Dr. Strange


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ShinHakkaider wrote:

Robert Downey Jr. (an American last time I checked) was the lead in a VERY British movie with a VERY British Character. In fact TWO movies...

Maggie Gyllenhall starred last year in the critically acclaimed british mini-series THE HONORABLE WOMAN.

Robert Vaughn was in HUSTLE.

Jeremy Piven is the lead MR. SELFRIDGE.

GIllian Anderson is the lead in THE FALL.

There are American actors in british productions but being as the US Entertainment industry dwarfs the UK one considerably I'm not surprised that there are more of them working here than us working there.

What's your source for this? I caught one a few years ago with Robert Downey playing... Sherlock Holmes. I'm guessing that was an English production, looked like it was shot in London (of course) if memory serves. Though it could have been a US concern on location.

I've heard of Hustle. Drawing a blank on the others.

As for why I care, I think the question is rather why the rest of you don't. It just seems ludicrous to me to freely give fame and a large paycheck to a British actor when you could just as easily give it to an American one.

And as I've said, or at least intimated, there's nothing these actors are doing that Americans can't. Particularly for the roles we are talking about in this thread.

Let's consider... Tom Cruise for a moment. Does anyone really think you couldn't flip through a rolodex of actors and pick one that could play in Mission Impossible? Or any of a number of other movies he's been in?

The script and the production are the thing. And the same with any of the Superhero/comic book movies (which I understand have been the most profitable sector of movie making for a few years now).

So I'm saying, all things being equal, or considering the fact that who you cast doesn't really matter (as long as they have the right look and can "act"), give the money, give the career advancement to an American.

It's nationalism. It's mercantilism of a sort. And I am totally comfortable and approving of these sentiments.

So where did this data come from? Does that Guinneas magazine carry movie stats, like it does for music?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If we think of the movie studios centered in America as merely reflections of the BBC, but in America, your criticism makes a lot of sense. If, on the other hand, we think of it as the top level that either just happens to be in America or is here because America serves as a good incubator for creative endeavors, then it makes perfect sense that it would serve as a magnet for top talent worldwide.

Unless there are a lot of studios in other countries exporting their movies worldwide to 9 and 10 figure box office totals, Hollywood is the world's movie center and it's actually the nationalistic thing to keep that centered here with all the jobs it entails rather than making a huge deal out of what nationality is starring in it.

Edit: In the interest of full disclosure, I'm generally not disturbed by importing skilled labor. It's a net gain to the US productivity if we reap the benefits of their education and don't have to pay for it. Acting is a little different, but I'm pretty sure the smaller roles (i.e. the ones that will actually determine whether somebody gets a job as opposed to the superstars) are still overwhelmingly American.


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Maybe I'm alone in this, but could we take the "Nationalism Actor Casting" conversation to a new thread?


Hmmm got curious and looked up the premise of these works you mentioned.

The Honorable Woman - Spy stuff

Hustle - Con men stuff (my god they got that many seasons out of it?)

The Fall - Serial Killer/Police stuff

Mr Selfridge - After looking this up, I realize I watched this for a few minutes once. A department store magnate? Just before WWI? The British TV market really is different.

Not sure what to say. Things that deal with topics like this don't pique my interest at all. Sorry I didn't know they even existed.


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Berinor wrote:


Edit: In the interest of full disclosure, I'm generally not disturbed by importing skilled labor. It's a net gain to the US productivity if we reap the benefits of their education and don't have to pay for it.

The problem with that is that the world is awash in surpluses of skilled labor.

What actually happens is that H1B visas are issued, for example, and the existing labor force finds itself replaced by cheaper labor, and finds its potential earnings curtailed versus what they would be in a market where this wasn't possible. All so that Microsoft and Facebook have a better bottom line for their Satanic Code Mills.

There is literally nothing (not even the common example of doctors), that requires an advanced degree or professional training that isn't in surplus in the developed world (kind of curious term, but I got nothing better).

And actually there is an argument that countries such as the US "braindrain" countries that train people to be doctors, then see them emigrate to the US (or UK) for higher earnings.

That said, there are other aspects of your argument that you aren't considering.

