Character concept: an NPC fighter-rogue who's an enforcer for the local Thieves Guild. "Shank" is a neutral evil half-orc whose job is to cut people who have crossed the Guild. I have five levels to play with; right now I'm thinking Ftr 2 / Rog 3 with the Knife Master archetype.
I see a couple of possibilities here. One is a two-weapon fighter with a knife in each hand. The -2/-2 penalty is painful, but at the end of the day he still comes out ahead, and there's the pleasant chance of hitting twice for 2d4+4d8 of damage. Another would be a Cad fighter / dirty trick specialist; he strikes first to blind an opponent, then goes to town with the SAs. Tempting, but requires the (hawk, spit) Combat Maneuvers feat tax. Either way, probably Quick Draw for flavor... he got started as an enforcer in prison, where he showed a knack for concealing weapons, pulling them out suddenly, and sliding them into someone else's vital organs. In a perfect world, he'd also have some way to subdue enemies instead of only killing them -- so that he could conceivably capture a PC if things ever reach that point -- but that may be a bit much to ask for a 5th level character.
Thoughts?
Doug M.
Well, first you want to use Unchained Rogue. That gives him Weapon Finesse and Dex to damage with his chosen weapon.
The Knife Master rogue archetype is almost compatible with Unchained rogue, besides the fact that Trap Sense, gained at 3rd level and replaced by Knife Master, isn't the same as Danger Sense. also gained at 3rd level.
Shouldn't be too hard to rule that the archetype works.
Seeing as how you want to take two levels in fighter, the Unbreakable fighter gives him two flavorful feats from his time in prison (Endurance and Die Hard), as well as a +1 Will save on mind-affecting effects.
Not sure what feats you're looking for, exactly, and there are probably people better than me to give you advice on the nonlethal/capturing aspect.
Straight bounty hunter slayer would probably work best.
Would going a level into Snakebite Striker Brawler hurt?
Unchained Rogue is, as far as I know, compatible with all regular Rogue archetypes. Danger Sense counts as Trap Sense for the purposes of archetypes and stacking, so you shouldn't have any problems there.
Sap Adept/Sap Master are pretty powerful feats for a knockout-type character. If you have Improved Unarmed Strike, Knockout Artist might also be (almost) viable.
Quickdraw is an unnecessary flavor feat- Improved Initiative or ranks in Sleight of Hand might also cover what you're trying to do.
I'd recommend getting cronies to flank for you, instead of being so self-reliant. At 5th level, solo Sneak Attacking doesn't have enough support.
bigrig107 wrote: Well, first you want to use Unchained Rogue. That gives him Weapon Finesse and Dex to damage with his chosen weapon. Yeah, good point. Unchained changes everything, doesn't it...
Quote: Seeing as how you want to take two levels in fighter, the Unbreakable fighter gives him two flavorful feats from his time in prison (Endurance and Die Hard), as well as a +1 Will save on mind-affecting effects. I like it! Thank you.
Doug M.
And top it off with a level of Expert for skilzs.
Seriously, just go Slayer. It's a better fighter/rogue than a fighter/rogue.
Imbicatus wrote: Seriously, just go Slayer. It's a better fighter/rogue than a fighter/rogue. Yes, very likely so. But it can't do Knife Master, and I really like the Knife Master for this.
Doug M.
Then how about a Slayer 4/Knife Master 1?
With Accomplished Sneak Attacker you have 3d8 sneak attack damage on each knife. You also get studied target, you can take a ranger combat style feat to bypass Dex prerequisites for Two-Weapon Fighting, and with the Bounty Hunter archetype you can choose to forgo sneak attack damage for free dirty trick attempts with a +3 bonus. If you feel like it, you could even take Deific Obedience (Pharasma) to shore up the two-weapon fighting penalties and help land more dirty tricks.
Avoron wrote: Then how about a Slayer 4/Knife Master 1?
With Accomplished Sneak Attacker you have 3d8 sneak attack damage on each knife. You also get studied target, you can take a ranger combat style feat to bypass Dex prerequisites for Two-Weapon Fighting, and with the Bounty Hunter archetype you can choose to forgo sneak attack damage for free dirty trick attempts with a +3 bonus. If you feel like it, you could even take Deific Obedience (Pharasma) to shore up the two-weapon fighting penalties and help land more dirty tricks.
Nice, but... keep in mind that this is an NPC, facing a group of 3rd-4th level PCs. I want him to be have a shot at surviving the encounter; I want him to be memorable if possible. But I'm not optimizing for maximum damage output. An SA for d4+3d8+4 is average 20 damage; if he takes TWF and hits twice, he can drop any PC in the party in one round. I have no objection to putting PCs in danger of death, but I'd prefer to wait until a boss encounter before I make death outright likely. (I learned a painful lesson about this with a redcap NPC a while back. He had fighter levels, so I built him as a critfisher. He critted *twice* with x4 damage and killed two sixth-level PCs, bam bam. Getting them raised derailed the campaign for an entire session.)
So I'd rather have him doing something cool and/or dramatic that will endanger, inconvenience or annoy the PCs, as opposed to simply maximizing damage output. Dirty tricks are good; maybe making him a dirty trick fighter is the way to go here.
Doug M.
If the character is by himself and doesn't have two-weapon feint, the chances of him getting those sneak attacks off are quite small. After the surprise round, no one is flatfooted and he wont have anyone to flank with.
If he is going to have mooks, that changes things, but not much.
Douglas Muir 406 wrote: So I'd rather have him doing something cool and/or dramatic that will endanger, inconvenience or annoy the PCs, as opposed to simply maximizing damage output. Dirty tricks are good; maybe making him a dirty trick fighter is the way to go here. That's why bounty hunter slayer is so great. They can swap out their sneak attack damage for free dirty trick attempts. The only reason I suggested a focus on increasing sneak attack damage is that it's the main benefit of a Knife Master dip. Straight slayer would be excellent at inconveniencing the PCs.
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