaced with a climb check which is a class skill.
So for comparitive purposes, the Qinggong barkskin plus ring of feather fall option costs 2,200 (not counting retraining costs) and gives perma-feather fall and 3 natural armor @ level 6 (4 NA @ 9) from a source that doesn't takes up a neck slot or require in-combat action economy.
Slowfall plus amulet of natural armor +1, on the other hand, would cost 2,000g, keep the situational-situational ability, give 1 natural armor and take up a neck slot. My monk (first character) has no archetypes but if/when I play him as a seeker, I may retrain into Qinggong if I'm willing to part with 600g and 5pp.
Edit: I also save my ki points for the extra attack which stacks with haste effects. :)
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it's true that in PFS Slowfall is easily mitigated, and i've only ever used it once- trying to jump attack an enemy that was suspended from the ceiling. it missed and i slid down the wall.
as for my monk's stats- she was my first character and i built her without much help, so i built her to be survivable- hence the 14's.
Boots of Speed do look good; my monk bought Boots of the Winterlands in her first public PFS game [she's previously played at conventions.] because we were going to an arctic region- and it helped. but they really haven't been useful afterwards. was considering just "upgrading" to some Feather Step Slippers.
RE: Monk's Robes vs Body Wraps of Mighty Strikes. Half the time, i forget to use my Body Wrap bonus, and i more or less bought it for the purpose of upgrading it and stacking on the elemental damage. Since i hardly ever use the bonus, getting the Defending ability wouldn't hurt.
The Elemental damage could supplement the damage upgrade from monk's robes.
i wanted to get the Furyborn enchantment especially when going up against some resilient enemies, or if i keep whiffing.
Upgrading my body wraps could save me some money if i'm trying for the Boon Amulet.
I am considering selling my Bracers of Armor and getting Long Arm Bracers
Possible equipment set up:
Head: Headband of Inspired Wisdom +2
Neck: [Boon] Amulet of Armored Fist +2 [Cruel/Menacing]
Body: Body Wraps of Mighty Strikes [upgraded- Acidic, Defending]
Chest: ? Quick Runner's Shirt
Belt: Belt of Giant Strength +2 [want to upgrade to Physical Might/Perfection after getting my Boon amulet]
Wrists: Longarm Bracers
Hands: Hand wraps of Blinding Ki
Feet: Boots of Speed
Ring 1: Ring of Protection
Ring 2: Ring of Feather Fall