One is that we have a surplus of people like physicists and engineers. And have had for a long time. Every year people are doing their last postdoc at Fermilab and realizing "That faculty job somewhere? That... that isn't going to happen, is it."

Another is that the native born population finds opportunities for advancement curtailed because of the fact that the limited number of niches are already filled. In this case, they never bother to go through the credentialing process that the physicist I mentioned above went through. An example of this is employing Idris Elba on The Wire. Fat chance anyone from Baltimore gets a gig like that in England.

Now you can pull examples of atypical geniuses, and this is commonly referenced in arguments like this: Einstein, Von Neumann, Kurt Godel, etc. But they are uncommon, and even in periods where it was much more difficult to immigrate to this country, they were allowed in.

(As an aside check out Canada's official policies for legal immigration. You just are not emigrating there unless you are an actuarial benefit to that country. Or you do it illegally, claim you are a refugee, or just plain put a wad of cash down in an investment in Canada. And yes they have actual Canadian dollar amounts you can look up.)

But the whole developed is suffering from underemployment, and it is an increasing challenge to deal with it. Automation, laissez faire trade policies, and the like have contributed to it.

Well except for Asian nations. They never bought into all this free trade stuff, and are happily pursuing nationalistic trade policies.

Well the wealthy ones are.

Dark Archive

sunbeam wrote:
The keyword is Ditko.

I think the word your looking for is "LSD".


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P Craig Russel puts Ditko to shame when it comes to Doctor Strange, but I guess that's "Anti-Ditto."

Sovereign Court

Aaand I've stop reading anything you write from now on...


Hitdice wrote:
P Craig Russel puts Ditko to shame when it comes to Doctor Strange, but I guess that's "Anti-Ditto."

P. Craig Russel is awesome and I've never liked Ditko on anything since the old Dr. Strange days, but those days were great. The energy & imagination (or LSD, if you will) in those early Stranges haven't been matched.

Dark Archive

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Hitdice wrote:
P Craig Russel puts Ditko to shame when it comes to Doctor Strange, but I guess that's "Anti-Ditto."

Russell's art is fantastical and beautiful, and was very appropriate for Strange. Ditko definitely had some trippy otherworldly vistas, 'though.

I still haven't found whatever artist I was thinking of for the magical special effects. Maybe I'm tripping and it was Dr. Fate or Arion that had the whacky colorful geometric spell effects?


sunbeam wrote:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ditko+doctor+strange&biw=1600&bih=7 40&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwigpuzw5Yj KAhWG2yYKHVx1DRMQsAQIGw

The keyword is Ditko. It's been close to 50 years since he worked on this title, but he is still considered the great artist on this character.

There have been some other artists who have done really neat things with the character over the years... and some who haven't done as good a job.

I don't remember his name, but in the early 70's there was an artist on the title that did the psychedelic illustrations pretty well himself. Only thing is his Strange was muscular (like all the other Marvel characters for the most part). I've always preferred the more slight Doctor Strange.

Strange is definitely not the tropic weakling Wizard. Even TSR recognised it in MSR by designating one of his talents as Martial Arts.


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sunbeam wrote:
ShinHakkaider wrote:

Robert Downey Jr. (an American last time I checked) was the lead in a VERY British movie with a VERY British Character. In fact TWO movies...

Maggie Gyllenhall starred last year in the critically acclaimed british mini-series THE HONORABLE WOMAN.

Robert Vaughn was in HUSTLE.

Jeremy Piven is the lead MR. SELFRIDGE.

GIllian Anderson is the lead in THE FALL.

There are American actors in british productions but being as the US Entertainment industry dwarfs the UK one considerably I'm not surprised that there are more of them working here than us working there.

What's your source for this? I caught one a few years ago with Robert Downey playing... Sherlock Holmes. I'm guessing that was an English production, looked like it was shot in London (of course) if memory serves. Though it could have been a US concern on location.

I'm sorry..What's my source? My own eyes I guess.

As in I've actually SEEN both Sherlock Holmes movies? Directed by a British director (Guy Ritchie) about a British fictional character. In fact aside from Dr. Who and King Arthur I'm not sure there is a more British fictional character out there. And he's played by an American.

I've seen THE HONORABLE WOMAN as it was available on Netflix.
I've seen more than a few episodes of HUSTLE as it was also available on Netflix at one point.
I've seen both seasons of THE FALL on Netflix.
MR. SELFRIDGE is also available on Netflix (havent watched this as I'm not a fan of Jeremy Piven at all).


thejeff wrote:
Hitdice wrote:
P Craig Russel puts Ditko to shame when it comes to Doctor Strange, but I guess that's "Anti-Ditto."

P. Craig Russel is awesome and I've never liked Ditko on anything since the old Dr. Strange days, but those days were great. The energy & imagination (or LSD, if you will) in those early Stranges haven't been matched.

Have you read What Is It That Disturbs You, Stephen? Not to turn this into a comics thread rather than a movie thread, but the energy and imagination outdoes anything I've seen by Ditko.


That's nice.

Got a link to anything a little more tabular?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

sunbeam wrote:

That's nice.

Got a link to anything a little more tabular?

Have you heard of IMBD? It literally lists every actor in every role in movies, TV, and voice work. There's no need to quote sources for who was in what, it's all there.


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ShinHakkaider wrote:


As in I've actually SEEN both Sherlock Holmes movies? Directed by a British director (Guy Ritchie) about a British fictional character. In fact aside from Dr. Who and King Arthur I'm not sure there is a more British fictional character out there. And he's played by an American.

There is another one. Another British fictional character, I mean. Some spy, goes by the name of Bond, James Bond.

also, it doesn't matter what nationality Cumberbatch is. the question is, is he the right actor for the role? the answer, of couse, is 'yes, he is' and his body of work notonly proves that, but Marvel Studio's casting history shows us, that - early missteps aside - they always chose the right actors.

I also want to add to this whole discussion that this is more or less an international message board with people from all over the world posting here. nationalistic America-first propaganda feels a little out of place for me. no matter how pretty Donald Trump's wig is

Liberty's Edge

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Remember when this thread used to be about the new Doctor Strange movie?
That sure was an interesting thread ...

Oh well ...

Sovereign Court

To me it's just a little sad and incredibly close minded.


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Hama wrote:
To me it's just a little sad and incredibly close minded.

In some ways I sympathize. I try to buy local where I can and American when I can't. I think it's good practice to support your own countries business when possible - particularly smaller ones. Enlightened self interest, if you will.

But movie stars seems a strange hill to die on. There are a lot of jobs I'm far more concerned about than who gets the big-money Hollywood ticket.

Liberty's Edge

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thejeff wrote:
Hama wrote:
To me it's just a little sad and incredibly close minded.

In some ways I sympathize. I try to buy local where I can and American when I can't. I think it's good practice to support your own countries business when possible - particularly smaller ones. Enlightened self interest, if you will.

But movie stars seems a strange hill to die on. There are a lot of jobs I'm far more concerned about than who gets the big-money Hollywood ticket.

Especially since the location of production is more important economically than the nationality of the actors.

Dark Archive

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Krensky wrote:
thejeff wrote:
But movie stars seems a strange hill to die on. There are a lot of jobs I'm far more concerned about than who gets the big-money Hollywood ticket.
Especially since the location of production is more important economically than the nationality of the actors.

That is a good point. If all three to five of the 'stars' of the show are foreign, but it's set in New York or Los Angeles, then hundreds, if not *thousands* of Americans are going to get employment from that movie.

If every star is American, but it's set in South Africa or Hungary or whatever, then it's not exactly a great win for America, since a few extremely rich Americans got a little bit more extremely rich, but the USA didn't exactly make out on the deal.

So, back to the threat topic of Dr. Strange, and Marvel movies in general, I suppose it's convenient from a 'supporting the USA' point of view that most Marvel characters, regardless of their country of origin, are mostly USA based. (Dr. Strange, for example, starts out with some Tibetan stuff, but primarily operates out of Greenwich Village, New York, and adjacent dimensions...) Purely foreign teams, like Excalibur and Big Hero 6, are less likely to get live-action films.

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

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Set wrote:
Purely foreign teams, like Excalibur and Big Hero 6, are less likely to get live-action films.

Damn, now I want to see Captain Britain & MI16-movie.


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Excalibur. One of the weirdest super hero teams ever.

Scarab Sages

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Marc Radle wrote:

Remember when this thread used to be about the new Doctor Strange movie?

That sure was an interesting thread ...

Oh well ...

Well, now you're just talking crazy. Why else would someone create a thread titled "Doctor Strange" in the Movie section, unless it was to discuss the VAST INJUSTICE OF.....whatever they're b!$~$ing about?

Scarab Sages

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In finally rewatching Antman last night, I seem to recall some talk about the so-called Quantum Realm from that movie showing up in Doctor Strange. I have to wonder if it will be a significant part of the film, just a part of his training, or perhaps just a way to tie more of the cinematic universe together (i.e. perhaps a post credit scene of Hank Pym asking Doctor Strange for help in searching for his long-lost wife....).


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Aberzombie wrote:
In finally rewatching Antman last night, I seem to recall some talk about the so-called Quantum Realm from that movie showing up in Doctor Strange. I have to wonder if it will be a significant part of the film, just a part of his training, or perhaps just a way to tie more of the cinematic universe together (i.e. perhaps a post credit scene of Hank Pym asking Doctor Strange for help in searching for his long-lost wife....).

IIRC, the Quantum Realm was used as an example how the more trippy stuff in Dr. Strange will be handled, BUT I recall a couple of interviews with Feige where he stated that they were looking into quantum theories to explain the magic in Strange

Scarab Sages

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Hythlodeus wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
In finally rewatching Antman last night, I seem to recall some talk about the so-called Quantum Realm from that movie showing up in Doctor Strange. I have to wonder if it will be a significant part of the film, just a part of his training, or perhaps just a way to tie more of the cinematic universe together (i.e. perhaps a post credit scene of Hank Pym asking Doctor Strange for help in searching for his long-lost wife....).
IIRC, the Quantum Realm was used as an example how the more trippy stuff in Dr. Strange will be handled, BUT I recall a couple of interviews with Feige where he stated that they were looking into quantum theories to explain the magic in Strange

Indeed. However, with Feige now saying the Amulet will have some unspecified time-related powers, coupled with the bit in Antman about the Quantum Realm and its weird time relationship, I was thinking Strange could be the key to returning Janet to the real world. Hank said in the movie he'd been pursuing a rescue through science for ten years after Janet's disappearance - could be he'd want to finally pursue a non-science route.


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Hythlodeus wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
In finally rewatching Antman last night, I seem to recall some talk about the so-called Quantum Realm from that movie showing up in Doctor Strange. I have to wonder if it will be a significant part of the film, just a part of his training, or perhaps just a way to tie more of the cinematic universe together (i.e. perhaps a post credit scene of Hank Pym asking Doctor Strange for help in searching for his long-lost wife....).
IIRC, the Quantum Realm was used as an example how the more trippy stuff in Dr. Strange will be handled, BUT I recall a couple of interviews with Feige where he stated that they were looking into quantum theories to explain the magic in Strange

I really hope they don't try to "explain" the magic in Strange with some kind of pseudo-scientific hand-waving. It's magic. Deal with it.


thejeff wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
In finally rewatching Antman last night, I seem to recall some talk about the so-called Quantum Realm from that movie showing up in Doctor Strange. I have to wonder if it will be a significant part of the film, just a part of his training, or perhaps just a way to tie more of the cinematic universe together (i.e. perhaps a post credit scene of Hank Pym asking Doctor Strange for help in searching for his long-lost wife....).
IIRC, the Quantum Realm was used as an example how the more trippy stuff in Dr. Strange will be handled, BUT I recall a couple of interviews with Feige where he stated that they were looking into quantum theories to explain the magic in Strange

I really hope they don't try to "explain" the magic in Strange with some kind of pseudo-scientific hand-waving. It's magic. Deal with it.

like this?


Hythlodeus wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
In finally rewatching Antman last night, I seem to recall some talk about the so-called Quantum Realm from that movie showing up in Doctor Strange. I have to wonder if it will be a significant part of the film, just a part of his training, or perhaps just a way to tie more of the cinematic universe together (i.e. perhaps a post credit scene of Hank Pym asking Doctor Strange for help in searching for his long-lost wife....).
IIRC, the Quantum Realm was used as an example how the more trippy stuff in Dr. Strange will be handled, BUT I recall a couple of interviews with Feige where he stated that they were looking into quantum theories to explain the magic in Strange

I really hope they don't try to "explain" the magic in Strange with some kind of pseudo-scientific hand-waving. It's magic. Deal with it.

like this?

Nah, that level doesn't bother me.


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Krensky wrote:
thejeff wrote:
There are a lot of jobs I'm far more concerned about than who gets the big-money Hollywood ticket.
Especially since the location of production is more important economically than the nationality of the actors.

O. M. G.

I'm now having a positive thought about Adam Sandler's production company...

...No, wait, I successfully killed it. Whew!

Scarab Sages

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New concept art sees Doctor Strange at home in his Sanctum Sanctorum

Includes a shot of a tweeted set photo!!!


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Aberzombie wrote:

New concept art sees Doctor Strange at home in his Sanctum Sanctorum

Includes a shot of a tweeted set photo!!!

Well... Darn. Now /all/ my arcane casters are going to need some sweet digs like that.


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I am more familiar with this Dr Strange


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
I am more familiar with this Dr Strange

Ok, that was awesome!


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From what I understand he isn't a top tier character, but he is dangerous in the right hands. Which is any character to me, but whatever.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Reminds me of Karas in Tatsunoko vs Capcom.

Liberty's Edge

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I still want to see Howard, Squirrel Girl, and Deadpool vs Dan, Pheonix, and um... Some other Capcom joke character.

Scarab Sages

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The Martian's Benedict Wong joins Doctor Strange as, well...Wong

A good actor. And another wonderful character added to the cast. It just wouldn't be Dr. Strange without his partner.


Aberzombie wrote:

The Martian's Benedict Wong joins Doctor Strange as, well...Wong

A good actor. And another wonderful character added to the cast. It just wouldn't be Dr. Strange without his partner.

hmm.

We'll see how this pans out. I am not expecting ebony white-levels of stupidity, but it could easily misfire.

Scarab Sages

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Freehold DM wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:

The Martian's Benedict Wong joins Doctor Strange as, well...Wong

A good actor. And another wonderful character added to the cast. It just wouldn't be Dr. Strange without his partner.

hmm.

We'll see how this pans out. I am not expecting ebony white-levels of stupidity, but it could easily misfire.

It'll probably involve some humor. Marvel seems to like using supporting cast for that. But I wouldn't be surprised if they give him a bit of martial arts-ing to do. I just wonder if they're going to make him shave his head.

Otherwise, I trust the movie franchise runners to not f#$& it up too much.

ignores Iron Man 3

Scarab Sages

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Aberzombie wrote:


ignores Iron Man 3

I'll just point out that I loved Iron Man 3. It was much stronger than Iron Man 2, and I actually thought the bait and switch with the Mandarin worked well.

Sovereign Court

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Iron Man 3 was an excellent film.

Liberty's Edge

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Imbicatus wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:


ignores Iron Man 3

I'll just point out that I loved Iron Man 3. It was much stronger than Iron Man 2, and I actually though the bait and switch with the Mandarin worked well.

Especially with the follow up short.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The follow up short was amazing.

Scarab Sages

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Imbicatus wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:


ignores Iron Man 3

I'll just point out that I loved Iron Man 3. It was much stronger than Iron Man 2, and I actually thought the bait and switch with the Mandarin worked well.

moves Imbicatus to the List of People to be Eaten First during the Zombiepocalypse

I can never forgive that movie for wasting Sir Ben Kingsley. Even if the way they wasted him was totally f*&@ing awesome.

Plus, Pepper getting super powers was just stupid*. Not to mention, the complete idiocy of they way they did Extremis.

*This opinion (which is correct, by the way) may be partially based on my utter and complete hatred of that extraordinarily creepy-ass Gwyneth Paltrow chick.


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How did this turn into an Iron Man 3 thread? BY THE EYE OF AGAMOTTO!!

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